eBay/Paypal question

wu6fiend · 09-12-2012, 12:25 AM

I recently won a model on eBay, but when it arrived, it was not as advertised.

The seller offered either a refund if I returned the model, or 1/2 back if I kept it.

As I had no use for it, I have returned it to him.

Now, he has sent the following email to me (keep in mind English is not his 1st language)

"can you please close the case in Ebay,
so that they give the money free at paypal than I will return it to you."

What is the usual process here? Why would I "close the case" in advance of getting my refund?

What does he mean "so that they give the money free at paypal"?

I need some advice...

gospodin · 09-12-2012, 01:13 AM

If you "close the case" ie, give him his feedback, he won't be obligated to pay you anything. I'm not sure what he means, but you should just tell him to send the money and that you will give him a good feedback when he does. Anything else, and it may be a fight to get your refund, if you get it at all.

SuperKungFu · 09-12-2012, 01:45 AM

I think he meant that if you close the case, ebay and paypal would refund the commission fee? I'm not sure...

Regardless...you get your refund first BEFORE closing the case or leaving feedback because that is your only leverage.

leoteo · 09-12-2012, 04:05 AM

You didn't describe it in details so I may be wrong here. But my guess is that that seller hasn't been selling on Ebay for very long, i.e. less than a couple of months. If that is the case, then Paypal has been holding off your money, and he was honest when he said that he had no access to the money yet. In my opinion, just close the case temporarily and let him act first. You can always open the case again if he doesn't. Ebay and Paypal always work out in favour of the buyers. Dont worry

. Just don't leave him feedback before getting the refund.

ELY707 · 09-12-2012, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leoteo

You didn't describe it in details so I may be wrong here. But my guess is that that seller hasn't been selling on Ebay for very long, i.e. less than a couple of months. If that is the case, then Paypal has been holding off your money, and he was honest when he said that he had no access to the money yet. In my opinion, just close the case temporarily and let him act first. You can always open the case again if he doesn't. Ebay and Paypal always work out in favour of the buyers. Dont worry

. Just don't leave him feedback before getting the refund.

Once a case is closed, you can't open it again.
Wu3fiend, I hope you have a tracking number for the returned parcel because the seller can easily say he never got it back and without a tracking number Paypal won't refund you.

ALEXAKOS · 09-13-2012, 03:46 AM

If you close th case you loose all your rights AND the money!

Close the case ONLY AFTER you have received what you two have agreed upon

JeffinMass · 09-13-2012, 08:45 AM

If you "close the case" without a dispute, that means the seller is at fault and will refund your purchase. Your better of doing that and moving on.

Jeff

wu6fiend · 09-13-2012, 11:03 AM

The seller is not new to eBay, he is very experienced, and has great feedback.

So far, no refund. But the model is not expected to reach Germany until mid next week.

I have not escalated the claim yet, but am waiting to see if he does the right thing.

I have no intention of closing the claim in advance of my refund.

wu6fiend · 09-20-2012, 02:42 AM

I escalated my claim with eBay, we will see what happens with that. So far, no refund.

On a more positive note, I received a mint condition replacement 747, which is now sitting proudly atop my cabinet. Not the most detailed model, I acknowledge, but it is the bold Pan Am script, which is my favorite.

Hopefully eBay will rule in my favor...

wu6fiend · 09-23-2012, 01:10 AM

Latest update: eBay says my claim is "on hold" and they will announce their decision on Sept 23 (tomorrow). No refund yet. I provided eBay with all the shipping details, to prove I sent the model back.

So far, in all the purchases I have made online, I have only had 2 negative experiences. I wonder if this will be #3.

I have not left the seller any feedback yet. He has not responded to my request for a refund in a couple of weeks now.

wu6fiend · 09-24-2012, 12:43 AM

Not good news. Ebay says my dispute has been "closed", as a resolution has been reached. They say I returned the item "without authorization" and did not provide tracking information. Ergo, they are unable to help me. The seller is completely silent, and will not refund my money.

However, the seller did authorize me returning the item. In his email (via eBay) he gave me two options: keep the model and he would refund half, or return it. And he provided his full name and address so I could do just that.

And with regard to the tracking information, I responded to eBay with a scan of both the Canada Post invoice and the customs document, to prove that I sent the item.

My only conclusion is that the person assigned to this dispute does not read what is sent to them, or did not look at the email exchange.

Once a dispute has been "closed" it cannot be reopened. So I guess my good luck streak on eBay ran out. I have looked (in vain) for a way of contacting eBay and Paypal, but it is just a series of "is this your problem? then do this..."

Anyone have any ideas? I sent the seller one more email, appealing to him to issue a refund. Not holding out a lot of hope though.

