Why is there rarely anything in 1/72 for WWII??? All of HM new WWII stuff is 1/48, especially in the single engine Department. I happen to be in the market for a Hurricane MKI and it looks like Corgi is my only bet (and I wasn't very impressed with the Spit MKI I bought from them).
All I see in the future is yet another clone of the ME-110E (Waspen Markings, which I will get) but seriously why is there so little choice?
While longstanding rumor has it that we may have seen the last of or close to the last of HM 1/72 WW2 stuff, or at least single engine stuff (1/72 dauntlesses with a rrp of over US$60...), let's be grateful at least that HM has given us some lovely medium attack/bombers. In fact, for the US collector, about the only "major" (that term is of course subjective) WW2 multi-engine aircraft not yet made in diecast are the B-29 and the Hudson, and that's not bad.
Additionally, with the E2, maybe, just maybe HM will produce more larger birds as well.
And let's also be grateful that HM continues to produce quality 1/48 ww2 stuff (though some of us wish they would stick to the more exotic and interesing rather than the usual suspects - my guess is that Zero and P-38 are waiting in the wings).
yes, please, either from HM or corgi (if the latter stops betting its future on rhodesian canberras and the like)
Last edited by FortunateSon; 11-13-2014 at 09:51 AM.
While longstanding rumor has it that we may have seen the last of or close to the last of HM 1/72 WW2 stuff, or at least single engine stuff (1/72 dauntlesses with a rrp of over US$60...), let's be grateful at least that HM has given us some lovely medium attack/bombers. In fact, for the US collector, about the only "major" (that term is of course subjective) WW2 multi-engine aircraft not yet made in diecast are the B-29 and the Hudson, and that's not bad.
Additionally, with the E2, maybe, just maybe HM will produce more larger birds as well.
And let's also be grateful that HM continues to produce quality 1/48 ww2 stuff (though some of us wish they would stick to the more exotic and interesing rather than the usual suspects - my guess is that Zero and P-38 are waiting in the wings).
yes, please, either from HM or corgi (if the latter stops betting its future on rhodesian canberras and the like)
But Why? Dragon and Witty are gone, as I believe are GA.
The only real competition in the 1/72 market is Corgi and Oxford and IMHO HM is better than both.
I simply don't have the space for 1/48. I am not on a budget, but $90 per model that's starting to get pricey.
While longstanding rumor has it that we may have seen the last of or close to the last of HM 1/72 WW2 stuff, or at least single engine stuff (1/72 dauntlesses with a rrp of over US$60...), let's be grateful at least that HM has given us some lovely medium attack/bombers. In fact, for the US collector, about the only "major" (that term is of course subjective) WW2 multi-engine aircraft not yet made in diecast are the B-29 and the Hudson, and that's not bad.
yes, please, either from HM or corgi (if the latter stops betting its future on rhodesian canberras and the like)
First I have heard of that rumour?? More accurately HM (specifically Skymax) have moved away from 1:72 single engined stuff aimed at the Blighty market. Thats not a rumour, thats from the UK importer/distributer.
I still think the PTO stuff such as the Hellcat/Helldiver/Avenger are still likely to trickle out.
As for twins:
the A26 will move to the K MKs for S.E. Asia,
the ME110 will continue......hopefully HM will continue to release schemes not requiring mottling,
the Beau is just about done and I think the tooling will be, at the very least rested for quite a while...if not done completely, and
the A20 will continue as their still are some great schemes to do such as the all black G and 88 SQN with invasion stripes.
As for the above Ventura/Harpoon....I hope not. Would much rather the Hudson. Mind you...the RAAF and RAF operated the the Ventura, so all is not lost if HM go down that route.
Hobby Master 1/48 Air Power Series
HA8602
Hawker Hurricane Mk.I P2961, Flying Officer W.L. McKnight, DFC and Bar, No 242 (Canadian) Sqn.,
RAF Coltishall, Dec 1940
Production Limited 1,000 Units
April 2015 Release
Please note: My photographs of the model are on the “overexposed” side of things. For truly accurate photos please refer to Ed’s (Agent X20) excellent photos that better represent the actual colour of the model.
