No more aero classics ? - Page 4

Garuda747400 · 10-19-2006, 07:38 PM

5/ The Oasis 747 models were not produced in this factory off the Big Bird moulds, therefore they are not Big Bird!! That is called "deceit".
How much of a tongue lashing would I get from some of you hipocrites if I released my next model in a box labelled "Gemini Jets" or "Herpa". Would that be considered "criminal" or "deceptive", or defended as normal practice.

seems mr klein has cleared up the rumours on his leaving party, and that leaving party is cancelled and mr klein will be staying around which is good for all who loves his work.
on the above note, after definetly wanting the BIG BIRD oasis hong kong in my collection to read it is deceitful and not big bird, is confusing, is klein aeroclassics/big bird or both . and if its not big bird where is it coming from, and if my understanding of klein is correct then he makes a good bloody point calling the companys criminals.
and probably why i have very few big bird, and if mr klein is the real owner with rights to big bird and being affected by the fake big bird he has my support to rant on, just wish i knew the difference to be honest

why cant where ever the model really comes from use there own name, looks like re-branding would only benefit the company who releases them.

cathay747 · 10-19-2006, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustPlaneCrazy

Come on Dave, Andrew has posted a hundred times in countless threads why he doesn't like BluNutz and what they did (and do) wrong....I can't believe you haven't read it over and over.....

All right, I'm going to throw in MY two cents here.

First of all, Andrew Klein seems to think he is the voice of God passing down the 10 Commandments of 1/400 collecting. I do not recognize his authority. Mr. Klein is a MANUFACTURER, and if he has a problem with other entities making & marketing products that are allegedly not licensed, then he should take it up with Boeing & Airbus. You see, big companies like that pay lawyers to deal with issues like that. In the meantime, Mr. Klein should take an example from GJ and IF and DW and not constantly rant & rave about these issues to collectors in a public forum. It's not pretty. And threatening distributors and/or retailers with cutting them off from his product is HARDLY good business!

Second, the PRC is well known to be a rat's nest of copyright & intellectual rights infringement. Look at the entertainment industry, for Christ's sake! Those big powerful companies have been rather powerless to stop pirating of DVD's and video games, etc., because the PRC govt. basically does nothing to stop it. This is in their own interest, because of the "fuel" it provides to their economy. So if Mr. Klein has a problem with all of this, perhaps he should pick a different country in which to have his product made? One in which people aren't out to make a quick million by oppressing in near slave-labor their fellow countrymen. I realize of course that a big reason these models are made in China is because it's CHEAPER to make them there, but I for one would be willing to pay as much as US$10 more for a model to know that I'm getting the genuine article, AND that is was made by someone who was paid more than 10 cents per day for their labor.

Third, I find it rather a conflict of interest that Mr. Klein is one of the moderators of 400SH. It sure gives the impression that if one does not adhere to the "party line" on that forum (from which I've had a post deleted, so I speak from experience), you will be silenced. It would almost seem as if 400SH is an extension/subsidiary of AeroClassics, or at least that it is tainted by some who seem to be in some kind of subservience to Mr.Klein (like someone with a dog for his avatar?). How Soviet. Perhaps Mr. Klein's time in the PRC has doctored his view on open discourse?

Finally, I appreciate the fact that DAC gives full info on ALL new releases, REGARDLESS of who made it. It is up to the consumer as to whether they're **** or not. If they are, nobody will buy them after a while, and then the case is settled.

There are too many people in both DAC AND 400SH with nothing better to do than sling mud at each other. And for 400SH people to say that DAC "supports" criminals is just outrageous. I swear, I've never seen so much cat-fighting in my life...other than between a couple of drag-queens!

GET A LIFE! and ENJOY your models, NO MATTER who made them!

