11-26-2006, 12:53 PM
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#1
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El Chupacabra
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Ceti Alpha V
Age: 54
Posts: 5,069
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VC-10 cut lines
Does anyone know why they have "cut here" in small blocks on the top of the fuselage of the GJ VC-10? It doesn't appear on photos of the real plane, or on any other models from DW or AC, only on a few GJ planes (this being one of them).
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 Steve
It's possible that the whole purpose of your life is to serve as a warning to others...
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11-26-2006, 03:14 PM
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#2
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Where's my "avatar"?
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Dr. Evil's secret lair
Posts: 526
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It is a British thing, you see it on some carriers from their (former) colonies also. It indicates spots on the fuselage where you can cut thru without the risk you encounter some wires or things.
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11-26-2006, 03:46 PM
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#3
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Setting The Pace
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Virginia Beach, Va.
Age: 51
Posts: 2,993
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Yeah, the "cut here" blocks were placed there after the old James Bond production company cut through the wrong area for an intense escape scene in Her Majesty's Secret Service. They decided to do it fleetwide. It's a British thing. 
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 Steve
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11-26-2006, 04:01 PM
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#4
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Everyone Is A Toaster!
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The Cylon Colony, Eh? Trijets & Landors 4 EVER
Age: 47
Posts: 7,022
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Evil
It is a British thing, you see it on some carriers from their (former) colonies also. It indicates spots on the fuselage where you can cut thru without the risk you encounter some wires or things.
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Cripes Not Just Wires, But Structural Cross Sections! Cut Through That You Replace The Entire Cross Section/Plug!.
But Also I Think In The Event Of A Crash, It's Easier To Cut Through With Lighter Cutting Tools To Create An Emergency Escape Route.
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11-26-2006, 04:24 PM
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#5
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El Chupacabra
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Ceti Alpha V
Age: 54
Posts: 5,069
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The emergency escape thing was what I was thinking, so that rescuers wouldn't encounter a crossmember, but all of the information was interesting. I didn't realize it was just on British planes, but not the modern ones, I've noticed. Thanks, guys.
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Steve
It's possible that the whole purpose of your life is to serve as a warning to others...
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11-26-2006, 06:23 PM
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#6
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Junior Collector
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Scotland
Posts: 22
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You'll still see the four red L's at the corners of the 'cut here' section on most planes in the British Airways fleet to this day. On the Airbuses, they're around windows in between the doors, while Boeings have them in the roof section of the fuselage.
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11-26-2006, 06:44 PM
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#7
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El Chupacabra
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Ceti Alpha V
Age: 54
Posts: 5,069
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I only have three BA planes in my fleet...the Concorde, an ERJ-145 and the VC-10, so that's why I didn't see any others with the cut here marks. I have a BOAC VC-10 and the Comet, no cut marks on them.
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Steve
It's possible that the whole purpose of your life is to serve as a warning to others...
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11-26-2006, 07:56 PM
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#8
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Unlicensed Collector
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,367
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I am not sure the cut-here area would be effective in a crash.
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11-26-2006, 08:22 PM
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#9
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Jet Clipper "Benton" VTOL
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: America
Posts: 200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waiping
I am not sure the cut-here area would be effective in a crash.
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Wow, with your knowledge maybe you should go and advise Boieng or Airbus
on saftey and aircraft construction. 
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Saturday mornings rocked!
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11-26-2006, 09:16 PM
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#10
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Everyone Is A Toaster!
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The Cylon Colony, Eh? Trijets & Landors 4 EVER
Age: 47
Posts: 7,022
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I Think He Means When An Aircraft Is Ripped To Pieces Or Burned To Nothing. There Are Times The Cut Lines Do Mean Nothing As In The Eastern Flight 401 Or
Value Jet 592.
I think The Operative Word Here Is Crash Land Whereby The Fuselage Is Still Intact Which Of Course Is Where The Cut Lines Are Necessary.
So Waiping Is Not Quite Correct, But I Get The Jist Of What He's Saying.