This aircraft is from the renowned Squadron Leader Douglas Bader's 242 (Canadian) RAF Squadron, 1940. "LEA" was piloted by William Lidstone "Willie" McKnight, a Canadian in the RAF.
"Willie" Mcknight was the first Canadian ace and the country's fifth-highest scoring ace of the Second World War. McKnight joined the RAF in early 1939 and served in No. 242 (Canadian) Squadron RAF during the final phase of the Battle of France, covering the Allied retreat from Brittany, and later the Battle of Britain. McKnight's aircraft wore a distinct cartoon of a jackboot kicking Hitler on the port side of the engine cowling. His Hurricane also carried a human skeleton image which held a sickle in its hand under the cockpit, on both sides of the aircraft. McKnight scored 17 victories, as well as two shared and three unconfirmed kills. McKnight was shot down and killed on 12 January 1941 during a fighter sweep over Calais.
Willie McKnight was born in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada but grew up in Calgary. For those who have ever been at the Calgary International Airport (YYC) - McKnight Boulevard was named in his honour.
242 Squadron's Eric Ball, Douglas Bader & Willie McKnight admire their unit's unofficial motif
McKnight was a Medical Student before the War and used that training to paint Skeletons on the port and starboard sides of his aircraft.
"McKnight's Hat Trick" by Michael Martchenko
On this day, August 30, 1940, following hard fighting, S/L Bader tucked in alongside his wingman, "Willie" McKnight as they returned to base. The exuberant Bader held up two fingers indicating his two victories. The Canadian flashed back three indicating a "Hat Trick". Bader was elated. The squadron that day claimed a total of 12 enemy A/C destroyed without loss to themselves. The tide of the battle was turning.
The Model
The model is just stunning in my opinion. Compared to previous rendition’s of MckNight’s Hurricane, the Markings are far better researched and executed. Photos not previously available have been used to reproduce the Skeletons and the "Kicking Hitler" motif. The artwork alone for this release went through nine separate renditions before the details were made right.
The Gunsight ahead of the cockpit is a bit over scale. If it was made much smaller however it would too easily be broken. Of Note is that Corgi's 1/72 and even 1/32 Scale Hurricanes neglected this feature entirely.
There have been some who have been critical of the length of the nose on Hobby Master’s tooling. The introduction of the Merlin XX engine for the Mk. II added 7 inches to the length (all ahead of the firewall). This is about 2 or 3 millimeters in 1/48 Scale. I also believe that those critics are confusing late model Mk.Is with early model Mk.Is. The line drawing below demonstrates that the difference between a late model Mk.1 and a Mk.II is really negligible in that area. .
Overall, I like this model a great deal and easily recommend it for your collections. A great addition to anyone's Canadain, RAF, or Battle of Britain themes.
Image from Hurricane in Action Squadron - Signal Publications No.72
Gorgeous model. Camo colours look pretty accurate. I’m not a Hurricane expert but doesn’t the spinner look a bit too bulbous? Shouldn’t it be a bit more pointed? At least based on the archival photos I’ve seen so far.
During 1940 most Hurricanes were modified with new "constant speed" Rotol Propellors.
The distinctive feature of this was the less pointy bulbous spinner which contained the hydraulic actuated mechanism that would constantly change the angle or "bite" of the propellor blades (essentially similar to a car "upshifting gear" as the vehicle gains speed).
On this day, August 30, 1940, following hard fighting, S/L Bader tucked in alongside his wingman, "Willie" McKnight as they returned to base. The exuberant Bader held up two fingers indicating his two victories. The Canadian flashed back three indicating a "Hat Trick". Bader was elated. The squadron that day claimed a total of 12 enemy A/C destroyed without loss to themselves. The tide of the battle was turning.
