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gospodin · 05-13-2007, 07:42 PM

What I said about Russia keeping German industry intact was valid. If Russia had conquered Europe, they would have had no need to relocate German industry. The fact that they did in East Germany was because East Germany was only a buffer zone for Soviet forces. If war with the west had broken out, the Russians would have sacrificed East Germany to possible tactical nukes from NATO forces. Also, they had no interest in a strong Germany. Yes, many countries commited atrocities during that time, and we're not even mentioning Japanese agression, or the American responses to it. Croatia was a willing partner of Germany, and had a mini-war with Slovenia during that time. The Hungarians and the Rumanians hated each other, and had to be kept separate by the Germans when they used them as cannon-fodder against Soviet troops. Spain bombed the Basques under Franco's rule (funny how the Basques are getting back for that with ETA). Many Russian troops were sent to gulags simply because Stalin needed slave labor to industrialize his country, and repair the damage of war. German POWs disappeared, and the West did nothing about that for fear of starting a new war. Churchill warned of the Soviet menace, but the people voted him out. The West conveniently forgave much of what happened because German scientists were so valuable. The West was also very generous in rebuilding Germany, but for a price: US domination and bases confronting the Russians. I'm not biased to US versions of the outcome of the war, I know that the US exacted a lot from Germany to become the number one power in the West. The German nation is a proud one, and unfortunately, has had leadership problems that devastated it. But think of this: if certain events had not transpired, Germany could have been dominant in Europe, Russia would have been reduced to a nation controlled by the Nazis, Britain would probably be allied by force, and America threatened by a united Third Reich Europe. It could have happened. Don, I don't mean to infer that I know what you're thinking, but by your responses and statements, that is the only conclusion I can come up with. I kind of think you don't really care what I say anyway, since the statements made by PlaneCrazy pretty much reinforce my statements about everybody being guilty of some atrocities toward their neighbors, and you agree with him, as do I. Europeans in general have had a long bloody history, as have the Chinese, the Koreans, the Mongols, the African nations, the Aztecs, on and on. This thread has been blown out of proportion from my original statements, which in retrospect, could have been more tactful. I served in Desert Shield (just before Desert Storm), and heard the bombers end the lives of thousands of Iraqis. I don't want to be part of any more wars (which, at 51, I'm not likely to anyway).

05-13-2007, 07:42 PM	#21
gospodin Diecast Blasphemer Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Ceti Alpha V Age: 52 Posts: 3,451	Re: Happy Victory Day! What I said about Russia keeping German industry intact was valid. If Russia had conquered Europe, they would have had no need to relocate German industry. The fact that they did in East Germany was because East Germany was only a buffer zone for Soviet forces. If war with the west had broken out, the Russians would have sacrificed East Germany to possible tactical nukes from NATO forces. Also, they had no interest in a strong Germany. Yes, many countries commited atrocities during that time, and we're not even mentioning Japanese agression, or the American responses to it. Croatia was a willing partner of Germany, and had a mini-war with Slovenia during that time. The Hungarians and the Rumanians hated each other, and had to be kept separate by the Germans when they used them as cannon-fodder against Soviet troops. Spain bombed the Basques under Franco's rule (funny how the Basques are getting back for that with ETA). Many Russian troops were sent to gulags simply because Stalin needed slave labor to industrialize his country, and repair the damage of war. German POWs disappeared, and the West did nothing about that for fear of starting a new war. Churchill warned of the Soviet menace, but the people voted him out. The West conveniently forgave much of what happened because German scientists were so valuable. The West was also very generous in rebuilding Germany, but for a price: US domination and bases confronting the Russians. I'm not biased to US versions of the outcome of the war, I know that the US exacted a lot from Germany to become the number one power in the West. The German nation is a proud one, and unfortunately, has had leadership problems that devastated it. But think of this: if certain events had not transpired, Germany could have been dominant in Europe, Russia would have been reduced to a nation controlled by the Nazis, Britain would probably be allied by force, and America threatened by a united Third Reich Europe. It could have happened. Don, I don't mean to infer that I know what you're thinking, but by your responses and statements, that is the only conclusion I can come up with. I kind of think you don't really care what I say anyway, since the statements made by PlaneCrazy pretty much reinforce my statements about everybody being guilty of some atrocities toward their neighbors, and you agree with him, as do I. Europeans in general have had a long bloody history, as have the Chinese, the Koreans, the Mongols, the African nations, the Aztecs, on and on. This thread has been blown out of proportion from my original statements, which in retrospect, could have been more tactful. I served in Desert Shield (just before Desert Storm), and heard the bombers end the lives of thousands of Iraqis. I don't want to be part of any more wars (which, at 51, I'm not likely to anyway). __________________ Steve When you wish upon a star, your dreams could come true. Except if it's a comet heading for Earth, then you and everybody else are pretty much hosed. Unless your wish was death by comet.