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Old 11-05-2011, 12:51 PM   #1
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Default Pan Am TV Show

Those of you who watch Pan Am would know that the casting of the Flight Engineer is an Indian bloke. I was always under the impression that during the 60s, there were very Asian pilots and only white people can travel on airlines. Is this TV show drama or were there actually Asian pilots in Pan Am during the 60s?
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Old 11-05-2011, 05:19 PM   #2
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Default Re: Pan Am TV Show

No clue, but this is a drama, not a re production, so probably not 100% the same.
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Old 11-05-2011, 06:26 PM   #3
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Default Re: Pan Am TV Show

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Those of you who watch Pan Am would know that the casting of the Flight Engineer is an Indian bloke. I was always under the impression that during the 60s, there were very Asian pilots and only white people can travel on airlines. Is this TV show drama or were there actually Asian pilots in Pan Am during the 60s?
Actually, there were a number of non-white flight crew members during that time, but none made it to captain. Usually they were flight engineers. Few black pilots were accepted since there were very few black pilots at all. Much of it had to do with educational opportunities, not so much racial policies, although they were there. With FAs it was a little different. They had to be "exceptionally presentable", and since most of the passengers of the time were white (flying was expensive then as now), the airlines felt that white female attendants would make the passengers feel more comfortable. Few black women applied until the late '60s/early '70s. A more racially tolerant attitude emerged from the '60s. Martin Luther King, the militant Black Power movement and the removal of "Jim Crow" laws in the South helped that.
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Old 11-05-2011, 06:53 PM   #4
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Default Re: Pan Am TV Show

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Those of you who watch Pan Am would know that the casting of the Flight Engineer is an Indian bloke. I was always under the impression that during the 60s, there were very Asian pilots and only white people can travel on airlines. Is this TV show drama or were there actually Asian pilots in Pan Am during the 60s?
Flight Engineer or Air Navigator?

INS was not around in 1963 - should be a four man crew to be accurate.

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Old 11-05-2011, 07:21 PM   #5
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Default Re: Pan Am TV Show

ACpilot, the crew fly a 707, so it's a 3 man crew. I don't think there were navigators on those jets were there?
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Old 11-05-2011, 07:41 PM   #6
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Default Re: Pan Am TV Show

No navigators. It was a three-man crew always.
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Old 11-05-2011, 10:48 PM   #7
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No navigators. It was a three-man crew always.


My Father was a Navigator on B707s so I don't think you are familiar with the facts.

The first Inertial Navigation Systems entered service in 1968 which made Human Navigators obsolete. As airlines purchased INS systems Navigators continued on but were out of a job with most airlines by the mid 1970s. Since the Pan Am TV series takes place in 1963 a Navigator would have been part of the four man crew. There was no way to cross the Atlantic or Pacific without a Navigator prior to 1968.

After 1968 B707s began to fly with 3 man crews as INS was implemented.

See this link for video of a Pan Am B707 with her four man crew in 1969 on a special INS proving flight.

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...d.main/189695/

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Old 11-05-2011, 11:41 PM   #8
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My Father was a Navigator on B707s so I don't think you are familiar with the facts.
If your dad was a navigator on a 707, I guess I can't dispute that. Apparently the information I've read about 707s is for more modern versions. I know the crews in the older prop jobs was large, including a communications officer, FE, 2nd officer/navigator, first officer/co-pilot and captain. I had assumed the FE had navigation duties pre-INS on DC-8s and 707s.
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Old 11-06-2011, 10:46 AM   #9
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If your dad was a navigator on a 707, I guess I can't dispute that. Apparently the information I've read about 707s is for more modern versions. I know the crews in the older prop jobs was large, including a communications officer, FE, 2nd officer/navigator, first officer/co-pilot and captain. I had assumed the FE had navigation duties pre-INS on DC-8s and 707s.
Both the Nav and the FE were busy on Oceanic crossings. The FE would have been responsible for keeping the fuel balanced, running the pressurization system, adjusting Cabin temperature and keeping a log of all the engine parameters at regular intervals. The Nav would constantly be taking Star Shots, updating ETAs and fuel remaining for future waypoints as well as providing the pilots with position reports (includes calculating the inflight winds) to be communicated via HF radio to ATC. In addition the Navigator would have completed the flight plan manually before each and every flight - determining the total flight time and fuel required for the flight (this would take a couple of hours to complete during the crew's flight planning after the Weather briefing which would determine Alternates, etc).

I guess that the producers of the Pan Am TV show figure they can get away with one less paid actor especially since even most Aviation minded types are unaware of the four man crew.

