Finally....the Fokker 100!

gospodin

Quote: Originally Posted by tonycutrella I agree on the former sentence, as endorsed in the appropriate thread of this forum, but I think that the latter is too much a subjective point of view for these facts: It is germane that the number of collector interested in KLM is by far greater than that of Mackey Airlines; KLM is the largest F.100 operator worldwide at this time, i.e. in this very "less than highly desired" livery. The number of posts of this thread seems to indicate that that people liking the F.100 is also bigger than those keen in the old Convair. In a nutshell, and IMHO, I think that while AC might at some day produce a KLM F.100, GJ would never ever make a Mackey CV-440. Yawn, I am sleepy...

Point taken. You got a spare pillow?

tonycutrella

Quote: Originally Posted by gospodin You got a spare pillow?

That's already taken!

David Hingtgen

Quote: Originally Posted by Chansen So I guess that Fokker site is wrong as that aircraft has registration of N850US.

The pic doesn't show it wearing N850US in that scheme---reg number can't be seen. It is however known to have worn PH-ZCI at the time, then later was repainted and seen wearing N850US. It is unlikely (but possible) that it wore N850US in triple-red. I doubt they actually have first-hand proof, they probably just looked up the production history like anyone else, and assumed that like every other US and AA plane, it only wore the PH-Zxx reg for temp fight testing, and was delivered to the airline with its "permanent" registry. But N850US/PH-ZCI was an exception to that rule.

::edit:: Actually, it probably is wearing PH-ZCI at the Fokker site picture. How to tell? Because you can't see it! If it was wearing N850US, it should be visible based on where the reg number is placed on a triple-red DC-9 and F-28. Nor is there a US flag, which'd also be there in front of the reg number if it was in full USAir colors/markings. We can see where the "N850US" should be in that pic (and where the flag should be), and they're not there.

Chansen

Quote: Originally Posted by David Hingtgen The pic doesn't show it wearing N850US in that scheme---reg number can't be seen. It is however known to have worn PH-ZCI at the time, then later was repainted and seen wearing N850US. It is unlikely (but possible) that it wore N850US in triple-red. I doubt they actually have first-hand proof, they probably just looked up the production history like anyone else, and assumed that like every other US and AA plane, it only wore the PH-Zxx reg for temp fight testing, and was delivered to the airline with its "permanent" registry. But N850US/PH-ZCI was an exception to that rule. ::edit:: Actually, it probably is wearing PH-ZCI at the Fokker site picture. How to tell? Because you can't see it! If it was wearing N850US, it should be visible based on where the reg number is placed on a triple-red DC-9 and F-28. Nor is there a US flag, which'd also be there in front of the reg number if it was in full USAir colors/markings. We can see where the "N850US" should be in that pic (and where the flag should be), and they're not there.

Thanks! Damn misleading site.

fazeman

Quote: Originally Posted by tonycutrella It is germane that the number of collector interested in KLM is by far greater than that of Mackey Airlines; KLM is the largest F.100 operator worldwide at this time, i.e. in this very "less than highly desired" livery. The number of posts of this thread seems to indicate that that people liking the F.100 is also bigger than those keen in the old Convair. In a nutshell, and IMHO, I think that while AC might at some day produce a KLM F.100, GJ would never ever make a Mackey CV-440.

My best take on the KLM F.100 as a first release has probably got more to do with KLM and GJ. Others will follow as agreements are made. And while this new release is very exciting, I believe that the F.-28 1000s & F.-28 4000s will be just as exciting if not more.

With regard to Aeroclassics' Mackey CV-440, I'm equally as excited as the Fokker examples. And just because they didn't release a major airline as a first release, I could care less. Consider this. Mackey Airlines merged with Eastern Airlines in 1967. The Mackey brand was maintained while the name was changed to Mackey International Airlines. Aeroclassics has done a great service by filling in the gaps that as you said, would never be filled by other manufacturers. In essence, Aeroclassics has given the collectors an airline that helps to complete the Florida/Bahamas scene during the '60s & '70s.

And that is what Aeroclassics does best; makes the picture complete.

Oh wait, Gemini released the Modern Air CV-990.

tonycutrella

Well, even if I can't appreciate the Mackey CV-440 it doesn't mean it is a bad model. I think it is legitimate to wonder why such livery would get the preference as the first issue and not one of the many major airlines who used it from mid-50s down to the 70s. Anyway, I am sure it made the day of those - not too many - collectors who might have flown on the aircraft and never considered that such model would have ever emerged from quasi-oblivion. You really never know!

The GJ Modern Air CV-990 was not a common bird but I happened to spot it occasionally at JFK and in European airports, especially in Germany. Jon Proctor's book says that Modern flew their 990s as far as BKK and JNB. One of them ws the first commercial jet ever to land in Antarctica. Indeed, I do not think that Mackey ws that visible outside of Florida though I have no information on this. Anyone helps?

Last, but not least, I didn't buy the AC Mackey but I do oen a GJ Modern Air 990!

