I'm going on my 2nd year collecting these wonderful little metal and plastic things, and I enjoy it. Thus far, I'm just short of 300 models, and my pocketbook about $4000 lighter.
This is only my 3rd month after joining this forum. Needless to say, I suppose I'm rather jaded already that I cannot type (the word I cannot type), or other words. I have no idea what happened last week, month, or year that caused this to occur. Actually, I don't really guess I care either.
All I want to do is keep buying and collecting my models. Perhaps I've missed out on the fun and excitement of the brouhaha that is going on, but this is rather childish. To see a bunch of ******** on a forum, instead of names makes me think there are swear words, or those words you wouldn't want a child to hear. Has it come down to that?
Have I missed the point on all this mess? Or is it something else? We buy. We sell. What else is there? It's capitalism at its finest.
Well, a certain person from a certain manufacturer has been rather childish towards collectors for them voicing the slightest negative opinions about certain releases over the years. It's very unfortunate that the criticisms aren't taken constructively. It seems like they are instead taken personally, which has inevitably resulted in explosions of obscenities and very heated arguments between said person and collectors. I think the person was eventually permanantly banned from DAC because of that, which has led to this supposed "legal action" towards this forum for any kind of mention of him or his line of models. It confuses the crap out of me because I keep hearing about how much of a saint the guy is in person. Go figure...
I'm going on my 2nd year collecting these wonderful little metal and plastic things, and I enjoy it. Thus far, I'm just short of 300 models, and my pocketbook about $4000 lighter.
This is only my 3rd month after joining this forum. Needless to say, I suppose I'm rather jaded already that I cannot type (the word I cannot type), or other words. I have no idea what happened last week, month, or year that caused this to occur. Actually, I don't really guess I care either.
All I want to do is keep buying and collecting my models. Perhaps I've missed out on the fun and excitement of the brouhaha that is going on, but this is rather childish. To see a bunch of ******** on a forum, instead of names makes me think there are swear words, or those words you wouldn't want a child to hear. Has it come down to that?
Have I missed the point on all this mess? Or is it something else? We buy. We sell. What else is there? It's capitalism at its finest.
Well, Yes ... and No.
To quote part of your posting .... "We buy. We Sell."
You may not be aware of this ... but right now if you have an ************ (the "*" Asterix brand) Boeing plane and it is a recent release, you cannot sell it on eBay because (the "*" Asterix brand) is no longer licensed to make Boeing models and Boeing is forcing eBay to shut down those auctions.
That is one area of this SNAFU that affects us .. the collectors.
If you have any issues with the censoring, you can forward your complaints directly to the person who requested such action, the owner of ************ Inc, Zareh Ahmoudy. He can be contacted via email at ve2nw@videotron.ca .
I'll call Andrew personally and tell him how childish this is. Not that it will matter to him, but this really is as dumb as it gets.
To quote part of your posting .... "We buy. We Sell."
You may not be aware of this ... but right now if you have an ************ (the "*" Asterix brand) Boeing plane and it is a recent release, you cannot sell it on eBay because (the "*" Asterix brand) is no longer licensed to make Boeing models and Boeing is forcing eBay to shut down those auctions.
That is one area of this SNAFU that affects us .. the collectors.
Buddy
To be fair add to that 400 scale list any brand other than Gemini Jets, Phoenix Models, Dragon Wings (except USAir and Boeing LCF), Herpa Wings, Hogan, Aviation400 and ************ prior to last year. I may have missed one or two. None can be sold on Ebay if it is Boeing related. USAir or related airlines and Boeing will not allow unlicensed models to be sold via Ebay.
Peewee
Peewee
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To be fair add to that 400 scale list any brand other than Gemini Jets, Phoenix Models, Dragon Wings (except USAir and Boeing LCF), Herpa Wings, Hogan, Aviation400 and ************ prior to last year. I may have missed one or two. None can be sold on Ebay if it is Boeing related. USAir or related airlines and Boeing will not allow unlicensed models to be sold via Ebay.
Peewee
Peewee
PeeWee,
Yes, you are correct.
I regret the over-statement.
I had forgotten the depth of the problem.
