hugo

Absolutely right SteveJ - if perhaps people wouldn't take photographs in zoom mode or whatever and show the model actual size virtually all these "major" flaws are not so obvious. I'm not sure why some are hyper critical - I know engineers can be totally a**l retentive about their products, and perhaps they are entitled to be - but from my point of view I do not have the knowledge or the ability to allow me to design and make the moulds so it is not my place to nitpick - I believe we are all entitled to discuss likes and dislikes in the liveries chosen - for example I dislike the Braniff jellybeans - in particular the fantasy versions that is my right - but it is not acceptable (in my view) to attack the model makers - I have the choice to buy or not buy - and if I don't like a model I don't buy it. The way virtually every thread descends to personal attacks is getting really out of hand - and yes I do blame a lot of this on Hangar400 and their moderators who have set an incredibly bad and hypocritical example.

Jet-X

Amen.

For other collectors - what Hugo pointed out is why most model makers don't participate on any forum.

A Tupolev

Great feedback! There are two types of collectors that post here. The first group are your average collector (which I feel I fall into) who enjoy the "scale model" aircraft for what they are, models of the actual aircraft, which can never be perfect reproductions. Then there is the "hardcore" obsessive, a**l retentive collector (most likly people with no other life), that are on the endless misssion of finding the perfect 1/400 reproduction of aircraft.
Let's have fun and enjoy the hobby for what it is grown men collecting toy planes.

__________________
More Tupolev planes please, Ty-114, Ty-134, Ty-144
My collection: http://www.diecastaircraftforum.com/...tion-3750.html

hugo

Interesting - I've just had a message censored on Hangar400 - This was about the old rules of their special club - but I suspect the fact that I started it by saying that the idiot Todd had kicked me out of the club for complaining about the choice of models was enough for those two, the idiot Todd and now Faheem to "use their power" - absolutely pathetic and of course totally counterproductive - and to think I have defended Faheem frequently - I DO NOT LIKE CENSORSHIP at all but this hypocritical mishmash from Hangar400 is really very silly. Of course deleting entries saves them from trying to justify their untenable position. All comes of letting the inmates out of the asylum - sheesh!

L-1011-Heavy

You DON"T Need To Be An Engineer To Have The Right To Nitpick. As A Customer, You Pay TOP Dollar For These Things. The Companies Do This For PROFIT. Any Person Willing To Spend Hard Earned Money On ANY Product Has A Right To Nitpick. If You Take That Person's Right Away, Then I'ts Fascism.


Let Me Get This Straight, It's Not OK For The Customer To Show OBVIOUS Flws That Are BLATANT (I Did Not Attack, Sorry) But It's OK For The Manufacturer To Attack The Person That Had The Guts To Point It Out?


That's Not A Choice, Either. It's A Fascist Choice. I Point These Problems Out To Have Them Corrected, But I Guess It's A CRIME To Want Them Fixed



You Need To Take These Things With A Grain Of Salt. That's The Position Any Manufacturer Should Take.
If I Were In Your Shoes I Wouldn't Have Any Problems With These Kinds Of Feedback. I Think I'd Find A Way To Ignore The Postings Way Out Of Line Of Which I Think Mine Is Not.
Matter Of Fact I Thought It Might Be Helpful To Improve Your Product.


There's More To life Than Extremes. If You've Been Following My Photoshopped Postings, My Corrected Work Is NOT 100% Either. But If It Looked Close, Then I'd Be A Happy Camper. The Gemini Mould Is About 80% Right, With Nose & Cockpit Near 100%. That's VERY Acceptable.
It's The WINGS That's Only 50%. Sorry, Not Good Enough.


Well I Am Rather "Heavy" But I Wasn't Always. Matter Of Fact I Was Fit & Trim, I Owned & LIVED On A Windsurfer, Have A Professional Water Ski, & In General Was An Outdoorsman, Photography, Camping, All That. My Life Changed Moving To The City. I Now Cook Gourmet. I'm Past The DVD Collecting Phase, I'm Now Back In To The Aviation Hobby.


You Talked About Grown Men Having Fun & Collecting Toys.
And I've ALWAYS Looked At My Models From low Angles, Ever Since I Was 5 When I Bulit My First Cutty Sark, Homemade Rigging & All! Now & Then When I Was Fit & Trim. Nothing Is Different I Like Looking At Models At Different Angles. Low, High, Front, Back Sides, Etc.

Gluteal Cleft? Hmmm. Most Of My Models Are On Fairly High Furniture. Most Times I Don't Have To Squat Unless I'm In The Mood. Other Times I Simply Pick The Frikkin' Thing Up & View The Low Angle.

Merry Christmas To You Too.

__________________

The Heavy Armada
"In The Absence Of Excellence, There Is Only Mediocrity."

