tonycutrella

You may check at #23 on this thread and other similar posts.

MrMD11

Have any of you guys put together an official list of all the reported models (based on make and model) compiled regarding the zinc-rot issue?

I would say that 90% of my diecast models, which are primarily GJ and DW, were purchased between 1999 and 2001.

Thanks.

David Hingtgen

It's less a "wrong mixture" and more "impurities caused by not cleaning things between batches, or just plain not monitoring things". Most often, lead. Even small amounts of lead can utterly ruin many alloys. And there's more than enough reports of lead in everything from toys to candy, to know that China simply does not care about lead getting in places it shouldn't...

In short, zinc rot is caused by lead. Zinc alloys should have NO lead.

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aviationcombr

Well, as SMA Pluna 737-200 wasn't listed as a model affected by zinc plague yet, I've bought it yesterday for a nice price ($15)... hope the little Boeing survive for a long time!

tonycutrella

A zinc alloy containing no lead simply does not exist. As a matter of fact, very tiny percentages of lead (<0.005%) are allowed in zamak alloys used in the die-cast toy industry.

I have done some additional checking on the net to discover a publication which is easily accessible as .pdf via Wikipedia (see Zamak). This report is entitled "Corrosion-induced cracking of model train zinc-aluminum die castings". It was published published in 2005 by the National Aerospace Laboratory of the Netherlands and is signed by R.J.H. Wanhill and T. Hattenberg. The work is based on scientific knowledge, not anecdotal evidence, and is properly referenced. Despite of the inevitable technicalities there are a few, clear issues that cut a long story short for good. Here I report such key points for those who do not wish to read the report:

Foreword

• Some models made from zinc-aluminum alloys produced in the first decades of XX century (and very regretfully not just those, as per what is above in this thread) have shown susceptibility to corrosion-induced cracking.

• The susceptibility varies but in severe cases leads to disintegration of the model.

• The corrosion is generally considered unstoppable.

Conclusions

• Corrosion of zinc die castings is an electrochemical process facilitated - or indeed caused - by small amounts of impurities in the metal, notably lead, cadmium and tin.

• Corrosion severity depends on alloy impurities, or other metals deliberately added, and also on the alloy grain or crystal size. The swelling of the castings that accompanies corrosion is due to corrosion product build-up in the cracks.

• Because the corrosion is electrochemical, it requires moisture to initiate and progress, which is why it proceeds inwards from external surfaces. The electrochemical nature also explains why higher temperatures accelerate the corrosion.

• A possible countermeasure is to apply parylene (a coating polymer used industrially as moisture barrier and electrical insulator) to suspect or slightly damaged items. Parylene installations are too expensive and specialized for private purchase and use. Coating would have to be done by specialist firms.

I hope that most of us suffering damage to their models may find a satisfactory answer to their questions, including all ifs, ands or buts concerning model display and storage conditions. Sadly, there is nothing anyone can do with what happened in the past other than steer clear from models known to be regularly hit by alloy fatigue. Both my PK and NW B720s (by AC) are affected, but they can still be displayed and I will never run "the risk" of replacing them.

LOT 737-300

Doesn't have to be Aeroclassics. There were 2 other well known brands made there when they had this issue back in late 2002-early 2003, SMAC and Big Bird. All 3 used the same factory at the time. I generally do my best to avoid most models made there around then, as I like to think of them as the Lancia Betas of Diecast airliners. Big Bird and SMAC are no longer around, Aeroclassics moved production to a new factory a few years back. Outside of this time era (late 2002-early 2003), all, if not most the models should be good (and I can back that up, having 2 models made almost 10 years ago)!

Doesn't mean that these are the only ones, there are isolated cases from all sorts of manufactures posted around.

Basically Dave said it best, lead impurities that got into the zamak batch that is used to make our models. Basically nothing that I know can be done to stop the affected models from becoming dust. You'll just have to either accept it, or if it's a model that you know is known for having the issue, accept that there is a risk involved here when you buy them. Of course, as said by Tony, and what one would learn by taking an introductory properties of materials class at a college, is that impurities will exist, as a "pure" materials are very rare to come by). Of course, most of these impurities occur at the molecular level too.

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L-1011-Heavy

I Think The Operative Word Is "Contaminant" Rather Than Impurity.


We're Not Looking For A Satisfactory Answer. Aside From The Obvious Anecdotes, Another Poster Had The Zinc Analized Scientifically In An Earlier Thread.
Seems Answering The Cause Is Redundant.
We're Looking For Replacements, But That's Not Likely To Happen Given The Monty Python Natured Individuals Of The Die Cast Business.

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gospodin

Well, they don't got much Spam in 'em.

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wingletguy

I bought a DW A340-600 NAS SAAD about 1-2 yrs ago.after sometime they started to show some bubbles,now the full model is covered in bubbles.the wings/engines r fine because they are plastic but the fuselage is totally damaged.

camaroz06

Oh noes, I just picked up one of those BB Power Puff 737s, also have a SMA 737-200 but in old colors and Frontier colors. Hopefully they be fine

Roland

This is worrying,just checked up my DW Lufthansa Hannover B747 and it shows some bubbles near the cockpit.This model was released in 2000/01 not the 02/03 time.Is this the beginning of this zinc rot?