... It's very unfortunate that the criticisms aren't taken constructively. It seems like they are instead taken personally, which has inevitably resulted in explosions of obscenities and very heated arguments between said person and collectors ...
Not always the case actually.
I have given Andrew heaps of both "bouquets and brickbats" over the accuracy of his models and all my comments have been accepted with relative good humour on his part I must say.
My opinion of his worst moulds (the 727s and the Electra) are well known but thankfully I have had much more opportunity to throw bouquets than brickbats because, let's face it, AeroClasics generally "sets the standard" when it comes to retro models. Most of my collection is AeroClasics because they are simply the best (not including the 727s and Electra!! ).
To be fair add to that 400 scale list any brand other than Gemini Jets, Phoenix Models, Dragon Wings (except USAir and Boeing LCF), Herpa Wings, Hogan, Aviation400 and ************ prior to last year. I may have missed one or two. None can be sold on Ebay if it is Boeing related. USAir or related airlines and Boeing will not allow unlicensed models to be sold via Ebay.
Peewee
Peewee
Norm, this is a hell of a game for Boeing to try and enforce as some manufactuers had a Boeing license and then let them lapse. How on earth can Boeing keep track of what and what isn't licensed? Also why should a private E.Bay seller have to suffer when selling a second-hand model in good faith? So, for example you're saying that a so-and-so airline model of a Boeing airliner is made on the 31st of a month within the license, but if the license expired on the 1st of the next month, then the same model with a different livery would be banned on E.Bay?
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DC-8s still needed to be done in 1/400: Air Ceylon, Air Spain, Seaboard World (-63CF)
Comets still missing- Dan Air (4 & 4C), United Arab Airlines/Misrair/Egyptair, Kuwait AW, Sudan AW, East African AW, Saudi Royal Flt.
Caravelles still not made: Luxair, Air Algerie,SABENA (final scheme), Libyan Arab Airlines, SAS ( SCANDINAVIAN titles scheme)
Ilyushin IL-18s still not made: Tarom (billboard,) Malev (1st scheme),Cubana, Balkan/ Tabso-Bulgarian Air Transport,
Norm, this is a hell of a game for Boeing to try and enforce as some manufactuers had a Boeing license and then let them lapse. How on earth can Boeing keep track of what and what isn't licensed?
It really wouldn't be hard at all. It's fairly trivial to find out what month a model was released. A single employee could probably make a definitive list in a couple days. At most, there might be a grey area for any particular models released the month before the license expiration, and for which production continued after the expiry. If Boeing is taking such an interest in their licensed products, they may well have been getting a list of all the items and sales figures, too; I don't know.
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Also why should a private E.Bay seller have to suffer when selling a second-hand model in good faith?
Yes, it's very unfortunate that sellers who were unaware of the issue got caught in the middle, but if Boeing wants to remove these items from the marketplace and discourage the manufacture of new ones, then that's what has to happen.
Quote:
So, for example you're saying that a so-and-so airline model of a Boeing airliner is made on the 31st of a month within the license, but if the license expired on the 1st of the next month, then the same model with a different livery would be banned on E.Bay?
Presumably the license itself spells out the terms of the agreement. For it to make any sense, it probably bars production of anything after the expiry.
Edit: Boeing has live trademarks for the terms '727', '737', '747', '757', '767', '777', '787', 'DC-8' and 'DC-10' in the context of model airplanes and toys. Only for 707 can I not find a trademark specifically for model aircraft, and the ones for 'DC-3' and 'MD-88' have been abandoned. So if Aero Classics is still selling a model aircraft as a '727' and '737', which they are, they've got issues. Unless they want to challenge the trademark itself.
Last edited by AnonCollector; 10-15-2009 at 11:11 AM.
Closing in on 300 models for $4K. Where in the heck do you get models for $13-14 apiece?
so did I!
We want names and contact numbers of your dealers!
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Norm, this is a hell of a game for Boeing to try and enforce as some manufactuers had a Boeing license and then let them lapse. How on earth can Boeing keep track of what and what isn't licensed? Also why should a private E.Bay seller have to suffer when selling a second-hand model in good faith? So, for example you're saying that a so-and-so airline model of a Boeing airliner is made on the 31st of a month within the license, but if the license expired on the 1st of the next month, then the same model with a different livery would be banned on E.Bay?