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11-27-2006, 01:19 AM
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#11
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Unlicensed Collector
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L-1011-Heavy
I Think He Means When An Aircraft Is Ripped To Pieces Or Burned To Nothing. There Are Times The Cut Lines Do Mean Nothing As In The Eastern Flight 401 Or
Value Jet 592.
I think The Operative Word Here Is Crash Land Whereby The Fuselage Is Still Intact Which Of Course Is Where The Cut Lines Are Necessary.
So Waiping Is Not Quite Correct, But I Get The Jist Of What He's Saying.
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Exactly. From what I have noticed it's either the plane is in 1 piece - which does not warrant cutting through the fuselage, or there is no more fuselage to cut!
No need to be harsh Silverbird. I know you and I do not always share the same opinion but I do respect your opinions such as the one about special scheme on airliners.
Last edited by waiping; 11-27-2006 at 01:30 AM.
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11-27-2006, 01:42 AM
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#12
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Insane Collector
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Age: 36
Posts: 1,541
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Just because it might crash in one piece who is to say all areas are easily accessible? What if it breaks apart in two and one can't enter from the broken part of the fuselage or if someone is trapped somewhere?
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11-27-2006, 02:02 AM
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#13
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Unlicensed Collector
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sammyk
Just because it might crash in one piece who is to say all areas are easily accessible? What if it breaks apart in two and one can't enter from the broken part of the fuselage or if someone is trapped somewhere?
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Interesting point. Has anyone came across situation whereby rescuers have to cut through the fuselage to get to the trapped passengers on time?
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11-27-2006, 03:23 AM
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#14
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Dr. Diecast I presume?
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Spokane, WA
Age: 46
Posts: 4,653
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I seriously doubt that the 'cut here' lines were used when the VC-10 was in service. But I could be wrong for the first time today. 
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11-27-2006, 07:33 AM
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#15
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Junior Collector
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Scotland
Posts: 22
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A quick search on Google found a bit more information about the 'Cut Here in Emergency' markings. They have been compulsory on all UK registered aircraft (and many Commonwealth countries too) at least since 1962, where the max weight is over 8,000 lbs.
A Civil Aviation Authority (the UK's equivalent of the US FAA) specification from 1962, tells us that:
"The position of the points should be such that in the event of a crash in which the final attitude of the aeroplane renders the normal and emergency exits useless for the rapid evacuation of trapped occupants, there will be for each passenger compartment at least one point in a position convenient for use."
and:
"The positioning and size of break-in points should be chosen so that an unobstructed entry into the passenger compartment can be made without the need to cut through any massive structural members, supply pipes, electric cables or internal fitments such as luggage racks. Ideally, the points should be chosen so that it is only necessary to cut through the skin, light structural members and the internal furnishing lining material."
Last edited by fv24; 11-27-2006 at 07:48 AM.
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11-27-2006, 08:03 AM
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#16
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Complete Wacko!
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pakistan
Posts: 7,752
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If I'm not mistaken, don't the B.Bird Saudia 741's and 743's also have them?
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11-27-2006, 10:57 AM
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#17
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Insane Collector
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: At the airport of Amsterdam
Posts: 1,132
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I know Garuda, Cathay Pacific and Dragonair have them on their planes.
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11-27-2006, 12:50 PM
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#18
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Dr. Diecast I presume?
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Spokane, WA
Age: 46
Posts: 4,653
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Interesting. So when was the VC10 removed from service by UK airlines?
Quote:
Originally Posted by fv24
A quick search on Google found a bit more information about the 'Cut Here in Emergency' markings. They have been compulsory on all UK registered aircraft (and many Commonwealth countries too) at least since 1962, where the max weight is over 8,000 lbs.
