OT- I guess there's more of a furor in Canada than I thought!

Sentinel Chicken · 09-24-2001, 12:27 PM

Response to attacks on Bush-Chretien agenda
September 24, 2001 Posted: 8:42 AM EDT (1242 GMT)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Bush is meeting Monday with Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chretien to discuss the international response to the terror attacks in New York and Washington.

Bush and Chretien are expected to discuss Canada's contribution to the fight against terrorism. They include border security, military, diplomatic and financial contributions.

The White House said the president and prime minister will meet in the Oval Office, followed by a private lunch. Bush wants to tell Chretien personally how moved America has been at the outpouring of support and solidarity from the Canadian people and government after the attacks, the White House said.

Canada reportedly is prepared to offer military forces to the campaign. Some of the possibilities that have been reported include ground troops, CF-18 jet fighters and naval frigates on the front lines.

Other reported contributions include offering more CF-18 jet fighters for joint patrols of North American skies and Canadian soldiers for peacekeeping duties in Bosnia to free U.S. troops there for duty elsewhere.

Canadian Defense Minister Art Eggleton said Sunday on CBC Newsworld that "we may have to rework how some of our forces are currently deployed" and said there are limits on how much Canada can contribute because of the size of its military.

Chretien criticized at home

The Canadian prime minister has been criticized for his responses to the crisis, and Bush, in his speech to Congress on Thursday night, didn't mention Canada but thanked other nations by name.

The Bush administration denies it snubbed Canada, and Chretien said he does not think he was slighted.

He said he was the first international leader to speak with Bush after the attacks and that the president has thanked Canada for its help. The country accepted more than 200 U.S.-bound jetliners when the attacks forced the closing of airspace.

But conservatives in Canada said Chretien has been unwilling to join other nations in immediately promising full military support.

He also has been criticized for failing to schedule a visit to ground zero in New York. Chretien's office said his presence might hamper recovery efforts.

Canada: No immigration changes

In the wake of the attacks, attention has focused on Ottawa's immigration policies, which critics said have made Canada a safe haven for armed groups wishing to launch assaults against the United States.

Canadian Foreign Minister John Manley said Canada would not bow to pressure to curb its liberal immigration policies and urged U.S. politicians to abandon any thoughts they might have about increasing controls along the two nations' undefended 3,100-mile border.

No link has so far been established between Canada and the attackers, a point Manley was at pains to underline.

The CBC reports that Progressive Conservative Leader Joe Clark said Chretien should let Bush know that Canada stands ready to help militarily in the war on terrorism.

"I think the prime minister should take the opportunity (Monday) to make it clear Canadian airspace and landing sites would be available if there is any need," Clark told the CBC.

The CBC also reported that Clark said many Canadian aid workers across the globe could use their influence and contacts to help locate terror cells.

Colin J.P. Campbell · 09-25-2001, 01:23 PM

Yes most people up here want to send our idiot leader to Afganistan to fend for himself! One way ticket! As for the the immigration thing....don't get me started! Bunch of Liberal clowns up here controling the show!

Sentinel Chicken · 09-25-2001, 01:27 PM

I'm a little rusty on my Canadian politics (I have numerous relatives in Toronto and Ottawa), can the Canadian guys here review real quick who the parties are? We really only have 2 parties in the US.

For instance, what's a Progressive Conservative in terms of Canadian politics? Is that like a moderate Republican?

Is Chretien a Liberal party member then?

Just curious.

Ozz · 09-26-2001, 01:44 AM

The Liberal's are "head up their arse" idiots!
The Progressive Conservative's are defunked idiots!
The New democrat party (NDP) are F***ing idiots!
And the Canadian Alliance (Reform) party are wannabe idiots!
Cretien is a liberal, see above.

You know, if you guy's bought Canada, it would solve all our problems!

Dan · 09-26-2001, 10:08 AM

You would have to drink our beer.