I asked one of the Boeing IP guys how I as a retailer could sell the licensed ArrowClassics and not run a foul of them with regard to the non licensed products. I was told not to worry about it. To carry on and they would let me know if I was out of sync with them. So far I have not heard a word from them. But I too think that each month the model makers submit a list of what they have made, or will make, for that month to Boeing. Otherwise how would there be any communication between the two parties as to how much was owed in royalties? If that is true then Boeing would have a list of that which was and that which was not licensed, would they not?
Peewee
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Like I stated on the thread where this all began...these are just model planes. There is no need to fight or argue over the internet over damn toys. I wonder what Dylan would say about all this?
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Ninjas can't catch you if your power level is OVER 9000!
Like I stated on the thread where this all began...these are just model planes. There is no need to fight or argue over the internet over damn toys. I wonder what Dylan would say about all this?
Dylan would say, "The times they are a changin'"
Peewee
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We want names and contact numbers of your dealers!
Well, I reckon I've been rather frugal with my purchases. The majority have been on sales that I've found on the internet, some from eBay, and also I'm blessed to have a great model shop nearby that always takes care of me with some extra % off; even of sale items.
I've keep the prices of just about everything I've bought, except for about 30 models or so... I just can't find the receipts for those. I documented everything into the Wings900 collection manager.
The best purchase I suppose I ever made was for 8 models at 25cents each at a yard sale. ($2.00 total!) Obviously the lady had no clue what she was getting rid of. She said that they were from the ex-husband. Go figure....
Closing in on 300 models for $4K. Where in the heck do you get models for $13-14 apiece?
Perhaps he just knows where to get a good deal! This year has been really good for me when it comes to nice affordable models, so far I managed to get the JetX UAL 727 set for 15, Gemini Eastern 747 "PanAm Cheatline" for 15, Green Box Delta DC-9-32s N3335L and N3339L for 12.95 a pop, GJ Delta 767-200 "Spirit of Delta" for 15. Most of these were bought at AI2009 this year, with the exceptions being the Delta DC-9s which I got this week from a retailer who was selling them for that price.
Though getting models that many models cheap is a hard thing to do unless you know where to look. Most of my models that are that cheap are my older herpa 1:500 scale models.
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The best purchase I suppose I ever made was for 8 models at 25cents each at a yard sale. ($2.00 total!) Obviously the lady had no clue what she was getting rid of. She said that they were from the ex-husband. Go figure....
Daaaaaaaaamn. Feel sorry for that lady's Ex, but I do say congrats on what I think is one of the best deals I've ever seen!
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I have heard that there is a company in China that is seriously considering branding their models as "*********". Should they do that then you will have real confusion trying to distinguish between *********** and ******* brands when discussed here.
Peewee
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I have heard that there is a company in China that is seriously considering branding their models as "*********". Should they do that then you will have real confusion trying to distinguish between *********** and ******* brands when discussed here.
Peewee
Aww, really? Of course, perhaps this manufacture is considering naming their new line of models as Classicaeros. Either way, I hope that doesn't happen. The last thing we need is more of this confusion in the hobby!
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Aww, really? Of course, perhaps this manufacture is considering naming their new line of models as Classicaeros. Either way, I hope that doesn't happen. The last thing we need is more of this confusion in the hobby!
Maybe the new mfg should be called "*********". That way we'll all know who they are?
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Maybe the new mfg should be called "*********". That way we'll all know who they are?
Oh I see, so they might be considering naming their models "************"? That would be quite a humorous situation, and also create a bit of an interesting novelty item for collectors too!
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How about Zareh renaming "Aero-Classics" to "Andrew ***** Toys"
Quote:
Originally Posted by LOT 737-300
Aww, really? Of course, perhaps this manufacture is considering naming their new line of models as Classicaeros. Either way, I hope that doesn't happen. The last thing we need is more of this confusion in the hobby!
As long as the brand have some good models and actcual service(and I mean not "Just buy it, stop pointing out obvious flaws"), I'm happy with it.