Dan

Last edited by ACpilot; 11-06-2011 at 10:56 AM.
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Old 11-06-2011, 11:20 AM   #10
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Default Re: Pan Am TV Show

Haha, good on ya AC! I guess you learn something new everyday. I'll keep staring at the captain and ignore this factual error (he is SOOO good looking)! *Blush*
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Old 11-06-2011, 11:34 AM   #11
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Default Re: Pan Am TV Show

I'm thinking the show is going more for the story than getting everything 100% factual.
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Old 11-06-2011, 09:54 PM   #12
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Default Re: Pan Am TV Show

I agree, this is more of a show where you traveling back in time with the crew. I remember watching them land in Kai Tak and all I was thinking about was how they got all their timings wrong. For example, when they saw the checkerboard they kept arguing as the plane flew straight forward. By the time they turned, the plane would have been way too far out to make the turn to the runway but they somehow did it! Also, they didn't receive their landing clearance until the plane had visuals of the checkerboard. I always thought the pilots receive clearance upon entering Kowloon Island.
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Old 11-23-2011, 12:41 AM   #13
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Default Re: Pan Am TV Show

I just watched the latest episode (Medical Diversion to Haiti) and a new character was introduced temporarily replacing Sanjit. He was introduced as a Navigator. So it appears that Sanjit is supposed to be a Nav and the Flight Engineer is the missing crew position.

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Old 11-23-2011, 01:27 AM   #14
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Somebody is still watching this show?
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Old 11-25-2011, 08:01 AM   #15
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Default Re: Pan Am TV Show

I have watched 3 episodes and it does have a soap opera feel to it. Perhaps the producers felt too much technical stuff will cause audiences to switch off.

Certainly I find documentaries on airliners more interesting than fictional dramas.
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Old 11-25-2011, 09:16 AM   #16
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I have watched 3 episodes and it does have a soap opera feel to it. Perhaps the producers felt too much technical stuff will cause audiences to switch off.

Certainly I find documentaries on airliners more interesting than fictional dramas.

I agree, but the clips of the aircraft are qutie good! Even though they are made on a computer Lol
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Old 11-25-2011, 09:49 AM   #17
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Indeed I have noticed the tell tale CGI effects. I suppose the series could be more interesting if it delved into the history of Pan Am, it's rivalry with other airlines for instance. Perhaps portraying a Juan Trippe viewpoint.
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Old 12-10-2011, 02:23 PM   #18
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Anyone know why it's not showing on BBC anymore?
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Old 12-10-2011, 02:31 PM   #19
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Anyone know why it's not showing on BBC anymore?
Maybe because somebody at BBC actually watched an episode and realized what a steaming pile of crap it is.
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Old 12-10-2011, 02:49 PM   #20
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Maybe because somebody at BBC actually watched an episode and realized what a steaming pile of crap it is.

That's harsh. Each to their own. I like it!
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Old 12-10-2011, 03:35 PM   #21
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That's harsh. Each to their own. I like it!
BBC America made a statement about British television during its station breaks that went something like, "We lost our Empire, we suck at tennis, our food is lousy, but our shows are the best". I have to agree. British telly gives our programmers better ideas than they can come up with on their own. The only thing I've seen on BBC that takes an idea from us is "Law and Order: UK". Pretty good cop show, once you get past the wigs.
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Old 12-10-2011, 04:18 PM   #22
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BBC America made a statement about British television during its station breaks that went something like, "We lost our Empire, we suck at tennis, our food is lousy, but our shows are the best". I have to agree. British telly gives our programmers better ideas than they can come up with on their own. The only thing I've seen on BBC that takes an idea from us is "Law and Order: UK". Pretty good cop show, once you get past the wigs.

Everything you said, I agree with! Even the wigs
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Old 12-10-2011, 04:21 PM   #23
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I have watched 3 episodes and it does have a soap opera feel to it. Perhaps the producers felt too much technical stuff will cause audiences to switch off.
"Desperate Stewardesses"?
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Old 12-10-2011, 06:41 PM   #24
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BBC America made a statement about British television during its station breaks that went something like, "We lost our Empire, we suck at tennis, our food is lousy, but our shows are the best". I have to agree. British telly gives our programmers better ideas than they can come up with on their own. The only thing I've seen on BBC that takes an idea from us is "Law and Order: UK". Pretty good cop show, once you get past the wigs.
Interesting you mention this. We just started watching the British Comedy-Drama "Doc Martin". This show is excellent and I have been very happy to find it. American TV has had so much crap on this season.