Ozz · 09-26-2001, 11:24 AM

And that's definitely a good thing!

Colin · 09-26-2001, 02:50 PM

The Canadian government seems to think that placing reasonable controls on immigration would scare away people who want to move here. If that's the case, those people have a reason to fear checks that involve some kind of depth, and therefore we don't want them. Sure Canada needs more people, but instead of importing terrorists, why don't we have national day care and tax breaks to make having children more affordable? I'm sure the vast majority of recent immigrants (like my wife) are honest, decent and hard-working people, but there are too many who are not.

My favourite absolutely true story involved the Somalian community that spread across Ontario in the early 1990s. While Canadian soldiers were in Somalia trying to feed people and bring some order to the country, Somalians in Ontario were ripping off welfare (to the tune of three, four or even six cheques per person) and sending the money to Somalian war lords who were shooting at UN peace keepers!! The media reported at the time that something like $6 million was siphoned off. In Ontario, welfare cheats don't go to jail. Their "wages" are garnisheed until they pay back what they stole. What wages??

How did this happen? Simple. If you get off a plane in Canada and say the word "refugee" you get to stay until you can have an immigration hearing, usually 6 to 9 months later. During that time you are out in the general population, collecting welfare because you aren't allowed to work. Now there are certainly some people who need our help, and I'm happy to offer them a welcome. But there are also a lot of people who know Canada is an easy mark and they take full advantage of our system. When the Supreme Court of Canada ruled that everyone in Canada, citizens, refugees, even visitors, have the full protection of our Charter of Rights and Freedoms, the government should have moved to pass new laws that overrode the Charter when it comes to refugees. Until proven otherwise, I think we have no choice but to view refugees as potential threats. A few weeks ago that would have seemed heavy handed, but not now. If we have to detain people until we can prove they are no threat, then so be it. That's the price they have to pay for showing up illegally and requesting admission. If they don't like it, they can go somewhere else.

On the issue of our Prime Minister, he has done a masterful job of doing nothing fast. As for the NYC trip, Giuliani asked him not to come because Japan's PM was visiting. That's a snub in my book, because there are thousands of Canadians helping out there. Full marks to Ontario Premier (akin to a state Governor) Mike Harris. On the day of the attack he opened up Ontario's hospital system to the NY government and had doctors, nurses and ambulances ready to roll within hours of the attacks. If we had any kind of national conservative party I'm sure he'd be our next PM. Alas, the idiots in the Canadian Alliance and the Progressive Conservatives would rather dicker about petty things than get together to offer a viable alternative to the Liberals. Yeah, Alliance is all about good government. Right.

Remember, our American friends, that while our national government has dropped the ball, we Canadians have been helping out from Day One. And we will continue to do so. There are US flags everywhere up here, and billboards with the simple message “God Bless America.”

justin · 09-26-2001, 03:04 PM

Is Canada that easy to enter now? A few years ago when I left the RAF I was thinking of going there as an oil company was talking about sponsoring me, I never went in the end but remember the immigration requirements seemed really strict to me, if it wasn't for the fact I had a potential sponsor I would never have had any chance of meeting the requirements.

Colin J.P. Campbell · 09-26-2001, 03:41 PM

I want Joe Clark back as our Primeminister!
Other than that their are are only a few politicians worthy of that spot in Canada. Unlike the United States where I could right a good list of potential candidates. Kim Campbell (no relation) was a better Primeminister than what we have now and she only was around for a very short time.

Sentinel Chicken · 09-26-2001, 04:27 PM

So what's y'all's opinion of the job Brian Mulroney did? Didn't he try to get the Meech Lake agreement moving to reform the structure of the Canadian government and settle the Quebec issue?

Can Quebec really be serious about wanting to be sovereign? I seem to remember a political party called Parti Quebecois that was pushing for independence.