Aww, really? Of course, perhaps this manufacture is considering naming their new line of models as Classicaeros. Either way, I hope that doesn't happen. The last thing we need is more of this confusion in the hobby!
You may recall that when there was a Blue Box that within a few months there was another that did not have a name on the box but the box was Blue. Then there was JC Wings and now there is a CJ Wings. Then there was I think Jet X that began putting the Pirate symbol on the box in honor of the name that one A ***** has given them. I can understand a company wanting to cash in on all of the hype that ************ has gotten, aka free adversting. To name a company just now *********** is most fortuitus.
Peewee
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Then there was JC Wings and now there is a CJ Wings.
The good ole' smoke screen is rising again from **'s staunchest defender. Or maybe I got ripped off -- when I received my last batch of Aeroclasics cargo 727's, they all came in CJ Wings boxes. Man, I gotta have a stern talk with my retailer to stop selling me pirate junk as Aeroclasics.
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Last edited by SilkAirA320; 10-24-2009 at 06:51 PM.
The good ole' smoke screen is rising again from **'s staunchest defender. Or maybe I got ripped off -- when I received my last batch of Aeroclasics cargo 727's, they all came in CJ Wings boxes. Man, I gotta have a stern talk with my retailer to stop selling me pirate junk as Aeroclasics.
You really don't have much preception when it comes to reading something do you? You have managed to read so much into a simple statement. What was said was the retort to JC Wings was CJ Wings. Nothing more than that. Somehow you convolute that to be a smoke screen and a conspiricy of grand proportions.
I suggest that you need not talk to anyone about anything but rather buy the model that you want to buy from whom you choose to buy it from and think nothing more about it than that.
Peewee
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How about Zareh renaming "Aero-Classics" to "Andrew ***** Toys"
As long as the brand have some good models and actcual service(and I mean not "Just buy it, stop pointing out obvious flaws"), I'm happy with it.
Great words said. For me as a retailer an a collector myself and after some feed back from fellow collectors there is no boundary for any particular brands.
Accuracy of a model we had to accept it as if you want a prefect model well then the extra premium price along with the licences issue will kill this hobby.
Just like our country airline not much of models are ordered by the airlines itself but thanks to those who made most of it happen now the collects are very, very happy to see their cabinets are fill with the models they love. Just my 2 sense.
Great words said. For me as a retailer an a collector myself and after some feed back from fellow collectors there is no boundary for any particular brands.
Accuracy of a model we had to accept it as if you want a prefect model well then the extra premium price along with the licences issue will kill this hobby.
Just like our country airline not much of models are ordered by the airlines itself but thanks to those who made most of it happen now the collects are very, very happy to see their cabinets are fill with the models they love. Just my 2 sense.
I'm sure there's a flaw on every model that was produced. My GJ A330s had poorly designed landing gear. My DAL 767 Spirit has "monster-truck" like rubber tires. Most of my 737s have a landing gear that's too tiny. GJ's metal stand does not fit early narrowbodies(DC-9, 727, 737 Classic). Those issues I can live with. However, when people like Andrew deny an major issue (such as wrong livery) and screams "it's your fault", people get tired of it quickly. I have to admit, Aero Classic does make some very good and rare models. However we do not need to be told "shut up" everytime we point out an major flaw (I know, some collectors do make big deals of minor flaws). Try to play nice, you will be screamed at. Try to argue with him, it's not worth it. The old A-K was a much cooler, calm guy, and it makes me wonder why he changed. Anyways, I won't be posting at 400SH for a while.....
The good ole' smoke screen is rising again from **'s staunchest defender. Or maybe I got ripped off -- when I received my last batch of Aeroclasics cargo 727's, they all came in CJ Wings boxes. Man, I gotta have a stern talk with my retailer to stop selling me pirate junk as Aeroclasics.
Just like my Аэроклассикс LOT DC-10 came in Euroclassics box? I notice that models that fit a certain category will have a sub-brand of AC, like European AC planes I think go under Euroclassics, Lat-am Planes under Latinclassics, Cargo aircraft in CJ Wings. Though considered a separate brand which I recall Andrew says he has little or nothing to do with, PanAm releases are under PAMC.