A Civil Aviation Authority (the UK's equivalent of the US FAA) specification from 1962, tells us that:
"The position of the points should be such that in the event of a crash in which the final attitude of the aeroplane renders the normal and emergency exits useless for the rapid evacuation of trapped occupants, there will be for each passenger compartment at least one point in a position convenient for use."
and:
"The positioning and size of break-in points should be chosen so that an unobstructed entry into the passenger compartment can be made without the need to cut through any massive structural members, supply pipes, electric cables or internal fitments such as luggage racks. Ideally, the points should be chosen so that it is only necessary to cut through the skin, light structural members and the internal furnishing lining material."
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11-27-2006, 01:34 PM
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#19
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Senior Collector
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: London
Age: 60
Posts: 300
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Br.Caledonian 1974
Br.Airways (last Standard) 1979; (Supers) 1981
Dave
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11-27-2006, 05:25 PM
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#20
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Junior Collector
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Scotland
Posts: 22
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The marks are visible on the BCal VC-10 in this view, and also in this BOAC Super VC-10.
I find it amazing that AeroClassics didn't include them. 
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11-27-2006, 06:32 PM
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#21
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Everyone Is A Toaster!
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The Cylon Colony, Eh? Trijets & Landors 4 EVER
Age: 47
Posts: 7,022
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You Know Those Are BARELY Visible. As A Young Boy I Never Even Noticed The Cut Marks & Yes I Spotted The B-Cal & BOAC VC-10s Once In Heathrow & Many Times In Frankfurt. I Don't Mind They Are Not Included.
Matter Of Fact The Problem With Printing Those Marks In This Scale Is The Fact They are TOO Noticeable. This Is A Nitpick IMO.
But Did You Seec That Poor B-Cal? Her Back Is Broken...Very Sad....
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11-28-2006, 01:28 AM
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#22
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Jet Clipper "Benton" VTOL
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: America
Posts: 200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waiping
Exactly. From what I have noticed it's either the plane is in 1 piece - which does not warrant cutting through the fuselage, or there is no more fuselage to cut!
No need to be harsh Silverbird. I know you and I do not always share the same opinion but I do respect your opinions such as the one about special scheme on airliners.
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Well this is DAC "The Wild, Wild World of Diecast Collecting" where anything goes.
Some of these comments show a basic lack of understanding on aircraft structures, once again you might stop looking at airliners.net and go look at some real airplanes, read some material on aircraft structures, then you will see the reasoning (and the need) for "cut here" boxes and many other things.
Many many details are lost on a small model of 1/400 scale...it's almost like apples to oranges (1/400 to the real thing).
I have found a few of the "colorful" liveries somewhat interesting, but there's NO WAY any of them are worth $75 - $100....not for a little metal model.
Instead how about going and buying the Airframe/Powerplant FAA books
that have the answers to the questions posted here.
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Last edited by silverbird707; 11-28-2006 at 11:47 AM.
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11-28-2006, 04:44 AM
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#23
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Unlicensed Collector
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverbird707
Some of these comments show a basic lack of understanding on aircraft structures, once again you might stop looking at airliners.net and go look at some real airplanes, read some material on aircratf structures, then you will see the reasoning (and the need) for "cut here" boxes and many other things.
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Huh, I thought airlines should follow guidelines set by the authority. Pictures are the real deal whereas books are just theories.
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverbird707
Many many details are lost on a small model of 1/400 scale...it's almost like apples to oranges (1/400 to the real thing).
I have found a few of the "colorful" liveries somewhat interesting, but there's NO WAY any of them are worth $75 - $100....not for a little metal model.
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I would be a bit lenient and say it's like comparing an orange with mandarin lime. For me there's a lot of differences between an apple and an orange. For a start they both have the same scale!  Of course some details might be lost that's why we judge individual manufacturer differently. Personally I would not spend more than a certain amount on a model. USD75 is a bit steep for me but it may not be for others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverbird707
Instead how about going and buying the Airframe/Powerplant FAA books that have the answers to the questions posted here.
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I don't understand. Since books do not tally with airliners pictures, why read books that do not reflect true scenario?
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11-28-2006, 11:57 AM
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#24
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Jet Clipper "Benton" VTOL
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: America
Posts: 200
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Huh, I thought airlines should follow guidelines set by the authority. Pictures are the real deal whereas books are just theories.