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Roland

Here is another shot.

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L-1011-Heavy

It's Not Zinc Rot. Go Back Through The Many Threads On Zinc Plague To Find Your Problem.

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N. Eberhard

Speaking of which, does anybody have any info on the latest produced models to exhibit such 'zinc rot'?

MrMD11

Why don't you just give this guy a brief explanation on what the problem might be?

Roland

I read all the threads but I'm no wiser as some say it is rot,others say it's not.I'm new to this hobby and I'm new to this forum.Not a very friendly welcome here from some people.In future I won't ask for any help or advice.

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tonycutrella

Explanation? And why??
"They" want replacement!!!

tonycutrella

Roland,

As I posted above, I only have a very limited number of damaged pieces but saw several car models with this very problem.

IMHO, and as far as I can understand from pictures, it does not appear to be a problem of zinc fatigue, or at least a severe one. Do keep an eye on whether conditions worsen. Most of all, if cracks begin to appear on its surface or the model seems to "change shape", i.e. elongation or bending of parts. Several pictures in this thread and elsewhere can help you understand what I mean.

Should this happen, diagnosis can be confirmed as well as the ominous prognosis. Note however that at some point the problem will stop, so your model may actually be left "impaired" but might not crumble into pieces. It is almost like a battery-type phenomenon, it will run until the "charge" is exhausted.

Roland

Thanks for your reply.I will be keeping a very close eye on that model.It would have to be my favourite one.Lets hope she will survive.Just had another good look at her and she looks the same.It doesn't look like the dreaded zinc rot.I have seen the pictures,my god,it makes my stomach turn.Beautiful models turning to dust.I hope you don't have too many damaged ones.Which ones in your collection are affected?

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Spud25

I have just purchased 10 MD-11's made by DW and GJ and made between 98-01. Thankfully so far I see no MD-11's affected, but my fingers are now crossed tight.

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tonycutrella

So far, only a couple of Boeing 720 made by AC (Northwest & PIA). Both are already included in the list of the endangered species. I bought them about 5 yrs ago in pristine conditions at retaliers, but they started to show signs last year.

They have not yet crumbled, but the effect of the disease is evident, as they have slightly bent wings and engine pylons.

CarbonPlane

I've also seen this on diecast cars (usually old releases of Kyosho, UT). Impurities in the metal has been cited as the cause.

gospodin

I had a few early Franklin Mint models that started deteriorating. The hood of my 1949 Chrysler Town & Country convertible started cracking and fell off. FM had me return it (after 4 years of owning it!) and several others, and replaced them all, making me a lifelong customer.

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Prop-Jet Electra

Just finished reading each post for the first time. Such a terrible shame. When you buy something made of metal you expect it to be around for a while. I had many of the models on the list but they were all sold when I got out of 1:400 in 2007. Guess I'm fortunate but I feel bad for the people who bought them.

This pic proves that it's less of an environmental issue and more of a contamination/impurity thing



Left h-stab made from a good batch, right made from a bad batch

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9Y-ISA

Just going through this thread and want to know if this is the Chevron Canadian B767? So unfortunate as this is such a beautiful model. I really wanted to buy this model and chased a couple on Ebay but lost. Kinda now glad after seeing this. If this is prone to zinc rot I may change my mind. If its a "one off" thing then I may still consider buying it. If anyone else have this model can you pls. say if yours is affected or not?

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SQA380-842

When this thread pops up from time to time I get a little worried. Having started Ito collect since 1997, my collection involves no fewer than 20 big bird 747's from the early 2000's era. One of my gems is the CX747-400 in old colors (the one in my signature). Last time I checked several years ago it was still in one piece with no issues, but since my 700+ models are kept in boxes due Ito lack of space to display them, I don't have the luxury of eyeballing my models from time to times to keep track of its condition.

I sincerely hope GJ, PH, and even the larger 200 scale die casts don't have this zinc rot problem.

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plane737

Zinc rot, a collector's worst nightmare! I also have several BB'ds including your CX 744 90's colors as well as the BA World Tails birds. They seem to be doing just fine, no signs of any cracking or paint bubbles thank goodness. I also store them in their boxes, checking on them from time to time. Let's keep our fingers crossed!