STAR ALLIANCE · 10-19-2006, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cathay747

All right, I'm going to throw in MY two cents here.
First of all, Andrew Klein seems to think he is the voice of God passing down the 10 Commandments of 1/400 collecting. I do not recognize his authority. Mr. Klein is a MANUFACTURER, and if he has a problem with other entities making & marketing products that are allegedly not licensed, then he should take it up with Boeing & Airbus. You see, big companies like that pay lawyers to deal with issues like that. In the meantime, Mr. Klein should take an example from GJ and IF and DW and not constantly rant & rave about these issues to collectors in a public forum. It's not pretty. And threatening distributors and/or retailers with cutting them off from his product is HARDLY good business!
Second, the PRC is well known to be a rat's nest of copyright & intellectual rights infringement. Look at the entertainment industry, for Christ's sake! Those big powerful companies have been rather powerless to stop pirating of DVD's and video games, etc., because the PRC govt. basically does nothing to stop it. This is in their own interest, because of the "fuel" it provides to their economy. So if Mr. Klein has a problem with all of this, perhaps he should pick a different country in which to have his product made? One in which people aren't out to make a quick million by oppressing in near slave-labor their fellow countrymen. I realize of course that a big reason these models are made in China is because it's CHEAPER to make them there, but I for one would be willing to pay as much as US$10 more for a model to know that I'm getting the genuine article, AND that is was made by someone who was paid more than 10 cents per day for their labor.
Third, I find it rather a conflict of interest that Mr. Klein is one of the moderators of 400SH. It sure gives the impression that if one does not adhere to the "party line" on that forum (from which I've had a post deleted, so I speak from experience), you will be silenced. It would almost seem as if 400SH is an extension/subsidiary of AeroClassics, or at least that it is tainted by some who seem to be in some kind of subservience to Mr.Klein (like someone with a dog for his avatar?). How Soviet. Perhaps Mr. Klein's time in the PRC has doctored his view on open discourse?
Finally, I appreciate the fact that DAC gives full info on ALL new releases, REGARDLESS of who made it. It is up to the consumer as to whether they're **** or not. If they are, nobody will buy them after a while, and then the case is settled.
There are too many people in both DAC AND 400SH with nothing better to do than sling mud at each other. And for 400SH people to say that DAC "supports" criminals is just outrageous. I swear, I've never seen so much cat-fighting in my life...other than between a couple of drag-queens!
GET A LIFE! and ENJOY your models, NO MATTER who made them!

I LIKE THIS GUY

JustPlaneCrazy · 10-19-2006, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cathay747

Third, I find it rather a conflict of interest that Mr. Klein is one of the moderators of 400SH. It sure gives the impression that if one does not adhere to the "party line" on that forum (from which I've had a post deleted, so I speak from experience), you will be silenced. It would almost seem as if 400SH is an extension/subsidiary of AeroClassics,

Yes, we are the Online Voice of Aeroclassics, no big secret.....

400sh is privately owned, we can do anything we want, just as DAC and Airline Buzz can do anything they want, don't like our content, don't visit the site, how simple can that be?

Is someone forcing you?

Got a gun to your head?

Send me your address and I will alert the police

STAR ALLIANCE · 10-19-2006, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustPlaneCrazy

Yes, we are the Online Voice of Aeroclassics, no big secret.....
400sh is privately owned, we can do anything we want, just as DAC and Airline Buzz can do anything they want, don't like our content, don't visit the site, how simple can that be?
Is someone forcing you?
Got a gun to your head?
Send me your address and I will alert the police

Starting to feel the heat over there in 400SH are we

goldy · 10-19-2006, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cathay747

All right, I'm going to throw in MY two cents here.

Mr. Klein is a MANUFACTURER, and if he has a problem with other entities making & marketing products that are allegedly not licensed, then he should take it up with Boeing & Airbus. You see, big companies like that pay lawyers to deal with issues like that. In the meantime, Mr. Klein should take an example from GJ and IF and DW and not constantly rant & rave about these issues to collectors in a public forum. It's not pretty. And threatening distributors and/or retailers with cutting them off from his product is HARDLY good business!

GET A LIFE! and ENJOY your models, NO MATTER who made them!

I don't have a feel for what percent I do or don't agree with Andrew on various topics but I do know that it is not 100%. Therefore I will say that as I understand it Andrew is not opposed to the licensing issue, as you suggest, but rather business practices instead. He seems most concerned that Blue Box is using the name of an established Chinese toymaker. As in "knockoff". Gucci brand purse made my Won Hong Lo and then labeled Gucci, as an example. If I am reading and hearing it correctly that is his major complaint which has not much to do with licensing at all.