Note that the "McKnight's Hat Trick" painting by Michael Martchenko has the Port underwing in Sky whereas the HM model depicts it black.
The colour transition from the black/white recognition undersides of the Battle of France to all Sky took place starting in July 1940, so the painting is correct for August 1940. The black Port underwing was introduced in December 1940.
Since McKnight was shot down and killed on 12 January 1941, the model depicts the aircraft from the period December 1940-Jan 1941.
I've been looking forward to this model and it looks like HM have done a very good job all told. The colours look great. I don't think there should be any stencils on the props (a minor error if so). The extremity of the nose looks a bit more like a Mk.IIB than a Mk.I but what the heck - it looks like a Hurricane!
I think it is a humorous comment on the issues with the HM Hurricane nose and prop spinner that are clearly wrong for a Hurricane Mk 1. Clearly a sense of humour failure with some people.
There's an old saying, if you can't take a joke you shouldn't have joined
Oh Dear,...hands up, eyes wide open and innocent with the exclamation "who me"???
Who said anything about whether it was a joke or not??? In fact I alluded that it was entertaining watching DAF7 types make such comments.
I mean do you deny veracity of the components of my post Tony?? Its noted that you avoided that piece, instead reverting the issue back on me.
Thats not normally your game Tony. Normally you are more than happy to stand by your comments as opposed the jelly like response above. You could have noted the two mm difference between the MK I and II in the snout for example. You know talk about the model. Still. I guess the picture is an improvement over pictures of dog poo that is normally your method.
I tell you what, there is a couple dullard woollies who are very good at ignoring the premise of a post in order to change the subject when they cannot deal with a point of view that they disagree with. Or more often its to ignore history and context, similar in method to your post.
If thats the road you now want to go down, I am certain they will be more than happy to mentor you.
Last edited by PBRStreetgang; 05-27-2015 at 04:14 PM.
By of explanation, the model represents a MK I Hurricane, but its actually a MK II Hurricane tooling. The difference, in 1:48 scale is 2 mm on the snout.
The spinner mentioned above, well I think its a silly comment because there is a picture of the spinner and model together in this thread, and to be frank they are pretty close.
The reason HM accepted the risk with the MKII tooling is that there is much more capacity in the tooling than the MKI. Including Nightfighters and the Desert tank busters such as IIb and IIc.
Its only the rivet counters who can tell the difference and 2mm is the price to pay for the tooling.
As I noted before, its the DAF7 who have the most negative stuff to say over the tooling. And you will never hear a counterview or rational for HM's decision...regardless on whether you think its a good one or not. Mind you the excuses and BS from the DAF7 justifying Corgi snafus is longer than the MAGNA CARTA.
Whats going over on DAF on the subject is, well,....remarkable. But as I alluded to in response to Tony's post.....and in the context of what has happened in the past with manufacturers other then Corgi releasing Blighty iconic models, regardless of scale,............completely predictable.
I cannot spot the incorrect 2mm, wouldn't bother me one jot if this was a model I was looking to buy - but the bulbous spinner looks naff IMPO.
The 2mm issue looked worse on the bigger Corgi 1/32 Hurricanes but again it didn't stop me having a few of those brutes
As for the stencilling on the HM prop blades, guess that could be removed with a cotton bud & some nail varnish remover as they dont seem to feature in any pics of wartime Hurris?
Other those minor points the rest of the model looks nicely executed
There's an old saying, if you can't take a joke you shouldn't have joined
There's another old saying: if you can't tell a joke, don't.
All seriousness aside, I think it's a rather well executed Hurry. Personally I'd favor one with a regular spinner, but that's just because I am interested in having only 1 in my collection. For the avid Hurricane / WW2 collector this is a very good addition. 1/48 is the best scale for these anyway.
I cannot spot the incorrect 2mm, wouldn't bother me one jot if this was a model I was looking to buy - but the bulbous spinner looks naff IMPO.