ALEXAKOS · 09-24-2012, 03:32 AM

Oh yes... You are not to send back the item before the seller (ONLY through ebay messages) or Ebay aproves the returning of the item. And always with tracking number.

I have had 4 cases escalated and always won them . (3 times as a buyer and 1 time as a seller). I suppose I am also lucky for that cause ebay is not always correct on there decisions. I have seen similar things go down with friends and they lost the claims although they were right.

Seller will now not give you a refund if the case is closed. Unless he gets enlightened by a greater force and gives you your item money back and not the postal.

Good luck there

wu6fiend · 09-24-2012, 09:25 PM

I have always communicated with the seller via eBay, and he clearly told me that it was ok to send the model back. He gave me his full name and address so I could do just that.

I also provided eBay with all the Canada Post paperwork, to prove I sent the model.

I fear that you are right (with the dispute now closed, not in my favor), that the seller has no reason (other than Karma or a Higher Power) to refund my money.

The seller did respond to my latest email to him, and says the model has not been received, and that when he gets it, he will refund my money.

So maybe things will work out. I'm going to write it off to experience if it doesn't.

I pointed out all of the above to eBay, but my email produced no response. Once they make a decision, wrong or right, that is that.

Rex · 09-24-2012, 09:35 PM

I'm afraid your luck had run out on this one. I'm pretty sure your seller had bailed out and is not obliged to do anything about it now that that case had been closed by Ebay itself. However I still hope for the best for you. Karma will be a *****. It's just too bad these stupid sellers will take advantage of buyers.

I have been a fan of Ebay, but after having fed up with crap like fraudulent sellers, I just backed away and spent my money else where. I think it's okey for you to mention the Seller's Ebay name here to minimize the risk of other members having to make transactions with this fraudulent seller. You'll be doing us a favor, to think twice before purchasing anything from this guy!

wu6fiend · 09-24-2012, 11:55 PM

I've been reluctant to publish his name, as I still hold out hope for a positive resolution. He currently has 12 items for sale. All 12 items are diecast model cars, so unless a DAC member also collects those, he/she is safe.

I'll give it another week, and see what happens. No result by then, I'll put his name and eBay store name on DAC, just as a warning for others.

My wife says, "I bet that model plane gets relisted!"

This whole experience has definitely made me much more leery about buying overseas (specifically Europe).

24r · 09-25-2012, 07:07 AM

Unfortunately with E-bay the small packet receipt(customs form) and the receipt does not have any tracking information. I am assuming that you had put the value of the model on the small packet form. If you did open a claim with Canada Post that the parcel has not been received. They do not have a way to confirm delivery. I did this once when I knew an e-bayer had received his model but claimed he did not. E-bay would not accept the small packet documents as well. So opened a non delivery case with Canada Post and got my money back that way. Hope this helps you.

Mark

robertjon5 · 09-25-2012, 07:15 AM

must say i am REALLY surprised you did not win your case. the seller CLEARLY mis-described the model!! saying it was mint, and it wasn't. as you say leave it a week and see what happens. if nothing, then leave him NEGATIVE feedback. stating he 'said model was mint, and it was yellowed. refused refund'. if he sees that, he may then offer a refund, in exchange for changing his negative feedback. he CANNOT leave negative feedback for you, only positive, or neutral.

wu6fiend · 09-25-2012, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 24r

Unfortunately with E-bay the small packet receipt(customs form) and the receipt does not have any tracking information. I am assuming that you had put the value of the model on the small packet form. If you did open a claim with Canada Post that the parcel has not been received. They do not have a way to confirm delivery. I did this once when I knew an e-bayer had received his model but claimed he did not. E-bay would not accept the small packet documents as well. So opened a non delivery case with Canada Post and got my money back that way. Hope this helps you.

Mark

This does help, Mark, and I thank you. This is something that had not occurred to me. I will check with Canada Post in a week (parcel was mailed on September 10, so 18 days from Canada to Germany should be more than sufficient time, I should think).

And Robertjon, thank you too, and I will leave him negative feedback.

24r · 09-25-2012, 11:32 PM

Ok for international from Canada you have to wait 45 days to file a claim with Canada Post. Just tell them the parcel was not received they will ask some basic info from your receipt and have the fill address and e-mail of the person you sent it to. Do not worry they do not e-mail the person. I know from previous claims on delivery parcels. Good luck with it.

Mark

hugo · 09-26-2012, 03:54 AM

with all this talk about ebay and paypal it is worth remembering that some buyers - in particular from the USA are less than perfect
examples in the last few days

Buyer took a month to send payment and when he did, sent a US Postal Money Order IN US dollars that can only be cashed in the USA - UK Banks etc won't touch them - so that's a payment gone wrong - believe it or not there are other currencies and Paypal despite their fees can exchange $ to £. He has the model - I don't have the payment in a usable format and he doesn't answer emails about this matter.