IIRC, Pan Am's been canceled. Even my wife who like the first couple of episodes, said it went downhill very fast.
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Old 12-10-2011, 07:46 PM   #25
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Interesting you mention this. We just started watching the British Comedy-Drama "Doc Martin". This show is excellent and I have been very happy to find it. American TV has had so much crap on this season.

IIRC, Pan Am's been canceled. Even my wife who like the first couple of episodes, said it went downhill very fast.
Not surprised in the least. It seems like TV script writers run out of ideas pretty quickly...they can present an excellent pilot and maybe two or three episodes to sell the show, then they throw their hands up and start writing garbage. That, the fact that even decent shows are being cancelled in mid-season, the continuous onslaught of idiotic commercials that last longer than ever, and that seasons are now only running 10 - 13 episodes...with a mid-season break...have all forced me to stop watching network television altogether. I watch BBC America and a few cable channels occasionally, but now I mostly watch Hulu and Netflix. Mostly Netflix, since Hulu is slowly giving way to commercials unless you want to pay for the premium service.
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Old 12-10-2011, 08:00 PM   #26
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Not surprised in the least. It seems like TV script writers run out of ideas pretty quickly...they can present an excellent pilot and maybe two or three episodes to sell the show, then they throw their hands up and start writing garbage. That, the fact that even decent shows are being cancelled in mid-season, the continuous onslaught of idiotic commercials that last longer than ever, and that seasons are now only running 10 - 13 episodes...with a mid-season break...have all forced me to stop watching network television altogether. I watch BBC America and a few cable channels occasionally, but now I mostly watch Hulu and Netflix. Mostly Netflix, since Hulu is slowly giving way to commercials unless you want to pay for the premium service.
Yeah, we are watching Doc Martin on Netflix. But, I pay for Hulu Premium, and even it has commercials. All Hulu Premium gets you is more programming. I fear it won't be long before Netflix starts adding commercials.
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Old 12-11-2011, 05:18 AM   #27
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Doc Martin is a great show!
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Old 12-11-2011, 10:46 AM   #28
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Doc Martin is a great show!
I enjoy Doc Martin because there are some elements of the John Cleese's Basil Fawlty character in him. Only the Doc, is a brilliant doctor, like House, who resolves medical issues. The charters in the small seaside village on Doc Martin also remind me somewhat of Fawlty Towers and add to an interesting storyline. The running joke of the dogs that hound Doc Martin is also hilarious.
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Old 12-11-2011, 03:11 PM   #29
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I enjoy Doc Martin because there are some elements of the John Cleese's Basil Fawlty character in him. Only the Doc, is a brilliant doctor, like House, who resolves medical issues. The charters in the small seaside village on Doc Martin also remind me somewhat of Fawlty Towers and add to an interesting storyline. The running joke of the dogs that hound Doc Martin is also hilarious.
Hilarious show, too bad it only had a few episodes. "Basil and the Rat" was my favorite episode. One classic: The opening shot, which always shows the marquee in front of the hotel rearranged by vandals...one time instead of reading "Fawlty Towers", it read "Flowery Tw@ts".
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Old 12-11-2011, 07:09 PM   #30
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Anyone know why it's not showing on BBC anymore?
There should be 22 Episodes and we have just had Episide 8, so what's happened to Episode 9? I read that a 2nd 14-part series is being made and will start to be screened next month.
I enjoy it for what it is and do not expect too much as far as accuracy goes, some nice CGI 707 shots and of course that was Travolta's 707 dressed up for the part in the last episode on the ground in Haiti.
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Old 12-11-2011, 07:51 PM   #31
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Indeed I have noticed the tell tale CGI effects. I suppose the series could be more interesting if it delved into the history of Pan Am, it's rivalry with other airlines for instance. Perhaps portraying a Juan Trippe viewpoint.
Yes I agree it would have been better and maybe they schould have shown how she died a slow death due to mismanagement!!!
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Old 12-12-2011, 02:51 PM   #32
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There should be 22 Episodes and we have just had Episide 8, so what's happened to Episode 9? I read that a 2nd 14-part series is being made and will start to be screened next month.
I enjoy it for what it is and do not expect too much as far as accuracy goes, some nice CGI 707 shots and of course that was Travolta's 707 dressed up for the part in the last episode on the ground in Haiti.

I agree with you 100%. I don't watch it for it is. We don't get may aviation related shows anymore. Can't believe it not getting show! Can't find it in the planner at all! Nothing!
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