The 2mm issue looked worse on the bigger Corgi 1/32 Hurricanes but again it didn't stop me having a few of those brutes
I forgot about that, and in the context of above thats a very funny post. Makes you wonder what the point of the original post (**** up Hurri) and follow-up posts was for in the first place?
Just purchased the pair of these Hurricanes. Of the two, 02 is clearly the one to get.. not because of the artwork on the side but becauase of the half-black underside. As far as I can tell, HM only made one Spitfire with a half black underside (that one had theother half white) and that one has certainly skyrocketed in value. Meanwhile, while there's nothing wrong with the 01 hurricane, HM has already announced three more pretty samey ones and in all likelihood after they pour out a few more in the same general BoB-esque schemes, including perhaps a few with some famous ace names attached to them, the market for these will bottom out and they'll dump badly. I bought 02 at something close to full price and 01 at deep discount already.
Meanwhile, all this hurri-thinking got me thinking about how many great quite novel schemes we can have yet to see from this mould. I don't know how versatile HM is as far as producing the various marques goes, but the hurri has a lot more interesting schemes than we sometimes give it credit for, especially when you add the Sea and SEA (see what i did there?) variants into the mix.
Will be nice to see what HM come up with. Hopefully the UK 1/48 market won't collapse as has been predicted, since these are crasking little models.
For the life of me though I can't remember whether FM produced Sea Hurricane 7*L a la the Corgi 1/32 and 1/72 releases and, if they did, whether I have it already!
They at least released one. FAA 800 SQN if I recall. An OP Torch livery, with early US markings on it. From memory this was due to avoid confusion with Vichy French aircraft.
To be frank, its the Malta and Desert Airforce Hurricanes that I am looking forward too. Particularly the cannon armed variants that the HM tooling suits.
I have been eyeballing the McKnight Hurricane for a while and finally picked one up at a Labor Day sale today, $71 and change, free shipping. Couldn't pass it up.
I have to agree with Dan, it is stunning. I actually like the variable speed prop spinner. As mentioned it's the only one with black and white undersides too. Looking at the various HM Hurricanes this is the one that stands out so far, and with the artwork on the sides.
Being mostly a 1:72 collector there hasn't been much to buy.
I haven't bought but a few of the HM 1:48's, and if only one I try to pick the best of each. This one is the best so far IMHO.
I too am looking forward to the possible desert/ Malta versions etc. Particularly the Tank Buster with a Vokes tropical filter and 40mm's.
I saw McKnight Hurricane, so I had to stop by for a look . . .
Hmmmm. First impression is there is no more detail on this 1:48 model than what I would find on any of my Corgi 1:72 Hurris. To me, that is a missed opportunity. I see nothing has changed over the years.
Movin' on . . .
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Last edited by Upkeep; 09-06-2015 at 07:38 PM.
Reason: sp
I saw McKnight Hurricane, so I had to stop by for a look . . .
Hmmmm. First impression is there is no more detail on this 1:48 model than what I would find on any of my Corgi 1:72 Hurris. To me, that is a missed opportunity. I see nothing has changed over the years.
Movin' on . . .
I like my 1/72 Corgi version. But the Corgi version has poorly researched markings (the same weird looking skeleton on the port side and starboard, and a strange representation of Hitler - with yellow pants!). Also the Corgi is missing various stencils, has a way oversized antenna mast and is missing the gunsight entirely. This makes Hobby Master the clear winner.
You missed my point, Dan. It's not about Corgi vs HM. It's simply my observation on the state of 1:48 as demonstrated by this HM model.
I haven't looked in on the 1:48 WWII diecast world for quite some time. The last time I did, most of the category I saw seemed to be largely looking like 1:72 models 'enlarged' with precious little physical detail amounting to little more than what is on 1:72 models. There may be exceptions that elude me, but this is how it appears. I was hoping things may have changed and physical detail was starting to be present, but I guess not.