Though what you call a "Pirate Junk-Brand" did help make my life a lot easier by releasing a bunch of Delta DC-9s in various forms of the widget, and on what is one of the nicest DC-9 moulds around in my opinion.
Quote:
Great words said. For me as a retailer an a collector myself and after some feed back from fellow collectors there is no boundary for any particular brands.
Accuracy of a model we had to accept it as if you want a prefect model well then the extra premium price along with the licences issue will kill this hobby.
Just like our country airline not much of models are ordered by the airlines itself but thanks to those who made most of it happen now the collects are very, very happy to see their cabinets are fill with the models they love. Just my 2 sense.
I'm sure there's a flaw on every model that was produced. My GJ A330s had poorly designed landing gear. My DAL 767 Spirit has "monster-truck" like rubber tires. Most of my 737s have a landing gear that's too tiny. GJ's metal stand does not fit early narrowbodies(DC-9, 727, 737 Classic). Those issues I can live with. However, when people like Andrew deny an major issue (such as wrong livery) and screams "it's your fault", people get tired of it quickly. I have to admit, Aero Classic does make some very good and rare models. However we do not need to be told "shut up" everytime we point out an major flaw (I know, some collectors do make big deals of minor flaws). Try to play nice, you will be screamed at. Try to argue with him, it's not worth it. The old A-K was a much cooler, calm guy, and it makes me wonder why he changed. Anyways, I won't be posting at 400SH for a while.....
Admittedly, there are times where Andrew can be quite defensive (and that's reasonable, he is quite proud of his line of models, and I'd possibly too get the same way!) But unless someone is intentionally just bashing AC, I don't notice him to be going around telling people to shut up all the time these days, even on major flaws. At most, he seems to just stay quiet about it.
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Last edited by LOT 737-300; 10-25-2009 at 12:41 AM.
Admittedly, there are times where Andrew can be quite defensive (and that's reasonable, he is quite proud of his line of models, and I'd possibly too get the same way!) But unless someone is intentionally just bashing AC, I don't notice him to be going around telling people to shut up all the time these days, even on major flaws. At most, he seems to just stay quiet about it.
Umm...am I missing something here? Ok, it's not all "flaw" posts, but these are all rude posts from a certain time period.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aklein707
Listen up Buttcrak, since the guy didn't post photos, you can not come to a conclusion unless it is your expressed purpose to just continue to commit your wholesale slander against me or ************ on these forums.
At the time the model in question was made, the mould was owned by SMAC, and the factory was, and still is, Witty Industrial Co. Ltd.
As with many other of your posts Rick, this has been documented!
If I were the owners of this site, I would start to become concerned right about now!
Quote:
Originally Posted by aklein707
I choose neither!!
I refuse to support a company which competes with it's customers (IF200)!
Quote:
Originally Posted by aklein707
For someone who pretends to be so observant, you're blind as a bat this time!
The difference, aside from the engines, is the color scheme itself! This was EAL's final color scheme, with the thinner hockeystick stripe going under the windows, instead of the thicker stripe which went through the windows!
Umm...am I missing something here? 3 posts, almost in a row.
Wow, Jack and you don't even post links.
Seriously, I look at 400SH on a daily basis, usually 2-3 times a day, I see people pointing out flaws these days on there, I don't see too many posts deleted unless they're hardcore flamebait. ** is not this crazy sadist that you keep trying to paint him up as (oh, he yelled at you after you intentionally tried to piss him off? Boo-hoo, like I said, I don't think he was going to show up at your door with every model you want and a box of steaks.)
At most, he doesn't reply to them these days. I read somewhere around though that DAC in the past (the "Wild-West of Diecast" days) was like that, even the GJ guys were said to become defensive about the product.
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Seriously, I look at 400SH on a daily basis, usually 2-3 times a day, I see people pointing out flaws these days on there, I don't see too many posts deleted unless they're hardcore flamebait. ** is not this crazy sadist that you keep trying to paint him up as (oh, he yelled at you after you intentionally tried to piss him off? Boo-hoo, like I said, I don't think he was going to show up at your door with every model you want and a box of steaks.)