Ozz · 09-27-2001, 12:28 AM

Hey Doc,
If you want to know more about Mulroney, find the book "The true north strong and fleeced", and read about this Torrie governments term at the trough. I can't remember who wrote it but she had a catchy name. Great read, unless you happen to be Canadian.
The Meech Lake Accord would have given Quebec "distinct society status" and as a result they would enjoy the same percentage of representation they had then, forever, regardless of their population. So if BC's population quadrupled, compared to Quebec's, Quebec would be guaranteed the same percentage in the house as they have now. It would have cemented the power base permanently in the east and left western Canada as a colony in comparison.
The Bloc Quebecois is alive and well, they even had a turn as the official opposition, ironic as they are anti national.
They lost two referendums on the separation issue and for now are quiet.
I'd like to see a western separist party, I'd be a card carrying member.
Do you think Jerry Jones would like to buy BC?

Steven De Lisser · 09-27-2001, 11:12 AM

Like Bush, Chretien is a fool surrounded by good people.

Colin Powell should be President.

Steven

Colin J.P. Campbell · 09-27-2001, 02:29 PM

Thank God Al Gore is not President!!!!
I am Glad the Bush family has control!
The person that I could do with out is **** Cheney! I hate that man!

09-24-2001, 12:27 PM	#1
Sentinel Chicken Go-Getters Go Ozark Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: DFW/THE GREAT STATE OF TEXAS Posts: 4,167	OT- I guess there's more of a furor in Canada than I thought! Response to attacks on Bush-Chretien agenda September 24, 2001 Posted: 8:42 AM EDT (1242 GMT) WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Bush is meeting Monday with Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chretien to discuss the international response to the terror attacks in New York and Washington. Bush and Chretien are expected to discuss Canada's contribution to the fight against terrorism. They include border security, military, diplomatic and financial contributions. The White House said the president and prime minister will meet in the Oval Office, followed by a private lunch. Bush wants to tell Chretien personally how moved America has been at the outpouring of support and solidarity from the Canadian people and government after the attacks, the White House said. Canada reportedly is prepared to offer military forces to the campaign. Some of the possibilities that have been reported include ground troops, CF-18 jet fighters and naval frigates on the front lines. Other reported contributions include offering more CF-18 jet fighters for joint patrols of North American skies and Canadian soldiers for peacekeeping duties in Bosnia to free U.S. troops there for duty elsewhere. Canadian Defense Minister Art Eggleton said Sunday on CBC Newsworld that "we may have to rework how some of our forces are currently deployed" and said there are limits on how much Canada can contribute because of the size of its military. Chretien criticized at home The Canadian prime minister has been criticized for his responses to the crisis, and Bush, in his speech to Congress on Thursday night, didn't mention Canada but thanked other nations by name. The Bush administration denies it snubbed Canada, and Chretien said he does not think he was slighted. He said he was the first international leader to speak with Bush after the attacks and that the president has thanked Canada for its help. The country accepted more than 200 U.S.-bound jetliners when the attacks forced the closing of airspace. But conservatives in Canada said Chretien has been unwilling to join other nations in immediately promising full military support. He also has been criticized for failing to schedule a visit to ground zero in New York. Chretien's office said his presence might hamper recovery efforts. Canada: No immigration changes In the wake of the attacks, attention has focused on Ottawa's immigration policies, which critics said have made Canada a safe haven for armed groups wishing to launch assaults against the United States. Canadian Foreign Minister John Manley said Canada would not bow to pressure to curb its liberal immigration policies and urged U.S. politicians to abandon any thoughts they might have about increasing controls along the two nations' undefended 3,100-mile border. No link has so far been established between Canada and the attackers, a point Manley was at pains to underline. The CBC reports that Progressive Conservative Leader Joe Clark said Chretien should let Bush know that Canada stands ready to help militarily in the war on terrorism. "I think the prime minister should take the opportunity (Monday) to make it clear Canadian airspace and landing sites would be available if there is any need," Clark told the CBC. The CBC also reported that Clark said many Canadian aid workers across the globe could use their influence and contacts to help locate terror cells. __________________ *Piss on noise abatement!*