Wrong FAA books, maintenance manuals & structural manuals are NOT theory....shows you know zilch, and that's why you pose ridiculous questions and make uninformed statements.
I would be a bit lenient and say it's like comparing an orange with mandarin lime. For me there's a lot of differences between an apple and an orange.
Geez....you totally missed the point, not surprising!
I don't understand. Since books do not tally with airliners pictures, why read books that do not reflect true scenario?
OK then, don't read a book, instead look at Airliners.net, scratching your thick skull wondering gee....what's that for, it's not on my 1/400 model so it must not be right.
You can lead a horse to water......
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Saturday mornings rocked!
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11-28-2006, 01:12 PM
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#25
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Insane Collector
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Stony Brook, N.Y.
Posts: 1,835
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fv24
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And lets not forget that AC charges $5.00 more to skip details like that.
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11-28-2006, 02:38 PM
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#26
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Where's my "avatar"?
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Dr. Evil's secret lair
Posts: 526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STEVEJ
And lets not forget that AC charges $5.00 more to skip details like that. |
Yeah, because Klink doesn't like blocked windows and cut here lines...
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"I'm surrounded by freakin' idiots..."
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11-28-2006, 04:29 PM
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#27
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Member
Join Date: Jan 1999
Age: 24
Posts: 5,942
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Someone's quite bitter today...
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11-28-2006, 05:12 PM
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#28
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Where's my "avatar"?
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Dr. Evil's secret lair
Posts: 526
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Yeah... you right.
Still love that Gemini BA B747-400 with both on it. Adds a lot if you'd ask me.
__________________
"I'm surrounded by freakin' idiots..."
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11-28-2006, 05:18 PM
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#29
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Member
Join Date: Jan 1999
Age: 24
Posts: 5,942
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Evil
Yeah... you right.
Still love that Gemini BA B747-400 with both on it. Adds a lot if you'd ask me.
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Well wasn't really refrencing to you more of a silver birdie that seems to be on a roll, but you can be bitter too. I still think that Garuda 747s should have No Cut Markings.
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11-28-2006, 07:34 PM
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#30
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Unlicensed Collector
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverbird707
Wrong FAA books, maintenance manuals & structural manuals are NOT theory....shows you know zilch, and that's why you pose ridiculous questions and make uninformed statements.
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I admit that I do not know much about planes. I am not here to teach people something that I do not know. If you know so much why don't you inform us. I am sure this would be useful info for everyone. Or you do not know the answer since you contradicted your own statement. First you say don't follow the pictures in a.net, then you say follow the pictures.
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverbird707
Geez....you totally missed the point, not surprising!
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I agree I missed your point. Then again, what point are you referring to? Why some models have the "cut here" whereas other didn't bother to put them in? Quality issues, perhaps? Since it's a 1/400 scale model let's just omit this and that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverbird707
OK then, don't read a book, instead look at Airliners.net, scratching your thick skull wondering gee....what's that for, it's not on my 1/400 model so it must not be right.
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You seems to be quite good at contradicting yourself, huh?
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverbird707
You can lead a horse to water......
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Don't worry, I don't have a S on my chest. What I can do you can too!
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11-28-2006, 07:44 PM
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#31
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Unlicensed Collector
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB
Well wasn't really refrencing to you more of a silver birdie that seems to be on a roll, but you can be bitter too. I still think that Garuda 747s should have No Cut Markings.
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Maybe he's having his "period".
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11-28-2006, 11:20 PM
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#32
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El Chupacabra
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Ceti Alpha V
Age: 54
Posts: 5,069
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I was checking my fleet, and I noticed them on a Herpa United 777, so I guess it's not limited to the BA planes. All this info is great, I learn something new everytime I log in...
__________________
Steve
It's possible that the whole purpose of your life is to serve as a warning to others...
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11-29-2006, 01:17 AM
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#33
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Jet Clipper "Benton" VTOL
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: America
Posts: 200
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Dac has gone to the dogs...or Junior Woodchucks
I give up trying to get a point across..... 
