Models hit by Zinc Plague/Bending Wings/Bubble Paints/Cracking Paints

Jao · 10-17-2008, 06:27 AM

I hope this thread is allowed. I think this will be informative to everyone. Each collector still has his/her independent mind to buy or not to buy models listed here. I hope that we will be subjective on this thread. Let us concentrate to list down which models in our collection have been affected. It will greatly be appreciated if you can post pictures for the better understanding of others.

Here's my BB400 China Southern B767

Jao · 10-17-2008, 06:54 AM

Another one:

BigBird Jal Disney Sea "Dream Express Five"

Jao · 10-17-2008, 06:57 AM

BigBird Jal Disney Sea "Dream Express Four"

Hawaiian · 10-17-2008, 09:35 AM

Boy this is getting depressing! I have well over 700 models and everytime this issue is brought up I get paranoid and have to check them all.

Tom

karun83 · 10-17-2008, 09:43 AM

that is indeed very depressing... wonder how some of my models will look like few years from now...!!

ACpilot · 10-17-2008, 10:11 AM

This is limited to models produced in the AeroClassics/Big Bird 400 factory in late 2002/early 2003.

The explanation that I have heard that makes the most sense is that a factory worker used a wrong or faulty batch of metal.

Only a handful of my over 800 models have been affected.

AeroClassics CP-Air B737 (Empress of Montreal) - Released OCT 29 2002.

AeroClassics Pacific Western Canada B737s (All three releases) - DEC 12 2002.

The Big Bird JAL 50th in the photos above was released JAN 15 2003.

The China Southern B763 is actually an AeroClassics released APR 26 2003.

This is NOT an environmental issue. It does not depend on humidity levels or anything like that.

If your models were produced before or after this period they should be safe.

Dan

Merlin226 · 10-17-2008, 11:04 AM

Ive got at least 8 out of 50 AC models affected. Will try and photograph a couple later.

ANA Mohican · 10-17-2008, 11:24 AM

BigBird Delta b737 PowerPuff
Production Year: 2002
Both wings curled upward and eventually fell off.

So far, this is the only one affected from my 175+ collection. I'm avoiding to purchase any models produced during 2002 & 2003.

Roarer · 10-17-2008, 11:46 AM

I know my feet look bad, but jeez, you seriously need to see a Podiatrist!!

I had to look a second time before I noticed the missing wings!!

diecast1964 · 10-17-2008, 12:21 PM

This is probably the biggest threat to our hobby. I am not collecting with financial objectives. So the future value of my models does not mean anything to me. But I do expect them to remain in a perfect condition over time!

I think a post like this is very helpful, if only to understand the extent of this problem. It is often minimized, but quite a few collectors seem to be hit anyway. So far, I have no problem in a 1000+ collection. But most models have not been inspected since long. This info does help. Both Disney BB400 B747s will be out of the box tonight!

Jan

Rudi · 10-17-2008, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diecast1964

This is probably the biggest threat to our hobby. I am not collecting with financial objectives. So the future value of my models does not mean anything to me. But I do expect them to remain in a perfect condition over time!

Exactly!!!

I have the Dream Express #4 and the Delta Power Puff. I'll inspect them soon.

I sold my Tucano version of the Dream Express to get the better version. I also took the full metal "Power Puff" instead of the Dagon Wings model.

Hope I didn't make two baaaaaaaaaaaaad mistakes.

Flughafen · 10-17-2008, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudi

Exactly!!!

I have the Dream Express #4 and the Delta Power Puff. I'll inspect them soon.

I sold my Tucano version of the Dream Express to get the better version. I also took the full metal "Power Puff" instead of the Dagon Wings model.

Hope I didn't make two baaaaaaaaaaaaad mistakes.

Also, beware and take care of your "Peter Max"

Junkcollector · 10-17-2008, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACpilot

This is limited to models produced in the AeroClassics/Big Bird 400 factory in late 2002/early 2003.

The explanation that I have heard that makes the most sense is that a factory worker used a wrong or faulty batch of metal.

Only a handful of my over 800 models have been affected.

AeroClassics CP-Air B737 (Empress of Montreal) - Released OCT 29 2002.

AeroClassics Pacific Western Canada B737s (All three releases) - DEC 12 2002.

The Big Bird JAL 50th in the photos above was released JAN 15 2003.

The China Southern B763 is actually an AeroClassics released APR 26 2003.