09-25-2001, 01:23 PM	#2
Colin J.P. Campbell Senior Collector Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 279	Our Primeminister sucks! Yes most people up here want to send our idiot leader to Afganistan to fend for himself! One way ticket! As for the the immigration thing....don't get me started! Bunch of Liberal clowns up here controling the show! __________________ Cheers Colin J.P. Campbell

09-25-2001, 01:27 PM	#3
Sentinel Chicken Go-Getters Go Ozark Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: DFW/THE GREAT STATE OF TEXAS Posts: 4,167	I'm a little rusty on my Canadian politics (I have numerous relatives in Toronto and Ottawa), can the Canadian guys here review real quick who the parties are? We really only have 2 parties in the US. For instance, what's a Progressive Conservative in terms of Canadian politics? Is that like a moderate Republican? Is Chretien a Liberal party member then? Just curious. __________________ *Piss on noise abatement!*

09-26-2001, 01:44 AM	#4
Ozz Insane Collector Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Canada (CYVR) Age: 51 Posts: 2,763	The Liberal's are "head up their arse" idiots! The Progressive Conservative's are defunked idiots! The New democrat party (NDP) are F*ing idiots! And the Canadian Alliance (Reform) party are wannabe idiots! Cretien is a liberal, see above. You know, if you guy's bought Canada, it would solve all our problems! __________________ Ozz ORANGE IS BEAUTIFUL GO WESTJET!!!** We need more CPAir/CDN and don't forget PWA and BA Landor! Last edited by Ozz; 09-26-2001 at 12:33 PM.

09-26-2001, 10:08 AM	#5
Dan Senior Collector Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Evergreen Pk., Il., USA Posts: 340	You would have to drink our beer. __________________ Dan

09-26-2001, 11:24 AM	#6
Ozz Insane Collector Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Canada (CYVR) Age: 51 Posts: 2,763	And that's definitely a good thing! __________________ Ozz ORANGE IS BEAUTIFUL *GO WESTJET!!!* We need more CPAir/CDN and don't forget PWA and BA Landor!

09-26-2001, 02:50 PM	#7
Colin Senior Collector Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 409	The Canadian government seems to think that placing reasonable controls on immigration would scare away people who want to move here. If that's the case, those people have a reason to fear checks that involve some kind of depth, and therefore we don't want them. Sure Canada needs more people, but instead of importing terrorists, why don't we have national day care and tax breaks to make having children more affordable? I'm sure the vast majority of recent immigrants (like my wife) are honest, decent and hard-working people, but there are too many who are not. My favourite absolutely true story involved the Somalian community that spread across Ontario in the early 1990s. While Canadian soldiers were in Somalia trying to feed people and bring some order to the country, Somalians in Ontario were ripping off welfare (to the tune of three, four or even six cheques per person) and sending the money to Somalian war lords who were shooting at UN peace keepers!! The media reported at the time that something like $6 million was siphoned off. In Ontario, welfare cheats don't go to jail. Their "wages" are garnisheed until they pay back what they stole. What wages?? How did this happen? Simple. If you get off a plane in Canada and say the word "refugee" you get to stay until you can have an immigration hearing, usually 6 to 9 months later. During that time you are out in the general population, collecting welfare because you aren't allowed to work. Now there are certainly some people who need our help, and I'm happy to offer them a welcome. But there are also a lot of people who know Canada is an easy mark and they take full advantage of our system. When the Supreme Court of Canada ruled that everyone in Canada, citizens, refugees, even visitors, have the full protection of our Charter of Rights and Freedoms, the government should have moved to pass new laws that overrode the Charter when it comes to refugees. Until proven otherwise, I think we have no choice but to view refugees as potential threats. A few weeks ago that would have seemed heavy handed, but not now. If we have to detain people until we can prove they are no threat, then so be it. That's the price they have to pay for showing up illegally and requesting admission. If they don't like it, they can go somewhere else. On the issue of our Prime Minister, he has done a masterful job of doing nothing fast. As for the NYC trip, Giuliani asked him not to come because Japan's PM was visiting. That's a snub in my book, because there are thousands of Canadians helping out there. Full marks to Ontario Premier (akin to a state Governor) Mike Harris. On the day of the attack he opened up Ontario's hospital system to the NY government and had doctors, nurses and ambulances ready to roll within hours of the attacks. If we had any kind of national conservative party I'm sure he'd be our next PM. Alas, the idiots in the Canadian Alliance and the Progressive Conservatives would rather dicker about petty things than get together to offer a viable alternative to the Liberals. Yeah, Alliance is all about good government. Right. Remember, our American friends, that while our national government has dropped the ball, we Canadians have been helping out from Day One. And we will continue to do so. There are US flags everywhere up here, and billboards with the simple message “God Bless America.”