L-1011-Heavy

True Drew! But I'm Thinking The Wings Should Be An Easy Fix For Gemini. (Am I The Only One That Bothers To Ask For Corrections?)
It's Shouldn't Be As Costly Say As The Fuselage To Get Fixed. Yes, The Rest Of the Model Is Awsome.
Awsome Is What I'm After, Totally Awsome!

__________________

The Heavy Armada
"In The Absence Of Excellence, There Is Only Mediocrity."

hugo

er - what's this reference to fascism? What has that got to do with anything and please define what you mean by the term - or is it just a word used as an insult? Exactly the point I was making - and who on earth said it was OK for manufacturers to attack their customer base? That is one of the main compaints about AK surely. If you look at a 1:400 Scale BAe146 from Jet-X - AS a 1:400 model it looks OK - blow it up and of course imperfections will show - as they did with the Gemini Jets - but as part of a diorama I would suggest these flaws do not show as clearly. You choose to be a perfectionist - well you are going to end up very frustrated as every time the manufacturers cure one ill another springs up - that's life.

And what pray is wrong with saying if you don't like a model don't buy it - you do exactly that and good luck to you. I don't call you a fascist because that is an entirely mis-applied term, indeed I wonder if you actually know what it means.

And now it's getting all personal again which is a shame

L-1011-Heavy

O I'll Spell It Out For You.

Facism: A Militant Motivated Political Group Or Individual (EI, Mussolini, Adolf Hitler) Designed To Control The Masses & Remove Thier Freedom Of Choice.

A Statement Of "Buy It Or Don't Buy It" Is Not Only Fascist, It's Borderline Dictatrorship. We Live In A Free Society With MANY Free Choices. When A Manufacturer Tells U To Fukk Of & Go Somewhere Else. That My Friend Is Fascism.

I'd Perfer More Choices Thank You Very Much.


You Pointed Out Earlier That I Wrongfully Attacked The Manufacturer. It Is Obvious You Read The Thread, But It's Also Obvious You Blatantly Omitted The Fact That Brian Attacked Me With Above Mentioned Words.

Nope Wasn't Trying To Insult. Just Asking A Question

__________________

The Heavy Armada
"In The Absence Of Excellence, There Is Only Mediocrity."

hugo

"The Fascist conception of the State is all-embracing; outside of it no human or spiritual values can exist, much less have value. Thus understood, Fascism is totalitarian, and the Fascist State—a synthesis and a unit inclusive of all values—interprets, develops, and potentiates the whole life of a people."

Basically then using your analogy - in a fascist state you don't get a choice - as the State has already decided the answers and choices - so having a choice to buy or not to buy negates the idea of fascism because you are allowing free choice!

A manufacturer acting as you have described is not a fascist - he may well be an autocrat and have possibly dictatorial ambitions - but I would suggest is more a fool and is certainly NOT a political movement, which is what fascism is - and I am not defending that philosophy.

Mystère

Heavy, do you realize that when you say "it's crap", "it's TOTALLY wrong", and so on, you are reducing the choices of people reading your posts ?...
Fascism isn't always where we expect it to be...

waiping

Well I think the choice of words is very important. I use tell people their work is crap but in the end it strain our relations. So I learn to use sentences like "the nose should be a bit higher/lower" instead of "the nose is fuggly". That former gives more indication of what needs to be done whereas the latter simply doesn't mean much.

__________________
Air Asia - NOT everyone can fly

My collection at: Waiping's Collection

L-1011-Heavy

Argueable. Fascism Is Not Limited To Political Gain. There's Financial Gain, Or An Attempt To Prevent Loss.
Fascism May Not Always Remove Choices Totally, But Limit Them.
Autocracy...Another Fancy Term...To Candy Coat A Kind Of Mild Or Moderate Fascist Kind Of Control...

__________________

The Heavy Armada
"In The Absence Of Excellence, There Is Only Mediocrity."

L-1011-Heavy

A Reverse Kind Of Pshychology. Well You May Be Right, But These Things Blow Over...
Or Sometimes Become Addictive...Curioisity....

__________________

The Heavy Armada
"In The Absence Of Excellence, There Is Only Mediocrity."

fazeman

Toupee,

You had me then you lost me. I can relate to the regular joe who is collecting model airplanes to fulfill part of his interest in aviation. This is good. Your discourse started to take a dive when you tried to make a distinction between two types of collectors. Well, your attempt made a crash landing.

The regular joe is typically hardcore in collecting as many models as possible. Joe also becomes obsessed with these models because of their purported "as real as it gets" quality. Naturally, this will lead to the endless quest for the best. In this market driven economy, these companies better damned well "git 'r done."

With regard to having no life or getting a life, as grown men, we pursue the best women, best castles and fastest cars. What's your threshold? Skanky?

Hmm...Me smell low-grade BAe 146. Me devour.

__________________
Steve

A Tupolev

So you are telling us Andrew Klien is a fascist, like Adolf Hitler? I thought you was one of his loyal fans.