This is NOT an environmental issue. It does not depend on humidity levels or anything like that.

If your models were produced before or after this period they should be safe.

Dan

Thanks for the direct answer. I know its been posted before, but sometimes a thread is overlooked. A event like this w/o explanation could send many new and experienced collectors heading for the hills in an already soft economy.

Rudi · 10-17-2008, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flughafen

Also, beware and take care of your "Peter Max"

At least I have two different versions. Dream Jets and Dragon Wings. One should survive!!!

Jao · 10-17-2008, 09:14 PM

My Aeroclassics Great Wall B737 (please take a look at the landing gears)

gospodin · 10-17-2008, 09:29 PM

Those aren't models anymore, I'm afraid. They're trash now. Get rid of them, because they will start to make you see things wrong with other models in your collection, as well as just being eyesores. Eventually, you'll get depressed if they stick around, and you'll sell off your collection. Zincrotosis generally follows this pattern.

gospodin · 10-17-2008, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACpilot

This is limited to models produced in the AeroClassics/Big Bird 400 factory in late 2002/early 2003.

The explanation that I have heard that makes the most sense is that a factory worker used a wrong or faulty batch of metal.

Only a handful of my over 800 models have been affected.

AeroClassics CP-Air B737 (Empress of Montreal) - Released OCT 29 2002.

AeroClassics Pacific Western Canada B737s (All three releases) - DEC 12 2002.

The Big Bird JAL 50th in the photos above was released JAN 15 2003.

The China Southern B763 is actually an AeroClassics released APR 26 2003.

This is NOT an environmental issue. It does not depend on humidity levels or anything like that.

If your models were produced before or after this period they should be safe.

Dan

Add AeroClassics Air Tanzania 732 to that list, released in '03. It's got potato-chip wings.

Nasser · 10-17-2008, 10:47 PM

Jao, this is indeed depressing....

Bigbird400 · 10-18-2008, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roarer

Mr Klein obviously/maybe started out to try and bring pleasure to people though his models. It has now turned sour, either though his own fault of by chance through bad materials in manufacture.

But to then deny people talking about this??

That is entirely different altogether!!

I'd be curious to know what he has to say personally now.

Nothing can be said on the matter of the planes "cracking up" Climate plays a big part in it but there must flaws in some metals used. I have hundreds of these beauty's and have not suffered yet even from my older ones got back in the early 90's.

It seems that the money we pay for our models is just the same as putting it in a bank, you never know the future and could lose your money either way!

Alain Lee · 10-18-2008, 09:07 AM

Thanks for the info and the pics, its worst than I thought.....

UK_Dispatcher · 10-18-2008, 01:03 PM

I have an Aer Lingus B767-300 (EI-CAL) which has someting peculiar about it. On close inspection there seem to be subtle ripples under the paint. It sounds tinny when I put it down and the left wing is starting to bend upwards. Just checked the production date and it was 2003. I'm guessing I now have a model with zinc rot. Too bad.

diecast1964 · 10-19-2008, 02:27 PM

Too bad to see an informative thread like this resulting once again in another round of endless bashing... There is apparently still the - ridiculous - conviction that some one is right and some one is wrong in this discussion.
I expect this item to be locked soon while it would have been interesting to read the experiences of more collectors. Every time the issue of zinc rot comes up, I read about different models and different manufacturers involved. As written before, it would be good to get an idea about the true extent of this problem. But I doubt if we will ever get that far.

Jan

PS: I checked my BB400 Disney 4 and 5. Both models are still fine here.

tonycutrella · 10-19-2008, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diecast1964

Too bad to see an informative thread like this resulting once again in another round of endless bashing...

Agreed 100% pal. Some of our fellow collectors seem not to lose a chance to play the same, worn out song like a broken record even when interesting problems are on the table. Metal fatigue or whatever you wish to call it is a well-known issue amongst diecast collectors and has been discovered to affect early diecast car models, especially those produced around WWII. This is what I know:

It is caused by impurities contained in the zinc.
It can be described as an irreversible chemical reaction triggered by the presence of such impurities changing the molecular structure of the alloy, and which inevitably leads to permanent damage. In diecast models, this is known to appear as paint chipping, cracks or change of the shape of the objects.
It occurs randomly, as it depends on the level of impurities contained in each single model. This is obviously unknown and can’t be determined. Thus, while in the worst case scenario most of a production run might be contaminated, it might also happen that a single model out of an entire run might be unexpectedly affected.
It is also influenced by heat and light, and exposure to higher temperature and direct sunlight might enhance it. It should be clear however that storing models in a refrigerator in the dark will not avoid its occurrence. If the model was made with tainted metal, sooner or later the defect will surface and it may take several years to develop.