Peewee

JustPlaneCrazy · 10-19-2006, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STAR ALLIANCE

Starting to feel the heat over there in 400SH are we

Not sure what you're talking about, I'm having a fun at 400sh, and here for that matter

So, a question for you, how does it feel to bankrupt a model company?

airParadigm.com · 10-19-2006, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goldy

I don't have a feel for what percent I do or don't agree with Andrew on various topics but I do know that it is not 100%. Therefore I will say that as I understand it Andrew is not opposed to the licensing issue, as you suggest, but rather business practices instead. He seems most concerned that Blue Box is using the name of an established Chinese toymaker. As in "knockoff". Gucci brand purse made my Won Hong Lo and then labeled Gucci, as an example. If I am reading and hearing it correctly that is his major complaint which has not much to do with licensing at all.
Peewee

The point is what does "Blue Box" the company and "Blue Box" the models HAVE ANYTHING to do with what goes on these forums? You don't see John Boy and BillyBob representing Gucci going after those purses. If the real "Blue Box" has issues with the model "Blue Box" then they should take it up themseleves, not you me or anyone else. Just as if Boeing has issues with someone they'll take it up, of if Qantas has licensing issues with certain models then they'll take care of it. So why does it matter, and why do certain people need to keep dragging out this thread. It's funny the people that complain about the ridculousness of this thread are the same ones dragging it on.

cathay747 · 10-19-2006, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustPlaneCrazy

Yes, we are the Online Voice of Aeroclassics, no big secret.....

400sh is privately owned, we can do anything we want, just as DAC and Airline Buzz can do anything they want, don't like our content, don't visit the site, how simple can that be?

Is someone forcing you?

Got a gun to your head?

Send me your address and I will alert the police

"We"...see, there is the issue. I noticed that before. "We". Who is "we"??? All we hear is Andrew or YOU defaming other models. But we never hear the details. PERHAPS if you gave us a detailed explanation of how these alleged Chinese pirates are robbing you of your livelihood we might be a bit more sympathetic. And you still did not answer my question/issue of general copyright infringement in the PRC. How do you stop that???? You can't!

JustPlaneCrazy · 10-19-2006, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cathay747

"We"...see, there is the issue. I noticed that before. "We". Who is "we"???

What issue?
In the above statement I made, it refers to 400sh, 400sh = we...... why is that so hard for you to comprehend?

Quote:

All we hear is Andrew or YOU defaming other models.

Only models made by one company!

One nice feature of these forums, if you don't like reading a certain person's posts, just put them on your ignore list, simple.

Quote:

PERHAPS if you gave us a detailed explanation of how these alleged Chinese pirates are robbing you of your livelihood we might be a bit more sympathetic.

Sympathy? Never asked for any or need any, no one is robbing me cause I don't buy their crap!

Quote:

And you still did not answer my question/issue of general copyright infringement in the PRC. How do you stop that???? You can't!

Your right, you can't!

goldy · 10-19-2006, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JB

The point is what does "Blue Box" the company and "Blue Box" the models HAVE ANYTHING to do with what goes on these forums? You don't see John Boy and BillyBob representing Gucci going after those purses. If the real "Blue Box" has issues with the model "Blue Box" then they should take it up themseleves, not you me or anyone else. Just as if Boeing has issues with someone they'll take it up, of if Qantas has licensing issues with certain models then they'll take care of it. So why does it matter, and why do certain people need to keep dragging out this thread. It's funny the people that complain about the ridculousness of this thread are the same ones dragging it on.

It is a topic of hobby discussion. Discussion of the hobby is the purpose of the forum. Like talk radio. No talk no radio show. You be the likeness of a talk radio show, in this case.

Here is the deal. The fact that Blue Box model company chose to use that same name as Blue Box the toy company seems to irritate at least one collector and he likes to talk about it. When he does others like to join in. Some agree and some do not.

What Blue Box the model company has to do with these forums is why these forum exist otherwise why do you bother to post photos of those models and then proceed to tell us what they are? Why bother doing that if "..."Blue Box" the models HAVE ANYTHING to do with what goes on these forums?" What is the purpose of and why do you have this forum?

How do you know whether or not Blue Box Toys has complained to Blue Box Models? They may have but that is not relevant anyway because it is AeroClassics that is complaining about it as a way to inform others about it. Some will care about the deceit and some will not care about it. The only reason it matters is because it matters to some people. Because it matters to some people then it is a topic of debate and discussion...hence the purpose of this forum which is a venue to discuss that which is relevant, or not, to the hobby. And everything is, or is not relevant, and it is our choice to discuss.

I don't seem to think that any thread is rediculous. To say that would be to say in effect that there is such a think as a dumb question. There may be but if the forum subscribed to the notion that dumb questions should not be asked then eventually who would ask any question for fear they would be ridiculed (root word for rediculous) for asking their question at all.