__________________
More Tupolev planes please, Ty-114, Ty-134, Ty-144
My collection: http://www.diecastaircraftforum.com/...tion-3750.html

gospodin

B*tch b*tch b*tch b*tch b*tch b*tch b*tch b*tch b*tch b*tch b*tch b*tch... Doesn't ANYBODY like the models they make anymore? Everybody is busy ripping the models and each other all the time. Hey, who gives a flying PHUCK whether the anhedral is 90 degrees perpendicular to their *** or whatever, the engines are dragging on the ground if the mould is green...AARRggghhh! Enjoy your toys, kids...it's almost Christmas....

__________________
Steve


When you wish upon a star, your dreams could come true. Except if it's a comet heading for Earth, then you and everybody else are pretty much hosed. Unless your wish was death by comet.

L-1011-Heavy

I'm Not Naming Anyone Here Fascist, Not Andrew, Not Brian But Certainly Fascist Remarks.
And Basically, I'm Not That Extreme. I just Needed To Make A Point To Hugo.

I'm Not Loyal To Anyone Per Say. I'm Loyal To QUALITY.
I was Asked If I was Leaning Towards Aerocassicss....Well Yes & No. For YEARS DW Was My Fave. Highest Realism On A Lot Of Thier Moulds. I was On An Insatiable Buying Warpath For DW.
Introducing Aeroclassics 2nd Gen Moulds. 737-200 on Canadi>n Liveries No Less. The Pac Wests. 3 of Them. Fantastic Moulds.
Lukewarm Interest.
To Make A Long Story Short, DW Quallity Has Suffered. For Several Years Releasing Unintersting Subjects (To Me) Or Get The Colors Wrong On the Ones I Do Want. If You Think I'm Bad On The Forums, You Should See The Equivalent Of A Weeks Worth of Typing I Did In A 2 Year Period To DW Care Site. I think I Still Have 2 Pages In My Inbox Somewhere. Basically I Gave Up Complainng To Or About DW.
Aeroclassics Have Ever Grown On Me.
The FABULOUS DC-8s, 737s, 767s, 1049s, 727s Are Not Too Bad, Either & The Subject Matter Is What Appeals To Me Most. I've Been A Fan Of 70s 80s & 90s Liveries All Along, But Ever More So The 70s. Seems Aeroclassics Is Fiting The Bill In That Dept Very Well.
And You Should See My Canadiana Stuff. It's Like Heaven On Earth.
Quebecair, Nordair, Wardair, TCA & Air Canada By The Fleetload. F-27s, Bac-111s, DC-3s, DC-8s 727s,L-188s 737s, 707s, 747s Galore. & The Odd DC-9 & CV-990. As Much Variiety In Airframes As Liveries Or Even More Than Liveries...
& The Recent CANADI>N 737s Took My Fleet To A Whole New Level. I'm Ecstatic. It's My Holy Grail Fleet! (Though It's Predominantly From The 90s)
Bottom Line I'm Loyal To My Collection. I don't Care If It Was Made By George Bush Jr. Or Osama Bin Laden. And I'm Gonna Point Out Flaws Until It's Done Right.
To Understand My Sentiment Towards My Holy Grails, Look At Your Wishlist.
The TU-114 Will Become A Reality. I Wonder If You'll Hold Such A Grudge When Andrew Makes It In 2007...Bet You'll Find SOME Sort Of Sneaky Way To Get Them...
Bottom Line, Aeroclassics Are My Replacement For Dragon Wings...Who I Never Overlook. The Etihad A 380 Released In October Is AMAZING!

I Think You Will Be Missing Out If You Boycott Aeroclassics. You May Be Attempting To Get A Point Across, But In The End You'll Lose Out More Than Aeroclassics Will.
I For One Don't Want To See A Collector Lose Out Because Of The Politics Of This Hobby. You'll Feel Better In The Long Run If You Overlook The Postings Directed At You & Others. At the end Of The Day, It Really Means Nothing. At Least To Me It Doesn't. I Take EVERYTHING With A Grain Of Salt To A Certain Degree & Find A Way To Get On With Collecting, Despite The S hit I Sometimes Run Into.

Merry Christmas MR A Tupolev, Enjoy Your Visit To Russia. Must admit, I'm a Bit Jealous There..

Heavy out!

__________________

The Heavy Armada
"In The Absence Of Excellence, There Is Only Mediocrity."

dylan

No Steve, Tupolev did make sense in that there are two collectors; Joe and Hardcore. Joe can become hardcore....but I can't seem to see your logic on how he han be both at the same time.

Maybe when I'm in my mid-forties, Like you and Rick, I will graduate from "I don't give a f uck what mould it's on, as long as it gets made" to: "Jesus H Christ, look at this crap! UNACCEPTABLE!"

__________________
mmmmm, beer.

fazeman

And with that said, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year! See y'all in 07.

__________________
Steve