It is evident that what happened to AC models was definitely due to the use at some time of poor quality zinc for manufacturing. Whether this was accidental or due to negligence is neither known, nor is of any importance at this time. The problem is and remains on the table, either if people complain about bad luck or moral integrity or, on the other side, bury their heads in the sand like ostriches.
I think that the only useful option now is to make collectors aware of those models known to be affected, as there is no cure for this disease.

ANA Mohican · 10-19-2008, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roarer

I know my feet look bad, but jeez, you seriously need to see a Podiatrist!!

I had to look a second time before I noticed the missing wings!!

Yes. We, Hawaii residents, do not wear shoes and look what happened.

My Powerpuff is now used as Godzilla diorama. I guess its not a total loss.

JustPlaneCrazy · 10-19-2008, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANA Mohican

Yes. We, Hawaii residents, do not wear shoes and look what happened.

My Powerpuff is now used as Godzilla diorama. I guess its not a total loss.

Now that's original

I'm now in the process of inspecting all my 2002/2003 models, so far no problems...

More to look at......

fazeman · 10-19-2008, 06:14 PM

This is an important thread. Please refrain from going off topic so that everyone can duly list their aircraft affected, the manufacturer, date released, pictures and comments. Thanks.

Up to this point, I had one model infected by zinc plague. It was the SMA KLM 737-200 released in '03. I have long since thrown it away.

Garuda747400 · 10-19-2008, 06:53 PM

Are gemini models from 2003 also affected, i only have one aeroclassic model from 2003 as i didnt discover them until about mid 2006, out of the 2008 releases so far i have bought 101 models when i think about what just 2008 releases must have cost me i should be giveing this game up.
I have chased the SMA Air Tanzania a few times on ebay even though its a model that keeps popping his head up during these type of discussions, i have started to buy a few previous SMA models also , Air Bahama , Cayman, Air Nauru 737s and they are all fine my aeroclassic Air Tanzania F27 is fine also

Santos · 10-19-2008, 10:34 PM

Sadly I have two models affected by this problem, AC Canadian 767 and AC VARIG 707.

JustPlaneCrazy · 10-19-2008, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Tupolev

Of course you don't have problems, because Andrew only sends you the good stuff, gratis.

No, actually most all my 2002/2003 models came from Dave at JetCollector, and not all Aeroclassics, I'm checking all my models, AC, Gemini, Dragon, Phoenix, etc.

Been through about half and no problems from any company.

So Tupi, how many of your models are infected?

Jao · 10-19-2008, 11:37 PM

My AC China Eastern B737

Horizon CRJ700 · 10-20-2008, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Tupolev

I feel your pain. Has Andrew sent you any message regarding compensation.

Tupelov, STFU! This is getting obnoxious, and I think that you know it. Let's list the affected models to compile a database and warn potential collectors/buyers of the danger, not resort to the same old thing.

Sorry but I have lost all respect for you, and this is really getting old.

gospodin · 10-20-2008, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horizon CRJ700

Tupelov, STFU! This is getting obnoxious, and I think that you know it. Let's list the affected models to compile a database and warn potential collectors/buyers of the danger, not resort to the same old thing.

Sorry but I have lost all respect for you, and this is really getting old.

Yup, this Andrew Klein/AeroClassics conspiracy theory crap is getting waaay too stupid now. Other than a few of you out there (not to name names), nobody else gives a big rat's butt over this subject.

yflchoy · 10-20-2008, 06:57 AM

My list of affected models is:

AC Air China B767-300 (I have buy two and one as replacement, all have the same problem.)
BB Cathay Pacific B747-400 "1980s" Colors x 2
GJ Continental B777-200 N77006
GJ Delta B777-200 Olympics 2002s Colors
DW Japan Airlines B747-300 "Super Resort Express-Okinawa" Colors
GJ Kuwait B777-200
PX Air Namibia MD-11
AC Pakistan Airlines B720
DW Lufthansa B747-400 Hannover Expo
DW U-Land MD-82
Herpa Royal Jordanian A310
DW Singapore B777-200 "1990s" Colors
BB UPS B767-300 Panda Express

Surprisingly, while I think many members have views on Tucano models, I have some 20+ of their models and all are fine after all these years. It seems that they are the only brand free from the zinc rot problem.