Peewee

goldy · 10-19-2006, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cathay747

"We"...see, there is the issue. I noticed that before. "We". Who is "we"??? All we hear is Andrew or YOU defaming other models. But we never hear the details. PERHAPS if you gave us a detailed explanation of how these alleged Chinese pirates are robbing you of your livelihood we might be a bit more sympathetic. And you still did not answer my question/issue of general copyright infringement in the PRC. How do you stop that???? You can't!

I agree with the logic. If one is going to sling mud then explain why you are doing it. China is a haven for copyright infringement and that is why, as you know, the knockoff is such an international problem. Go back to Gucci. What do they loose annually in rightful income because of copyright infringment? Is that fair? No. Is that your problem? No. Does the problem qualify for a topic of discussion? Yes. What I think Andrew said was the Blue Box infringined on Blue Box. He stated it so now it becomes a topic for discussion. Discuss if you like and do not discuss if you do not like.

Peewee

Cebu Pacific · 10-20-2006, 01:08 AM

Who has ever seen an airplane model with the brand name Blue Box? I guess nobody.

All these models have boxes without any brand name. The only thing that I know is there is an email address bluebox400 existing.

Maybe the real Blue Box models come from the Aeroclassics factory because some models from there are in a blue box. Different TWA models if you remember.

goldy · 10-20-2006, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cebu Pacific

Who has ever seen an airplane model with the brand name Blue Box? I guess nobody.

All these models have boxes without any brand name. The only thing that I know is there is an email address bluebox400 existing.

Maybe the real Blue Box models come from the Aeroclassics factory because some models from there are in a blue box. Different TWA models if you remember.

I see a difference between GJ, HW, DW, and AC and the likes of Blue Box, Net Models, Phoenix Models (to a small extent) and any other company that does not have a evident business organization. Four have take the time to build websites, get licenses, market their products, and distribute their products via established and reputable distribution networks. Legitimate vs non legitmate, for lack of better terms.

That is the business end of it and it is apparent that I do not pay much attention to it. If you visit my store you will find a little bit of everything. In spite of that I still understand the differences. I do not think it fair that the GJ, AC, DW, and HW can work so hard to buy the license, maintain a website, have a constant and dependable distribution system, pay their taxes only to have another company come to the marketplace and reap the rewards without having paid any dues or contribute anything to the hobby. There are bid differences and is why I call one method "legitmate" and the other not. And why are some of those non legit models so expensive? If they are not paying the advertising, licensing, etc then one would think their overhead and expenses would be lower hence a lower cost model.

Peewee

nutsXplanes · 10-20-2006, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KenB

That doesn't sound like a pause in the fighting to me. It sounds like you are jumping into the fight with both feet.

the dude is from Jersey, and he has friends.

goldy · 10-20-2006, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nutsXplanes

the dude is from Jersey, and he has friends.

Would he be one of the Jerky Boys?

Peewee

QFA380 · 10-20-2006, 02:21 AM

This topic is now bull**** and about who can type LOUDER.
Let it rest, collect or don't collect.
My money is mine to do what I please and I deal with reputable retailers from all over the world and if they have something I want I buy it. I don't give a crap about maufacturer loyalty. I just hope they don't all kill each other and stuff up my rights to have a hobby which I get great pleasure from.

dylan · 10-20-2006, 03:00 AM

400SH ISthe Aeroclassics forum. The rules there are simple: Don't bad mouth AC, Dont good mouth Blue Box. They are really nothing more than that. They own it and can do with your posts what they want.

See, I love Aeroclassics models. I will continue to buy them as long as Andrew keeps releasing livery/airframe combos I like. Thats why I go over there from time to time. But at the same time, the guy is a first class weenie.

I compare Andrew to Milton Waddams (from the movie "Office Space").
Does a good job, don't want him to quit, but needs to be down in "Storage B" behind a large stack of boxes so we dont have to hear him rant about how his Boston Stapeler (Blue Box) binds up.

Where is Bob Slydel when you need him?

fazeman · 10-20-2006, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goldy

Would he be one of the Jerky Boys?
Peewee

Chickity China the Chinese Chicken, have a drumstick and your brain starts clicking. You have?