I still don't see enough difference in physical detail to warrant my getting involved in 1:48 diecast, that's all.
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Last edited by Upkeep; 09-07-2015 at 08:21 AM.
Reason: sp
So is it save to say that if you want better detail & quality from you models, in this case the Hurricane, you should go with the larger 1:48 scale & go with HM because they produce a more detailed & accurate version of the Hurricane than for example Corgi...??
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I WANT TO BELIEVE...
...that one day I will see many more colorful JC Wings MD-11 models and the long-awaited Gemini 200 TWA twin stripes 727-200!
I always fly America's favorite airline: Southwest Airlines and the World's oldest KLM!
Pariswas the greatest city on earth! Vive la France! Tokyo 2020!
So is it save to say that if you want better detail & quality from you models, in this case the Hurricane, you should go with the larger 1:48 scale & go with HM because they produce a more detailed & accurate version of the Hurricane than for example Corgi...??
Yes, this is how I understood it. Got any 1.48 models yet?
Yes, this is how I understood it. Got any 1.48 models yet?
Hell no, I'm more into 1:72 scale but this 1:48 Hurricane is very tempting indeed looking at the pictures, might have to really think about purchasing it...
__________________
I WANT TO BELIEVE...
...that one day I will see many more colorful JC Wings MD-11 models and the long-awaited Gemini 200 TWA twin stripes 727-200!
I always fly America's favorite airline: Southwest Airlines and the World's oldest KLM!
Pariswas the greatest city on earth! Vive la France! Tokyo 2020!
So is it save to say that if you want better detail & quality from you models, in this case the Hurricane, you should go with the larger 1:48 scale & go with HM because they produce a more detailed & accurate version of the Hurricane than for example Corgi...??
Yes, it is a logical assumption that at a larger scale, greater amounts of physical detail can be achieved. That doesn't mean they will be achieved though, and in this case, the model leaves me wondering what I'd be paying all this money for other than an 'enlarged' version of a 1:72 one. A couple of accuracy improvements on the Hitler motif? Hmmmmm. Did anyone consider drilling the backs of the exhaust pipes to add depth???? Nooooooo. They're just like my 1:72 ones.
Regardless, I do consider the 1:48 scale in WWII diecast (and much of the 1:32 scale as well) as opportunities missed. Why? My guess is manus don't want to invest in, and collectors don't want to pay. For those like me, it will have to be 'kit-land' and 'custom-city'.
And before I do get my coat, here's an interesting fact. For years I collected 1:72 WWII aviation diecast and eventually gave much of it up due to lack of detail and too many panel 'trenches', and moved DOWN to 1:200 to get the magic of physical and surface detail that I was looking for. Every now and again, I pop my head up into the larger scales to see if there is any improvements. Nothing to see here.
Now truly, I'm movin' on . . . .
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Last edited by Upkeep; 09-07-2015 at 04:26 PM.
Reason: sp
Yes, it is a logical assumption that at a larger scale, greater amounts of physical detail can be achieved. That doesn't mean they will be achieved though, and in this case, the model leaves me wondering what I'd be paying all this money for other than an 'enlarged' version of a 1:72 one. A couple of accuracy improvements on the Hitler motif? Hmmmmm.
Regardless, I do consider the 1:48 scale in WWII diecast (and much of the 1:32 scale as well) as opportunities missed. Why? My guess is manus don't want to invest in, and collectors don't want to pay. For those like me, it will have to be kit-land.
Now truly, I'm movin' on . . . .
No not just the Hitler and skeleton artwork that is much much better.
As I mentioned there is the additional detail of the gunsight, more refined antenna mast and additional stencils. The fabric covered empennage is also much better represented on the Hobby Master version. The cockpit is also detailed on the 1/48 with instrument panel and control stick which the sealed up canopy on the Corgi doesn't even allow for viewing.
No not just the Hitler and skeleton artwork that is much much better.