Lawrence

Mystère · 10-20-2008, 11:51 AM

Only one : AC B707 Air France (one engine affected).

Bigbird400 · 10-20-2008, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mystère

Only one : AC B707 Air France (one engine affected).

Bugger, found two of my 1:500 Bigbird British Airways B747's with minor rear wing rot. Happy to say I have spare wings and rot has not got to the body

diecast1964 · 10-20-2008, 03:28 PM

Thanks for continuing this thread in a objective, rational way. Some of your lists of affected models are quite scary. It looks to me that almost all major model manufacturers have had their part in this problem.

How would storage conditions play in this matter? I have not yet found a model affected in my collection. All models are stored in the dark, dry, at normal temps. Models come out on display sometimes for a few weeks.

Jan

L-1011-Heavy · 10-20-2008, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yflchoy

My list of affected models is:

AC Air China B767-300 (I have buy two and one as replacement, all have the same problem.)
BB Cathay Pacific B747-400 "1980s" Colors x 2
GJ Continental B777-200 N77006
GJ Delta B777-200 Olympics 2002s Colors
DW Japan Airlines B747-300 "Super Resort Express-Okinawa" Colors
GJ Kuwait B777-200
PX Air Namibia MD-11
AC Pakistan Airlines B720
DW Lufthansa B747-400 Hannover Expo
DW U-Land MD-82
Herpa Royal Jordanian A310
DW Singapore B777-200 "1990s" Colors
BB UPS B767-300 Panda Express

Surprisingly, while I think many members have views on Tucano models, I have some 20+ of their models and all are fine after all these years. It seems that they are the only brand free from the zinc rot problem.

Lawrence

Thanks For That List.
There Seems To Be An Ever Growing Number Of Collectors With More Than A "Few Isolated" Affected Models.
Your List Is The Biggest I've Seen Yet From Gemini & Dragon, Which Up To This Point I Would Have Thought To Be The Most TRULY Isolated Cases.

I Will Have To Check These. I Have The Luck To Own These.
DW Lufthansa B747-400 Hannover Expo
DW Singapore B777-200 "1990s" Colors

I Sold My DW Japan Airlines B747-300 "Super Resort Express-Okinawa" Colors A Few Years Ago, But I Hope Their Model Is Not Affected.

mclyn · 10-20-2008, 04:39 PM

I've got a big pile warped zinc. A lot of the 737's have the rot too.

vagabond · 10-20-2008, 05:30 PM

On hearing this somewhat disturbing news about zinc rot, my AC Northwest B720 promptly parted company with both of its main gear bogies. And, on closer inspection, the wings seem to have developed some worrying swellings. Add this one to the list.

Midway1979 · 10-20-2008, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mclyn

I've got a big pile warped zinc. A lot of the 737's have the rot too.

That PW 732 looks just like mine. Fortunately, it was just the tail cracking last time I looked. Both of my PW 737-200s look the same.

Hawaiian · 10-20-2008, 08:59 PM

Well just finished checking all 715 of my models and there are no problems even though I have 12 of the ones that were listed earlier in this post with the rot issues.
My prized Disney Sea 747's are fine as of now.

fazeman · 10-20-2008, 09:03 PM

Please keep in mind that this thread concerns all manufacturers. Look at the title and the first two posts. Please leave all politics out so members can continue posting their defective models.

aritrixa · 10-20-2008, 09:23 PM

Dear all,

May I know how you stored the affected models? I am just curious whether there is any big difference on level of damage between displayed models and boxed models.
Thanks...

I just left all my collection thousand miles away and have no way to make a thorough checking.....

Hawaiian · 10-20-2008, 09:25 PM

I have 57 Aeroclassics, 325 Dragons, 257 Gemini's, 5 SMA's, 43 Big Birds, 4 Tucanos, 6 Herpa, and 18 others. Where in the post above have I become critical of a certain brand?

yflchoy · 10-20-2008, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L-1011-Heavy

Thanks For That List.
There Seems To Be An Ever Growing Number Of Collectors With More Than A "Few Isolated" Affected Models.
Your List Is The Biggest I've Seen Yet From Gemini & Dragon, Which Up To This Point I Would Have Thought To Be The Most TRULY Isolated Cases.