Snooore....snoooore....

gospodin

Quote: Originally Posted by tonycutrella Well, even if I can't appreciate the Mackey CV-440 it doesn't mean it is a bad model. I think it is legitimate to wonder why such livery would get the preference as the first issue and not one of the many major airlines who used it from mid-50s down to the 70s. Anyway, I am sure it made the day of those - not too many - collectors who might have flown on the aircraft and never considered that such model would have ever emerged from quasi-oblivion. You really never know! The GJ Modern Air CV-990 was not a common bird but I happened to spot it occasionally at JFK and in European airports, especially in Germany. Jon Proctor's book says that Modern flew their 990s as far as BKK and JNB. One of them ws the first commercial jet ever to land in Antarctica. Indeed, I do not think that Mackey ws that visible outside of Florida though I have no information on this. Anyone helps? Last, but not least, I didn't buy the AC Mackey but I do oen a GJ Modern Air 990! Snooore....snoooore....

I have both the Mackey CV-440 (despite the obscure and less than desired livery) and the Modern Air CV-990...won't part with either. The Mackey is a little gem, and so is the Modern. I will also get the KLM F-100 for the same reason I got the Mackey...first in the series. I may have made issue on the fact that KLM wouldn't have been my first choice of this model, but it didn't mean I didn't want it or that it wasn't a beautiful little plane. I just thought that GJ should have released a first livery that the collectorate was clamoring for...and since most of the world's 1/400 diecast collectors are American, a US carrier might have made more sense. But that's just my opinion, for the 2 cents it's worth. Hey Tony, you need some Red Bull to keep you awake, man?

aviator8883

Quote: Originally Posted by gospodin Ok, the comparison is this: AeroClassics released an obscure and less than highly desired livery on its introduction to the CV-440 mould. GJ released its new F-100 with KLM, not obscure, but also less than highly desired. Any clearer? My point was that why didn't either company release a very desired livery on the launch of a new mould? People would be clamoring for these first issues. And they know what liveries are most in demand, they have sales figures to tell them that. Now you can go back to bed...

Steve, I think I do understand why manufacturers tend to do this.

There are many 1:400 scale collectors who are dieing to incorporate a decent F-100 to their collections. This desire alone will most likely make them buy this KLM sample, even though there might be other liveries they would rather get. If, lets say, an American F-100 had been released first, many collectors would not buy the KLM model afterwards, however, releasing the KLM first guarantees that there will be a good market for both. Owning a KLM F-100 won't stop most US collectors from buying the American release when it eventually comes.

This also applies to the CV-440, F-28, BAC 1-11, 737-900, etc.

aViatOr

fazeman

Quote: Originally Posted by aviator8883 Steve, I think I do understand why manufacturers tend to do this. There are many 1:400 scale collectors who are dieing to incorporate a decent F-100 to their collections. This desire alone will most likely make them buy this KLM sample, even though there might be other liveries they would rather get. If, lets say, an American F-100 had been released first, many collectors would not buy the KLM model afterwards, however, releasing the KLM first guarantees that there will be a good market for both. Owning a KLM F-100 won't stop most US collectors from buying the American release when it eventually comes. This also applies to the CV-440, F-28, BAC 1-11, 737-900, etc. aViatOr

Very insightful response.

piedmontster

Quote: Originally Posted by David Hingtgen The pic doesn't show it wearing N850US in that scheme---reg number can't be seen. It is however known to have worn PH-ZCI at the time, then later was repainted and seen wearing N850US. It is unlikely (but possible) that it wore N850US in triple-red. I doubt they actually have first-hand proof, they probably just looked up the production history like anyone else, and assumed that like every other US and AA plane, it only wore the PH-Zxx reg for temp fight testing, and was delivered to the airline with its "permanent" registry. But N850US/PH-ZCI was an exception to that rule. ::edit:: Actually, it probably is wearing PH-ZCI at the Fokker site picture. How to tell? Because you can't see it! If it was wearing N850US, it should be visible based on where the reg number is placed on a triple-red DC-9 and F-28. Nor is there a US flag, which'd also be there in front of the reg number if it was in full USAir colors/markings. We can see where the "N850US" should be in that pic (and where the flag should be), and they're not there.

I'm pretty sure that is the N850US airframe, but repainted in red/blue before entering service.

BTW, the F100 was the worst jet airplane I have ever flown, and 850US was the worst of them. We called it "Christine".

Looking forward to the model, but still hoping for a PI F-28 more.

flightopsguy

I hope we get F-28's of Altair, Empire, Piedmont, and F-100 of American. Still waiting for the CV-580 of Allegheny, North Central, and Republic/Northwest, among others! Maybe a DEN Ports of Call CV-990? (My pal flew them years ago).

David Hingtgen

An F-28 would require like a 100% new mold. Maybe the landing gear can be reused...

F-28 to F-100 is like DC-9-10 to MD-90. They share fuselage shape, but that's about it.

piedmontster

Quote: Originally Posted by David Hingtgen An F-28 would require like a 100% new mold. Maybe the landing gear can be reused... F-28 to F-100 is like DC-9-10 to MD-90. They share fuselage shape, but that's about it.

I was thinking Aeroclassics. I doubt GJ will do the F-28 for a while.

QFA388

I would like the US Airways dark blue livery so I can remove all the titles to represent Alliance Air's a/c as it appeared when first delivered into Australia.