As I mentioned there is the additional detail of the gunsight, more refined antenna mast and additional stencils. The fabric covered empennage is also much better represented on the Hobby Master version. The cockpit is also detailed on the 1/48 with instrument panel and control stick which the sealed up canopy on the Corgi doesn't even allow for viewing.
Dan
I don't know how to make this any clearer, but I'm disappointed with the scale in general, not necessarily this model. But for the size, those 'details' are not very impressive. They're expected.
Again, if I want detail, I'll have to continue to look elsewhere and add them myself. If you are satisfied with what 1:48 in diecast offers, then so be it, enjoy, and live long day.
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I don't know how to make this any clearer, but I'm disappointed with the scale in general, not necessarily this model. But for the size, those 'details' are not very impressive. They're expected.
Again, if I want detail, I'll have to continue to look elsewhere and add them myself. If you are satisfied with what 1:48 in diecast offers, then so be it, enjoy, and live long day.
It would help if you explained exactly what details 1/48 lacks in your opinion.
What additional details would you like to see. After all, by definition 1/48 should be somewhat a scaled up version of 1/72 should it not?
I mainly collect 1/72, but for single engine WWII fighters 1/48 is much more impressive scale in my opinion.
Had a little time to spend with the Hurricane model today. Really is an impressive bit of diecast in that you can actually get a really good feel of how the Hurricane, as a design, was smack in between the 1930s and 1940s with bits of pieces of modern clean design and bits and pieces of things that may well have been on a westland wapiti here and there.
The mould represents a lot of practical intelligence that HM has gained as their designers have learned to make models better and better. This includes well fitting landing gear and a surprisingly large number of concealed plastic parts. it's also nice and hefty.
The skeleton nose art looks good in photos and seems to be better represented than in the corgi version surely. but in practice it looks a bit cartoony and if i was assured that HM would produce another Hurricane with a half-black underside I'd probably skip this one in favor of a plainer one, but this is at best a small personal preference.
There is a surprising amount of tampo on the model including under the horizontal stabilizers. Interestingly, there is no black-on-black tampo on the understide of the starboard wing - does anybody know if it should have been there or did the blackening process result in the overpainting of factory-applied stencils?
The nose area is a work of art - yes, it's ugly but that arrangement of bulbous nose and protruding spinner swashplate or whatever it's called was ugly. HM's effort matches period photos about as well as one could expect.
As mentioned, the non-hollowed out exhausts are an issue, but they always have been on HM models an in fact on most diecast 1/48 models.
A cushion seems to be missing for behind the pilot's head - unless i missed it. Seems this might have to be scratchbuilt, but then again, what HM cockpit doesn't benefit from detailing?
An alternative (open) canopy is provided. One of my FM's is missing a canopy, so I will try to work that in there.
---
general musings on 1/48 vs 1/72:
yes, 1/48 is better for single-engined ww2 types, but this means generally that you won't find larger aircraft in the same scale.
1/48 doesn't always mean a better or more detailed model. Dragon's 1/72 corsairs and Fw190s, while imperfect (especially the latter) look better than HM's. Sometimes, working in small scale actually allows the designers to get better detail in thanks to the way they can take advantage of various "scale effects."
That said, this HM model does make me want to sell my corgi' 1/72s, even though by in large they are not bad.
I worry what a can of worms this has opened. There are a ton of hurricane liveries to be done. A lot of them will be boring an de rigeur where some famous ace flew in hurricanes for a few months before moving on to his more famous mount, but there are also a heck of a lot of really good liveries to be done.
then agani, there are a ton of excellent p47 (especially razorback) liveries to be done too, and HM has done precisely none of them and i worry they won't given how poorly the P-47s have apparently been selling. PTO P-47s and Sea Hurricanes, please!
Hobby Master HA8601/8602 Hawker Hurricane 1/48 Scale
Re: Hobby Master HA8601/8602 Hawker Hurricane 1/48 Scale
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