I Will Have To Check These. I Have The Luck To Own These.
DW Lufthansa B747-400 Hannover Expo
DW Singapore B777-200 "1990s" Colors

I Sold My DW Japan Airlines B747-300 "Super Resort Express-Okinawa" Colors A Few Years Ago, But I Hope Their Model Is Not Affected.

You should check your SQ 777-200, I heard from various collectors that they have the same problem with the model. For the Lufthansa Hannover Expo, so far, I am not aware of any other collector complaining the model and it may be only that I am bad luck.

Lawrence

L-1011-Heavy · 10-20-2008, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aritrixa

Dear all,

May I know how you stored the affected models? I am just curious whether there is any big difference on level of damage between displayed models and boxed models.
Thanks...

I just left all my collection thousand miles away and have no way to make a thorough checking.....

Let This Be CLEAR
Displaying Models, Humidity And Any Other Atmospheric Condition Have Absolutely NOTHING To Do With Zinc Plague.

Zinc Plague Has Been Proven To Be A Symptom Of Impurities And/Or Incorrect Alloy Mixing.
There Were 2 Threads Describing In Scientific Detail The Causes Of The Affected Models.
If Your Metal Is Impure You Will Run In To Porosity, Leading To Corrosion And Crumbling. That Is Why With Welding Shielding Gas Is Used To Protect Molten Metal From Just Such Impurities, Including Steel & Stainless Steel.

If Your Alloy Mix Is Incorrect, Electrolysis Will Occur, Which Leads To Severe Accelerated Corrosion. Zinc Is Used As A Sacrificial Anode Due To It's Corrosive And Conductive Properties To Protect Other Primary Metals.

If You Want To Read The Scientific Explanations, I Suggest You Search For These Threads Before You Comment On Storage Or Humidity.

yflchoy · 10-20-2008, 10:37 PM

I would also like to reply to Peewee's response to my post concerning the responses of different manufacturers (other than AC) about the zinc rot issue, their responses are as follows:

DW: They have asked me for photos for the affected models. After two months, they responded that all the complained models are out of stock and they cannot send me replacements.

GJ: They told me that they have never heard about the problem conerning their models. They also told me that if I want replacements, some of the models are still available at retailers and I can buy them myself.

Herpa: They asked me for photos of the affected models. After seeing the photos, they send me a new model for free.

Phoenix: No Response.

Lawrence

Santos · 10-20-2008, 10:46 PM

As always Herpa has the best customer service.

L-1011-Heavy · 10-20-2008, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yflchoy

I would also like to reply to Peewee's response to my post concerning the responses of different manufacturers (other than AC) about the zinc rot issue, their responses are as follows:

DW: They have asked me for photos for the affected models. After two months, they responded that all the complained models are out of stock and they cannot send me replacements.

GJ: They told me that they have never heard about the problem conerning their models. They also told me that if I want replacements, some of the models are still available at retailers and I can buy them myself.

Herpa: They asked me for photos of the affected models. After seeing the photos, they send me a new model for free.

Phoenix: No Response.

Lawrence

The Folks At Gemi Never Heard Of Die Cast Models Either...

aritrixa · 10-20-2008, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L-1011-Heavy

Let This Be CLEAR
Displaying Models, Humidity And Any Other Atmospheric Condition Have Absolutely NOTHING To Do With Zinc Plague.

Zinc Plague Has Been Proven To Be A Symptom Of Impurities And/Or Incorrect Alloy Mixing.
There Were 2 Threads Describing In Scientific Detail The Causes Of The Affected Models.
If Your Metal Is Impure You Will Run In To Porosity, Leading To Corrosion And Crumbling. That Is Why With Welding Shielding Gas Is Used To Protect Molten Metal From Just Such Impurities, Including Steel & Stainless Steel.

If Your Alloy Mix Is Incorrect, Electrolysis Will Occur, Which Leads To Severe Accelerated Corrosion. Zinc Is Used As A Sacrificial Anode Due To It's Corrosive And Conductive Properties To Protect Other Primary Metals.

If You Want To Read The Scientific Explanations, I Suggest You Search For These Threads Before You Comment On Storage Or Humidity.

Thanks....

One lesson learned today about metallurgy...