Buyer received a model that had the undercarriage broken (he says) It was OK when it left here but we agreed a refund as "he didn't want to send it back" so he had repaired it (OG model from Herpa) - immediately paid the refund and of course he then gives a neutral on ebay (that might effect fees and discounts so it matters)

Trying to get a response from buyers in the US is a nightmare as they never seem to read emails. I am almost coming round to banning buyers from there - some of more trouble than they are worth.

rant over - but please be aware there are bad buyers out there as well as bad sellers

24r · 09-26-2012, 05:29 AM

Hugo I know what you mean. Shipping time to the USA from Canada can still take 7-10 days. I have buyers asking where is my model after 2 days after shipping out the model. They file a claim that model has not been received. Usually within the week case closed model arrived.

Rex · 09-26-2012, 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hugo

with all this tak about ebay and paypal it is worth remembering that some buyers - in particular from the USA are less than perfect
examples in the last few days

Buyer took a month to send payment and when he did, sent a US Postal Money Order IN US dollars that can only be cashed in the USA - UK Banks etc won't touch them - so that's a payment gone wrong - believe it or not there are other currencies and Paypal despite their fees can exchange $ to £. He has the model - I don't have the payment in a usable format and he doesn't answer emails about this matter.

Buyer received a model that had the undercarriage broken (he says) It was OK when it left here but we agreed a refund as "he didn't want to send it back" so he had repaired it (OG model from Herpa) - immediately paid the refund and of course he then gives a neutral on ebay (that might effect fees and discounts so it matters)

Trying to get a response from buyers in the US is a nightmare as they never seem to read emails. I am almost coming round to banning buyers from there - some of more trouble than they are worth.

rant over - but please be aware there are bad buyers out there as well as bad sellers

From what I understand, you shipped out before you got the money from buyer? Bad move!
We all learn from our mistakes. ! There's a saying: No money, no honey!

hugo · 09-26-2012, 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rex

From what I understand, you shipped out before you got the money from buyer? Bad move!
We all learn from our mistakes. ! There's a saying: No money, no honey!

Correction - I waited until the Postal Money Order arrived - normally postal orders in US$ can be handled by the bank - fees are enormous of course - but this order specifically states on the back "Negotiable in the US and Possessions only" hence my bank won't touch it - and it is supposed to be an international and worldwide bank!

They suggest I return it - the PMO, to the sender who can cash it and send payment properly but he doesn't answer emails!!!!

ELY707 · 09-27-2012, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hugo

Correction - I waited until the Postal Money Order arrived - normally postal orders in US$ can be handled by the bank - fees are enormous of course - but this order specifically states on the back "Negotiable in the US and Possessions only" hence my bank won't touch it - and it is supposed to be an international and worldwide bank!

They suggest I return it - the PMO, to the sender who can cash it and send payment properly but he doesn't answer emails!!!!

So you sent the model out before cashing the money order?

ELY707 · 09-27-2012, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 24r

Hugo I know what you mean. Shipping time to the USA from Canada can still take 7-10 days. I have buyers asking where is my model after 2 days after shipping out the model. They file a claim that model has not been received. Usually within the week case closed model arrived.

A claim of non-receipt cannot be opened before a cetain time lapse.

hugo · 09-27-2012, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ELY707

So you sent the model out before cashing the money order?

normally postal orders in US$ can be handled by the bank - and postal orders do not bounce as they are prepaid! Unfortunately there is a difference between a postal order (of which I have received many) and a USPS Postal money order which is restricted to the US

24r · 09-27-2012, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ELY707

A claim of non-receipt cannot be opened before a cetain time lapse.

Yes I know but they file the first day they can. Usually parcel arrives within a day or two of them filing .

Mark

wu6fiend · 09-28-2012, 09:22 PM

Ok, another week has passed, and no refund. So, here are the details...

His eBay name is wolga13. His eBay store is Modellauto-Hobby.

His real name is Michael Kleinschmidt. He lives in Ostfildern, Germany.

The item was a 1/200 Herpa Pan Am 747, Herpa #550130.

It was returned to him via Canada Post on September 10. He still claims it has never arrived.

If it is relisted, be aware the fuselage is badly discolored, and the tail (particularly on the right side) is almost a tobacco color. There is no way anyone could miss this. You can see the discoloration through the plastic inner packaging. I saw it immediately, as soon as I slid the inner packaging out of the cardboard box.

I left him negative feedback, as a warning for others.

I will wait until 45 days have passed, and then talk to Canada Post.

Hopefully no DAC member will be his next victim.

doug seeley · 10-01-2012, 12:12 PM

Thanks for naming names - sometimes you must. And speaking of 'a tobacco color', the off color may indeed have been tobacco caused - lots of smoking in Olde Deutschland - no offense intended, that's just the way it is. Later, Doug

wu6fiend · 11-26-2012, 02:50 PM

Ok, 75 days have now passed, no communication, and no refund. So I opened a claim with the post office. My last resort. If that fails, I guess I will have to chalk this up to a (bad) experience.