At most, he doesn't reply to them these days. I read somewhere around though that DAC in the past (the "Wild-West of Diecast" days) was like that, even the GJ guys were said to become defensive about the product.
Did you read the quoted posts on the bottom of my post?
Umm...am I missing something here? Ok, it's not all "flaw" posts, but these are all rude posts from a certain time period.
"Originally Posted by aklein707
I choose neither!!
I refuse to support a company which competes with it's customers (IF200)!
Quote:
Originally Posted by aklein707
For someone who pretends to be so observant, you're blind as a bat this time!
The difference, aside from the engines, is the color scheme itself! This was EAL's final color scheme, with the thinner hockeystick stripe going under the windows, instead of the thicker stripe which went through the windows!"
What is rude about saying, "I refuse to support a company which competes with it's customers" ?
What he is saying is that he will not buy an AV200 which is made by Witty in the same factory that makes its competitor IF200. This, in Andrew's mind, is unethical and he chooses not to but that brand for that reason. He has enlightened you and you think that rude.
"For someone who pretends to be so observant, you're blind as a bat this time!
The difference, aside from the engines, is the color scheme itself! This was EAL's final color scheme, with the thinner hockeystick stripe going under the windows, instead of the thicker stripe which went through the windows!"
You think this rude? Andrew has taken time to very clearly point out what the flaws of the aforementioned brand is. Once again you have been enlightened and you think it rude. I am beginning to see that you are, as Andrew put it, "blind as a bat" when it comes to reading and understanding that which is a normal and reasonable discussion and that which is not. Have I been rude to you in pointing this out? I think not!
Peewee
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Seriously, I look at 400SH on a daily basis, usually 2-3 times a day, I see people pointing out flaws these days on there, I don't see too many posts deleted unless they're hardcore flamebait. ** is not this crazy sadist that you keep trying to paint him up as (oh, he yelled at you after you intentionally tried to piss him off? Boo-hoo, like I said, I don't think he was going to show up at your door with every model you want and a box of steaks.)
At most, he doesn't reply to them these days. I read somewhere around though that DAC in the past (the "Wild-West of Diecast" days) was like that, even the GJ guys were said to become defensive about the product.
Elliott Epstein and Chris Kilroy of GJ became so infuriated with the nit picking and the cheap shots that were being leveled at their models each month that they finally quit participating in for forums. On that day the collectors lost a valuable link to their hobby. Based on that I will offer that it is not just Andrew and ArrowClassics that you lads attack but have demonstrated in the past that you will attack anything and for any reason. I think you do this just to stroke your own misguided egos.
Peewee
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Did you read the quoted posts on the bottom of my post?
You know what Jack, I just had enough of this! I, nor anyone else on this forum that chooses to can't have a civilized conversation having Аэроклассикс without you coming in and trolling around by saying "Аэроклассикс this" or "Andrew Клеин that." Most anyone else doesn't start to go on this pointless vendetta against AC or Клеин whenever the product is brought up, not Rick, not Tupi. Just stop it, please Jack, just stop it.
amaericanair, will you do us ALL a favor and just STFU??!! Let the big boys argue here. We don't need your 14 years of inexperience piping up in a great thread with your absolutely USELESS 14 year old drivel. My god kid.....it is BEYOND OLD!
Jack, seriously, you're just beating a dead horse and I think other than the people who do have something seriously against Аndrew Клеин HAVE to be tired of it!
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You know what Jack, I just had enough of this! I, nor anyone else on this forum that chooses to can't have a civilized conversation having Аэроклассикс without you coming in and trolling around by saying "Аэроклассикс this" or "Andrew Клеин that." Most anyone else doesn't start to go on this pointless vendetta against AC or Клеин whenever the product is brought up, not Rick, not Tupi. Just stop it, please Jack, just stop it.
Jack, seriously, you're just beating a dead horse and I think other than the people who do have something seriously against Аndrew Клеин HAVE to be tired of it!
I;ll give to you a partial agreement on this. He does not seem to be a full blown troll but certainly when it comes to AC and ** he does have have troll like tendency.
Peee
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Observation from a newbie...
For me as a retailer an a collector myself and after some feed back from fellow collectors there is no boundary for any particular brands. 
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