Waiping....stay calm...don't move...I'll phone the authorities, seems a small town has lost their village idiot.
__________________
Saturday mornings rocked!
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11-29-2006, 01:29 AM
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#34
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Retro Junkie
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: IN HELL!!!! Gotta Get Out!!!
Age: 39
Posts: 2,930
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waiping
Maybe he's having his "period". |
Waiping,It seems we have a new N2272V on our hands. Whatever happened to good ol' Jim. I miss him with this guy posting .
Last edited by psalover; 11-29-2006 at 01:44 AM.
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11-29-2006, 01:39 AM
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#35
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Unlicensed Collector
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverbird707
Dac has gone to the dogs...or Junior Woodchucks
I give up trying to get a point across.....
Waiping....stay calm...don't move...I'll phone the authorities, seems a small town has lost their village idiot. |
I'll be here...the next tab is pointed to a.net.
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11-29-2006, 02:29 AM
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#36
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Insane Collector
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: At the airport of Amsterdam
Posts: 1,132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gospodin
I was checking my fleet, and I noticed them on a Herpa United 777, so I guess it's not limited to the BA planes. All this info is great, I learn something new everytime I log in...
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I am pretty sure that is a mistake from Herpa. IFAIK, UAL never had them on their planes.
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11-29-2006, 07:04 AM
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#37
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sometimes Zathras
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: western NY
Posts: 1,267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gospodin
Does anyone know why they have "cut here" in small blocks on the top of the fuselage of the GJ VC-10? It doesn't appear on photos of the real plane, or on any other models from DW or AC, only on a few GJ planes (this being one of them).
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.....I may be wrong, but I do remember some of these same markings on U.S. military planes.
Dave
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09-28-2007, 07:18 PM
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#38
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Junior Collector
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Lincoln, Lincolnshire, UK
Posts: 19
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Re: VC-10 cut lines
Quote:
Originally Posted by L-1011-Heavy
But Did You Seec That Poor B-Cal? Her Back Is Broken...Very Sad....
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Are you referring to G-ARTA, the VC10 prototype that was brought to service standard and sold to BCal as modelled by GJ? She was scrapped a few years after a heavy landing in which the spoilers were raised while the aircraft was still a few feet above the ground.
Joseph
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09-28-2007, 09:06 PM
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#39
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Insane Collector
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,842
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Re: VC-10 cut lines
Quote:
Originally Posted by gospodin
I was checking my fleet, and I noticed them on a Herpa United 777, so I guess it's not limited to the BA planes. All this info is great, I learn something new everytime I log in...
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Correct, some Qantas aircraft have them also.
It appears due to regulatory inconsistency, that no-one is right or wrong with their opinions.
Just depends on whether an airline wants their pax to survive or not
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09-28-2007, 09:22 PM
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#40
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*
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Iowa
Posts: 4,726
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Re: VC-10 cut lines
I prefer the markings to be left off. They're barely visible in real life--they shouldn't be obvious at 1/400.
Same for cargo doors. Door outlines are nearly invisible even from pretty close range in 1/1. Yet there's thick black lines at 1/400??????
Printing on subtle markings like that is like printing on each individual rivet---so small that they should be ignored at 1/72 scale, much less 1/200 or 1/400.
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09-29-2007, 12:31 AM
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#41
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Aussie Icon
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Sale, Victoria (Home of the RAAF Roulettes)
Age: 45
Posts: 653
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Re: VC-10 cut lines
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverbird707
Waiping....stay calm...don't move...I'll phone the authorities, seems a small town has lost their village idiot.
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Why would a town lose a village idiot? I suspect their response would be 'stay on the line silverbird; we'll send someone to come and get you' 
I am sure we are all sooo impressed to have the likes of an 'expert' such as yourself visiting this humble forum. I know that I am beside myself as I bask in you truely superior knowledge of all things aeronautical. Perhaps you should include all of your post-nominals in your signature block so we can kneel down in front of our monitors.
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