09-26-2001, 03:04 PM	#8
justin Insane Collector Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 2,005	Is Canada that easy to enter now? A few years ago when I left the RAF I was thinking of going there as an oil company was talking about sponsoring me, I never went in the end but remember the immigration requirements seemed really strict to me, if it wasn't for the fact I had a potential sponsor I would never have had any chance of meeting the requirements.

09-26-2001, 03:41 PM	#9
Colin J.P. Campbell Senior Collector Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 279	Idiots! I want Joe Clark back as our Primeminister! Other than that their are are only a few politicians worthy of that spot in Canada. Unlike the United States where I could right a good list of potential candidates. Kim Campbell (no relation) was a better Primeminister than what we have now and she only was around for a very short time. __________________ Cheers Colin J.P. Campbell

09-26-2001, 04:27 PM	#10
Sentinel Chicken Go-Getters Go Ozark Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: DFW/THE GREAT STATE OF TEXAS Posts: 4,167	So what's y'all's opinion of the job Brian Mulroney did? Didn't he try to get the Meech Lake agreement moving to reform the structure of the Canadian government and settle the Quebec issue? Can Quebec really be serious about wanting to be sovereign? I seem to remember a political party called Parti Quebecois that was pushing for independence. __________________ *Piss on noise abatement!*

09-27-2001, 12:28 AM	#11
Ozz Insane Collector Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Canada (CYVR) Age: 51 Posts: 2,763	Hey Doc, If you want to know more about Mulroney, find the book "The true north strong and fleeced", and read about this Torrie governments term at the trough. I can't remember who wrote it but she had a catchy name. Great read, unless you happen to be Canadian. The Meech Lake Accord would have given Quebec "distinct society status" and as a result they would enjoy the same percentage of representation they had then, forever, regardless of their population. So if BC's population quadrupled, compared to Quebec's, Quebec would be guaranteed the same percentage in the house as they have now. It would have cemented the power base permanently in the east and left western Canada as a colony in comparison. The Bloc Quebecois is alive and well, they even had a turn as the official opposition, ironic as they are anti national. They lost two referendums on the separation issue and for now are quiet. I'd like to see a western separist party, I'd be a card carrying member. Do you think Jerry Jones would like to buy BC? __________________ Ozz ORANGE IS BEAUTIFUL *GO WESTJET!!!* We need more CPAir/CDN and don't forget PWA and BA Landor!

09-27-2001, 11:12 AM	#12
Steven De Lisser Master Collector Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 783	Like Bush, Chretien is a fool surrounded by good people. Colin Powell should be President. Steven

09-27-2001, 02:29 PM	#13
Colin J.P. Campbell Senior Collector Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 279	Bush for a second term please! Thank God Al Gore is not President!!!! I am Glad the Bush family has control! The person that I could do with out is **** Cheney! I hate that man! __________________ Cheers Colin J.P. Campbell

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