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Originally Posted by Jetsetter
Well to start off you apparently think that Boeing forced McDonnell Douglas to let them buy them out. Remember, Douglas was in bankruptcy and was looking for a buyer. When Boeing bought them and paid off their debts, they we're entitiled to do whatever they wanted with Douglas. And the fact of the matter remains that Boeing wanted McDonnell Douglas's military engineering power (which they had a lot of), not their commerical aircraft line.
The 70,000,000 dollar difference probably comes down to development costs. It was a new plane designed from scratch and incorperated the new advances that Boeing had not yet used on other planes, IE, fly by wire. Whether this warrants that big of a price differences is not up to you or me to decide, but rather the people that are paid to work with numbers for a living.
I have absolutly no idea how you can say the 777 or MD-11 are gas guzzlers. Both were engineered in a time when fuel economics were become more obvious, especially to the airlines. In: When people said that MD-11 is gas guzzler and I do not buy to that. It is engine design that is causing poor result on an MD-11 even they have corrected all of the drag problems you're contradicting yourself. You've just said you don't believe that it's a gas guzzler, but you just said the engine design does just that. Paranoid Johnson? Or do you just hate General Electric and Pratt and Whitney?
Okay, now thats just bull****. Your blaming the 777 for these airlines bankruptcy? Maybe your still living in the Nixon era, but in case you didn't realize legacies are finding it harder to make a profit because of LOW COST AIRLINES, HIGH OIL PRICES, AN INTERNATIONAL DECLINE IN AIR TRAVEL BROUGHT ON BY A CERTAIN DAY IN SEPTEMBER, AND A ****TY AIRPORT EXPERIENCE, but not by a plane that makes up 1/75th of their fleet.
What does the 747 have to do with this? If anything your argument is that the 400 seat range of passenger capacity airliners is in the decline?
Or maybe because airlines can carry cargo on passenger aircraft as well? Dedicated freighter aircraft have never been, and most likely will never be, in such demand as one that carries both passengers and people. You can't say that there have been few orders for it because of its price because frankly you don't know. Boeing developed another freighter in addition to the 744F, whats the big deal?
There's not a great demand for MD-11's or MD-80's, because if there was then chances are McDD's Commercial division would still be around.
Parts will become a problem for the MD-11 because the MD-11 is out of production, which is thanks to the shortcomings of Douglas's sales team. New Airbuses are having trouble with finding spares but I don't see you bitching at them.
Overall the 777 won big time because it worked better for airlines. An airline is going to buy what works for them, not what seems nicer or families ties as shown by CR Smiths decision to buy the 707 rather than the DC-7, and even United, which was started by, you guessed it, Boeing. Apparently you don't have the full story because the MD-11 sold 200 frames and the 777-200 alone has sold over 400. Airlines don't give a toss if a plane is new or not, but if its going to make them more money than what the competition has to offer, then they're going to take it.
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I am full aware that McD had to sale their co and Boeing bought it. Do search on past threads.... McD managements are the one to be blame for their own screw ups which there was a great opportunities back before that MD-11 program. No need to lecture me that.
McD's military rocks! Now that is under Boeing's control. Tell me why Lockheed won biggest contract on future Fighter jets over Boeing? It looks real so crappy while Boeing's fighter looks so pretty. As Tanker dealing screw ups is a big serious damaging to Boeing which we should be concern of their capability within military's management.......Regardless it is made from a Pro-McD or Pro-Boeing!
There was lot of MD-11 debates and DavidH made a good debates. Why did not you challenge to that? DUH!?
GE is one of my favorite! Everyone in this forum knows but you and your buddy Air West? DUH! Didn't you know that RR was in the line but unfortunately it doesnt happen...... It would be interesting to see how RR fare on an MD-11? Again, There was debates regarding to the drag problems as DavidH pointed out....... Why wasnt you partipcated in that debate?
Name-changing coward? Huh?
Nothing will ever change nor convenice me that 777 burn less fuel than the MD-11 unless proven. I done lot of research and unable to find reliable answer to that. I remain unconvenice. Too vaguely on that one.
I do not personally believe that 9/11 is a sole blame for screw up the air industries. There was some incidents before to that date. It is Airliner(s)' responsibility to correct the safety to prevent such 9/11 incidents or similars. That is full of baloney. Look TSA etc etc etc have drove the air-customers away! No flying lists etc etc etc....... Government is controlling the regulation and airliners are doomed....... That is airliners' consquences for failing their responsibilities! That would have been prevented if airliners focus on safety instead paying worthless CEO that millions of money.
IMO. GodDamn, Look at ELAL!!!!!! An easy terrorist target for so many decade than any of airliners!!!! ELAL made their efforts and responsibilities to ensure that people flys safe. Why can't the US airliners? "Because nothing-big ever happen UNTIL it happens!" is within our attitude-motto?
About the 747, Ask yourself question with a seat of 400. Do it always fill every flights? No. Around 25-50% or more seats empty! 777 is a great number to offset the unnecessarily wastefulness...... 747 is no longer needed in domestic (US) flights that is because of many-schedule flight timetable among the competitors unlike it was in 70's. Japan domestic do warrant for a 747D as I have seen myself. Tokyo-Osako, A short haul flight, ALL SEATS FULL! For a 747 v.s. 777 and I would chose a 777 over 747. For a MD-11 vs 777 I chose MD-11. For the very same reason as explained above. As apparently AA, UA, and DL are using 777 internationally and rare in domestic. Suppose if SWA get "737LR" stuffs..... I would not be surprise that UA and AA will have to dump their 777 and get 737LR to compete. Boeing is currently working on 787. That would be interesting whether 777 will be around in the assemble line for another 10? 20? years after 787 especially with fuel cost. Maybe Asia's demand would be the one that still need 777.
You are so screw up with air frame numbers. After Boeing took over the McD there was so many on Options from airliners for more MD-11 and Boeing have conveniced them to opt for 764/777 because of bullsiit-safety reasons that arose among Boeing officers. (Swissair incident as example) Didn't you know that DL had 31 in options? Lufthanasa want more but Boeing prevented them from further buying. Finnair, now, want more MD-11 they regretted for not getting more. Now the tanker deal. Should I contiune?
Look at what Boeing is regretting now!?!? (I provided the source above.)
Regardless the demand, Boeing SHOULD NOT have shut down the assemble line of an MD-11 for reasons. Business,liability-bullschits, costs etc etc etc was the reasons..... Ok, Say Good Bye that tanker deal!!!! Going Airbus! See the point. If Boeing have some faith by modifying the MD-11 by correcting or modernization the wring system.... Here the sweet deal with USAF now, Allready! Even Finnair eagerly open a fat wallet for new MD-11 so would Lufthanasa. USE YOUR BRAIN! I friggling can not believe that your defending a Boeing for killing a MD-11 that Boeing allready losing BILLLLLLLIONS of dollars. Airbus is now smiling and smoking JAG's style cigar.
As soon if A-332 tanker deal should complete, Should we debate the # of airframe of 777 vs A-332?
You get all so screw up..... No, I do not blame 777 for bankruptcy UA and AA. I fired back as you stated AA and DL dumped their MD-11 for ecomonic reasons. If it is ecomonic reason then 777 would roam 3/4 % fleets around the world. Why am I seeing "How great A332/333 is than 777 and in the opposite?" Again, I am not conveinced by your comments. You happen to be a Pro-Boeing. That is Understandable......
Oh I forget..... Prejudice is within our society's attitude, What a typically.
