Quote:
Originally Posted by gospodin
Heavy, the Soviet Union was not poised to strike the Germans in 1939. If Stalin had goals in Europe, it would not have been until 1950 that the Russians would have felt ready to make a move on Germany. They had been quietly building their army and air force, but did not have very good discipline in their military due to the purges of the 1930's, where many of the officers were killed or sent to the gulags. The alliance that Germany proposed gave Stalin the green light to attack his neighbors early, and even so, suffered heavy losses against the Finns. US assistance during the war helped to build Russia up even more, and Russian ingenuity (along with slave labor) moved the industries to the other side of the Urals to protect them from bombing. The Russians would have gone into Europe eventually, that's true. But they would have been careful to preserve as much of German industry and society as they could to further the cause of Soviet domination and the glory of Russia. They would have terrorized Germany, broken it if Hitler had not built his own war machine. Stalin was as big a monster as Hitler ever thought about being, but he would not have annihilated Germany, it would not have served his purpose. Just as Germany would not have been able to destroy Russia, regardless of when Hitler put Barbarossa into operation. Russia is just too big. The best he would have done is to make Russia sue for peace, which was what he really wanted anyway, a helpless Russia. If the US and Britain had not already occupied a large potion of Germany, Russia would have taken all of it, and whatever other countries Stalin could get hold of. So both sides, as you pointed out, Heavy, were equally responsible for the tragedy of WWII, and either one would have been terrible if it had conquered all of Europe. Guys like Don Clipper and Hapag see only the horror the Russians inflicted, they don't see the balance of responsibility that Germany had for all of that. Like many Americans don't see what horrors the US inflicted on Native Americans, Philippinos, or the immigrants into our country. American history books don't say much about that. Reading history has opened my eyes to a lot of the things the average person knows little or nothing about. I don't claim to be an expert by any means, and I don't know it all, but I have gleaned a lot from 35 years of avid study. And I say again to those who may be offended by my comments or observations: everything I've said can be backed by books written by experts from many countries, and if they don't know history, nobody does.
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You're Obviously More Read Than Me, But Stalin Was Poised To Break The Alliance With Germany Once The Rest Of Eastern Europe Was Conqured, Stalin Wanted To Conquer Germany Too, Yes, They Would Have Left Industry Intact, But I Think Treatment Of German Captives Would Not Have Been Different, But Total Annhialation Of Key Cities & Towns Would Have.
Rape Pillage & Terrrorism Would Have Been The Same, But as You Said, Much Of That Was From Lack Of Training & Military Discipline. But That Was Late In The War When Stalin Needed To Recruit New Conscripts ("Volunteers") Just As Soon As They Donned A Uniform & Learned How To Pull A Trigger.
We Could Talk Hours On How Different The Red Army Would Be If Stalin Didn't Get Rid Of His Commanders Simply Due To Rage From Losses At Barbarossa.
I'm Also Aware Of The Finnish Victory, Thanks In Part Of The "Poorly Performing & Underarmed" Buffalo Airforce That The Finns Were So Proud Of That Somehow Annihalated The Russian Airforce. It Kept The Russian Ground Troops From Advancing Which Were Clearly Superior, But No Army Advances Without Air Support In Modern Warfare.
The Americans Hated The Air Cooled Buffalo, But They Seemed To Work Well In Colder Climates.
I Think At Least Some Americans Are Aware Of The Horrors Inflicted To The
Native Americans, But The History About The Phillippines Is Rather Hush Hush.(American-First Phillppine Republic War 1899-1902)
I Haven't Read Much On Either, But I Am Aware That The Phllipinos Were Treated More Harshly By The Americans When They Occupied The Phillipines (Until 1913) Than The Japanese Ever Did In WWII. The Americans Also Invented The Concentration Camp There. The Germans Got The Credit For That, But They Merely Adopted It.(They Read Thier History Too)
One Thing Is Certain. "History Is Written By The Victors" Or At Least That's What It Seems At Times. It's A Way Of Governments Justifying Such Actions To It's Poeple & To Cover Up The Truth. Thank God For The Freedom Of The Press In The Vietnam War.