Anyway, for other DAC members, beware this guy. I looked at his current wares on eBay, and his store Modellcar Center does have 2 planes for sale. The others are diecast cars.

Deal with him at your peril. His eBay handle is wolga13.

wu6fiend · 03-06-2013, 03:16 PM

Good news, Canada Post came through, and issued a cheque for insurance. So, I didn't lose much (just the cost of registered mail to send them the various proof I sent the parcel back to Germany). The dishonest eBay seller will get his in negative karma, I hope. Warning to other DAC members, don't deal with this guy.

24r · 03-06-2013, 05:19 PM

That is good news. Glad Canada Post came through for you. Just be aware Canada Post has now changed things. Small Packet no longer comes with insurance. For insurance now you have to choose the tracking option which is now more expensive.

N787BA · 03-09-2013, 02:34 PM

I never order from overseas on eBay, to me that spells out problems, whether it be through mailing or the seller themselves. I have had a few cases which I won as well, one being over a model plane that I just simply never received, and it was one I really wanted. Sucks to hear that things didnt work out in your favor, but you just have to be cautious to who you are ordering from and what you are buying.

JeffinMass · 03-09-2013, 03:30 PM

I order from a few Chinese vendors on ebay all of the time. It usually takes 2-3 weeks
for me to receive them here in the United States. It's like anything, go with your gut
feeling. The vendors that have lots to choose from are the one's I am going to trust the
most.

wu6fiend · 03-10-2013, 01:40 AM

I've never had any real trouble (up until this case). More than 250 purchases, some from overseas, and only 3 were not 100% perfect. One was an issue with supposed shipping damage (it was a pair of bookshelf speakers) which I repaired myself at minimal cost, and the other item was completely refunded. Then this problem. I knew it was only a matter of time. I try to only buy from 100% vendors (or close to that) and the lion's share are from North America.

This only wound up costing me about $40 in postage costs, so I'm only mildly disappointed. I just hope the dishonest vendor does not try to resell the damaged model to someone else (if he lists it, he won't show the passenger side in photos, because that is where the damage is glaringly apparent).

Speedbird 001 · 03-10-2013, 03:37 AM

Bad experience....sory for that. But one also has to keep one thing in mind (and that is not defending the dishonest seller).

I often sell to overseas, but people have the tendency to pay a lot for their items, but nothing for shipping. Simply there are only 2 ways....pay properly and get an insured parcel with tracking and good packing, or get the cheap solution and it is lost in the Nirvana. I hate it being blamed by buyers my item doesnt appear, I get punched by ebay, have to refund money and my item is lost just because people are too Scroogie to pay money for registered mail etc.

That only as a comment for the ones complaining abt overseas buyers. NO country in the world offers tracking and insurance for standard letters, so always wonder how ebay can be so absolute not of this world to expect this from sellers.....always annoys me as they leave seller completely alone in this case.

robertjon5 · 03-10-2013, 10:32 AM

well, i NEVER post anything i sell on ebay WITHOUT tracking/insurance!! if a model gets lost or damaged, i file a claim and then refund buyer once i receive it. mind you, only had to do this once on over 400 sales!! and 99.99999% of ebayers are good sellers.

Speedbird 001 · 03-10-2013, 10:37 AM

Good approach...but what do you do if your buyers only want the chepeast way. Easy one would say, I sent by standard mail and every loss or damage is on buyers risk, like it is common sense. But no, ebay blames the seller for not sending it with tracking and insurance. THIS is what I call unfair...every buyer knows that.

but TG, so far also not happened too often to me.

robertjon5 · 03-10-2013, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speedbird 001

Good approach...but what do you do if your buyers only want the chepeast way. Easy one would say, I sent by standard mail and every loss or damage is on buyers risk, like it is common sense. But no, ebay blames the seller for not sending it with tracking and insurance. THIS is what I call unfair...every buyer knows that.

but TG, so far also not happened too often to me.

i just tell them NO WAY am i posting without insurance. if not good enough DON'T BID!!! simples!!!!

POSTAGE
I WILL BE POSTING ALL MY MODELS ONLY BY RECORDED DELIVERY (1-4 WORKING DAYS) AND INTERNATIONAL SIGNED FOR (14-21 DAYS) AS I WILL NOT BE RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY LOSS OR DAMAGE.

Speedbird 001 · 03-10-2013, 10:43 AM

I would prefer that too....what I completely dislike is that mail services (same in the UK I recall) puts european sellers in big disadvantage to US sellers. Mailing is much cheaper over there than here, especially for "oversize" and insured.