Graham Bridges

Inter granular corrosion has been around a long time, as long as zinc alloy/mazak/zamak itself. Meccano Dinky Toys had this problem in 1936 but they were making lead components and zinc alloy stuff in the same factory. Some of their zinc alloy toys were cracking after 6 months sometimes. Their solution ? They sent out miniature bottles of varnish to those who complained and told them to apply several coats of it to the affected model in order to hold it together - true ! Time has marched on and generally the contamination no longer occurs in factories but in the "bought in" zinc ingots. Often reclaimed/recycled perhaps by dubious (Cheap) suppliers. I have read that much tighter QA/QC is in place by China's factories now. Hope this eases your collecting stresses and tensions a little.

airnewzealand2012

One of my air new Zealand Phoenix 777-300 reg oko has bubbles already appearing on the fuselage. Have not had this problem before!
No problems On the 773 okm yet which was bought at the same time.
In the bin the oko model goes

Bigbird400

I sold most of my Aeroclassics B707's as at least 12 had the Zinc Rot. The climate mine were kept in was also steady. I cannot see money being wasted. It has put me off collecting most 1:400 stuff now. I collect some 1;200 and hope these are okay in 10 years time. I only collect British Airways stuff now in 1:400. I have had no trouble with Geminijets and have many from day one by them. My Bigbird stuff is fine but I don't have that many now. Some 1:500 did suffer so I dumped them. Only three though. Gone back to trains now as they don't rot.

airport1-600

I was just at Red Caboose in New York yesterday, and the SMAC Delta widget 737-200 had major wing flex upward and paint cracking. Must have been on the shelf for years, like much of the other stuff there.

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QF707

I have just discovered to my absolute horror that what looks to be the beginings of "Zinc Rot" bubbling has appeared on the right upper and left lower wings of my 1:400 Blue Box Qantas "Boxing Kangaroo" tail 747-238. Is there ANYTHING I can do to stop this??? Has anyone else experienced this with Blue Box models???
qf707

Graham Bridges

Option 1. Keep looking at it
Option2. Chuck it in the bin

You can neither sell it nor repair it.

tonycutrella

Do you have a picture?

Metal fatigue initially apperas in most cases as change of shape, piece elongation and/or bending, and/or hairthin cracking, substequently extending like a web to the whole piece.

In these very cases, there is absolutely nothing you can do, but the phenomenon might contain itself depending on the level of contamination. Zinc rot works more or less like a battery, once the effect of contaminants is exhausted nothing else will happen forever. But while some models may crumble into dust during the process, others can still remain "alive" thought their value will obviously be nil.

The appearance of bubbling might however be a different issue, so do not despair and do not take any impulsive action. If you do not see any progress of the disease in the next few months, maybe your piece is tainted but not lost.

Good luck.

airport1-600

I'm considering buying a SMAC PSA 737-200, in 60's c/s, that was released in 2003. Does anybody else have this model, and if so, is your's affected?

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ELY707

My PSA is in mint condition but don't let that be a deciding factor. As you see from above posts, there are some good within many bad. If you can check the model first and it shows no signs of the plague then you're safe with it.

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tonycutrella

Yep, I have it!

Nope, so far!

SQA380-842

I recall visiting the red caboose in Xmas 08, asked the store keeper a question about the GJ 1/200 AA 757-200W and the response was pretty much along the lines of "no we don't have this model and you can stick it up ya @rse". No wonder his models has been sitting in the shelves rotting away!!!!!

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flaps

Well, I got worried after reading many pages on this post and took a look at some of my collection. After looking at 15 models , Dragon, Phoenix, Gemini and Jet X, no issues, open my Pokemon 747 by BigShooter or some crazy name company and holy crap, massive cracked paint, really ugly and kind of shocking when you find one of your babies with this issue.

Ok I feel a little better :-)

Flaps

airport1-600

The guy is a bit mean. I was so happy to find an Airwest DC-9, and there was no price on it. When I got to the counter, he wanted 50 dollars for it. No way!

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gospodin

I just looked at my SMAC PSA, and everything looked good...until I put it down. It collapsed on one side, so I picked it up to see what happened. The right side main gear crumbled...nothing wrong with any other part of the model, just that one gear fell apart and has cracks all through the strut and door. One bad part from the parts bin...how arbitrary is that?

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Steve







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JeffinMass

It also happened to Ford Explorers in the early 2002s. The steel was manufactured with the wrong consistency. Hence the paint cracked and did not adhere to the steel.

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twinjet_737

Same with mine. Mould DW for Big Shooter. Perfect miniature, althlogh the cracking problem with the paint!

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therealjustin

Anyone notice what looks like a paint rash(feels rough to touch) or cracking on any Hobby Master releases?

boeing747crazy

Don't htrow models away, plane crash diorama

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twinjet_737

In my opinion, brands should take responsibility for these defects, and showing respect for all his followers offer new replacement units, to all affected for this inconceivable situation.
But it beats me that this is not the philosophy of manufacturers ... what a shame!

Bae146-200

This has been discussed to death ... and well covered, particularly after
Adrian purchased a model from me, that he claimed to have zinc rot.

gospodin

That's actually a common problem with lacquers. They didn't get the mixture of paint to drying agent correct, so the paint shrank as it dried.

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Steve







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twinjet_737

Hi Steve; Yes, it might be the cause. This is my only unit with this problem. A terrible lost, once the mould is the most interesting for it's version...