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Old 06-22-2005, 11:30 PM   #9
Jetsetter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHN JOHNSON
Oh my God that a kid want to deal with my pea-brain! Ok, Hey, Watermelon-brain. Care if I ask you how much are you earning? Come on! I am making way more than you are making!

I do not care what is going to happen with an 777 if Airbus buy Boeing out.

Care if I suggest? If you do not like this thread, Do not read. That is very simple. Also, Please challenge with someone regarding to market condition with such as Jim McDonald and his best buddies. I have so much to learn!

Come on....... Fess up what's in your mind......

Please pardon me, I want to ask that kiddo over the block that question.....

Market Condition......

MD-11 and 777

Price tag $130,000,000 per aircraft v.s. 200,000,000> per aircraft. $70,000,000 difference a piece.

Load factor on two of those are similar but 777 can carry more psgr in 3 classes than the MD-11

777 are rumoured to be known as gas-guzzler as well. Around 10-30% more consumpation than the MD-11! However considering the passanger load factor so 777 seem to win..... When people said that MD-11 is gas guzzler and I do not buy to that. It is engine design that is causing poor result on an MD-11 even they have corrected all of the drag problems. Blame to the engine-makers.

Let me ask you that question, Such Airliners like United and AA have excessive 777 fleets and they are struggling!!!!!! Delta deffering to buy any more of 777..... ETOP costs..... etc etc etc is making 777 costly to have.

Soon we will see the Death of 747 if this trend contiunes.I do not personally believe that 777 is a right specification as an MD-11 replacement. It is consider as the between size of MD-11 and 747. Look at those Asia-regions are buying more 777 than they are buying the 747.

Let me ask you question: After 777F unveiled..... Why don't I see 100+ in order? It is $$$$$$$$$ friggling expensive $$$$$$$$$! Just to carry a cargo of dogs****? You can buy a MD-11 for $10,000,000 to 30,000,000 depending on their age and able to fly more years!!! That makes an AAA+++ for cargoliners to make lot of money with less "plane" payments than if they own an 777F.

MD-11 remain in the best market and remain a great demand.

Soon parts will become a problem for the MD-11. Again, Thanks to Boeing!

Overall, 777 won big time is because it is ALL-NEW aircraft. MD-11 is just an another "DC-10". Suppose if MD-11 is ALL-NEW aircraft than the DC-10 at the price of $130,000,000 and better performance result than the MD-11. It will cripple the 777's success. Without a question!

Come on, I want to hear your market condition on those issues.
Well to start off you apparently think that Boeing forced McDonnell Douglas to let them buy them out. Remember, Douglas was in bankruptcy and was looking for a buyer. When Boeing bought them and paid off their debts, they we're entitiled to do whatever they wanted with Douglas. And the fact of the matter remains that Boeing wanted McDonnell Douglas's military engineering power (which they had a lot of), not their commerical aircraft line.

The 70,000,000 dollar difference probably comes down to development costs. It was a new plane designed from scratch and incorperated the new advances that Boeing had not yet used on other planes, IE, fly by wire. Whether this warrants that big of a price differences is not up to you or me to decide, but rather the people that are paid to work with numbers for a living.

I have absolutly no idea how you can say the 777 or MD-11 are gas guzzlers. Both were engineered in a time when fuel economics were become more obvious, especially to the airlines. In: When people said that MD-11 is gas guzzler and I do not buy to that. It is engine design that is causing poor result on an MD-11 even they have corrected all of the drag problems you're contradicting yourself. You've just said you don't believe that it's a gas guzzler, but you just said the engine design does just that. Paranoid Johnson? Or do you just hate General Electric and Pratt and Whitney?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHN JOHNSON
Let me ask you that question, Such Airliners like United and AA have excessive 777 fleets and they are struggling!!!!!! Delta deffering to buy any more of 777..... ETOP costs..... etc etc etc is making 777 costly to have.
Okay, now thats just bull****. Your blaming the 777 for these airlines bankruptcy? Maybe your still living in the Nixon era, but in case you didn't realize legacies are finding it harder to make a profit because of LOW COST AIRLINES, HIGH OIL PRICES, AN INTERNATIONAL DECLINE IN AIR TRAVEL BROUGHT ON BY A CERTAIN DAY IN SEPTEMBER, AND A ****TY AIRPORT EXPERIENCE, but not by a plane that makes up 1/75th of their fleet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHN JOHNSON
Soon we will see the Death of 747 if this trend contiunes.I do not personally believe that 777 is a right specification as an MD-11 replacement. It is consider as the between size of MD-11 and 747. Look at those Asia-regions are buying more 777 than they are buying the 747.
What does the 747 have to do with this? If anything your argument is that the 400 seat range of passenger capacity airliners is in the decline?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHN JOHNSON
Let me ask you question: After 777F unveiled..... Why don't I see 100+ in order? It is $$$$$$$$$ friggling expensive $$$$$$$$$! Just to carry a cargo of dogs****? You can buy a MD-11 for $10,000,000 to 30,000,000 depending on their age and able to fly more years!!! That makes an AAA+++ for cargoliners to make lot of money with less "plane" payments than if they own an 777F.
Or maybe because airlines can carry cargo on passenger aircraft as well? Dedicated freighter aircraft have never been, and most likely will never be, in such demand as one that carries both passengers and people. You can't say that there have been few orders for it because of its price because frankly you don't know. Boeing developed another freighter in addition to the 744F, whats the big deal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHN JOHNSON
MD-11 remain in the best market and remain a great demand.

Soon parts will become a problem for the MD-11. Again, Thanks to Boeing!

Overall, 777 won big time is because it is ALL-NEW aircraft. MD-11 is just an another "DC-10". Suppose if MD-11 is ALL-NEW aircraft than the DC-10 at the price of $130,000,000 and better performance result than the MD-11. It will cripple the 777's success. Without a question!
There's not a great demand for MD-11's or MD-80's, because if there was then chances are McDD's Commercial division would still be around.

Parts will become a problem for the MD-11 because the MD-11 is out of production, which is thanks to the shortcomings of Douglas's sales team. New Airbuses are having trouble with finding spares but I don't see you bitching at them.

Overall the 777 won big time because it worked better for airlines. An airline is going to buy what works for them, not what seems nicer or families ties as shown by CR Smiths decision to buy the 707 rather than the DC-7, and even United, which was started by, you guessed it, Boeing. Apparently you don't have the full story because the MD-11 sold 200 frames and the 777-200 alone has sold over 400. Airlines don't give a toss if a plane is new or not, but if its going to make them more money than what the competition has to offer, then they're going to take it.
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