Dr Evil · 10-20-2006, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cathay747

Third, I find it rather a conflict of interest that Mr. Klein is one of the moderators of 400SH. It sure gives the impression that if one does not adhere to the "party line" on that forum (from which I've had a post deleted, so I speak from experience), you will be silenced. It would almost seem as if 400SH is an extension/subsidiary of AeroClassics,

That's right. 400CH ain't no such thing as a forum, it's a secondary website of AC, not a place bout the hobby, just for AC.

Wanna get some info about new releases, this is the right place. 400CH had devoted themselves to AK, their choice, read the posts in this thread and you'll see they even try to convert this forum into a AC website.

Hapag-Lloyd · 10-20-2006, 08:59 AM

Exclusive news!

What´s behind the "BBx"-Conspiracy? How come the 400CH censor... moderators, aka "Andrew´s willing executioners", are so nervous about BBX?

Because they know BBx´s secret business plan:

2006 - enter and revolutonize the 1/400 market, set up new dealerships for Prototype "S"
2007 - continue with improved moulds. Make Prototype "S"
2008 - improve Prototype "S" and make it enter the market.
2009 - market 1/400 extensively, enter 1/200 market

Prototype "S", as we have now learned, is nothing else but BlueBox´s original sofa, which the Toddler won´t be allowed to sell. It has a special coating that will allow Lil´Faheemie to wipe off his budgie´s droppings without leaving a trace. And it is softer, cuddlier than any other sofa on the market today.

No wonder the Toddler aka Sofaboy is so nervous.

10-19-2006, 07:38 PM	#151
Garuda747400 Insane Collector Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,656	where is oasis hong kong really from 5/ The Oasis 747 models were not produced in this factory off the Big Bird moulds, therefore they are not Big Bird!! That is called "deceit". How much of a tongue lashing would I get from some of you hipocrites if I released my next model in a box labelled "Gemini Jets" or "Herpa". Would that be considered "criminal" or "deceptive", or defended as normal practice. seems mr klein has cleared up the rumours on his leaving party, and that leaving party is cancelled and mr klein will be staying around which is good for all who loves his work. on the above note, after definetly wanting the BIG BIRD oasis hong kong in my collection to read it is deceitful and not big bird, is confusing, is klein aeroclassics/big bird or both . and if its not big bird where is it coming from, and if my understanding of klein is correct then he makes a good bloody point calling the companys criminals. and probably why i have very few big bird, and if mr klein is the real owner with rights to big bird and being affected by the fake big bird he has my support to rant on, just wish i knew the difference to be honest why cant where ever the model really comes from use there own name, looks like re-branding would only benefit the company who releases them.

10-20-2006, 01:08 AM	#163
Cebu Pacific Independent collector Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 69	Who has ever seen an airplane model with the brand name Blue Box? I guess nobody. All these models have boxes without any brand name. The only thing that I know is there is an email address bluebox400 existing. Maybe the real Blue Box models come from the Aeroclassics factory because some models from there are in a blue box. Different TWA models if you remember. Last edited by Cebu Pacific; 10-20-2006 at 01:10 AM.

10-20-2006, 02:21 AM	#167
QFA380 Junior Collector Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Adelaide Age: 47 Posts: 11	This topic is now bull**** and about who can type LOUDER. Let it rest, collect or don't collect. My money is mine to do what I please and I deal with reputable retailers from all over the world and if they have something I want I buy it. I don't give a crap about maufacturer loyalty. I just hope they don't all kill each other and stuff up my rights to have a hobby which I get great pleasure from. Last edited by QFA380; 10-20-2006 at 02:23 AM.

10-20-2006, 03:00 AM	#168
dylan Village Drunkard Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert... Age: 31 Posts: 1,958	400SH ISthe Aeroclassics forum. The rules there are simple: Don't bad mouth AC, Dont good mouth Blue Box. They are really nothing more than that. They own it and can do with your posts what they want. See, I love Aeroclassics models. I will continue to buy them as long as Andrew keeps releasing livery/airframe combos I like. Thats why I go over there from time to time. But at the same time, the guy is a first class weenie. I compare Andrew to Milton Waddams (from the movie "Office Space"). Does a good job, don't want him to quit, but needs to be down in "Storage B" behind a large stack of boxes so we dont have to hear him rant about how his Boston Stapeler (Blue Box) binds up. Where is Bob Slydel when you need him? __________________ mmmmm, beer.

10-20-2006, 08:59 AM	#171
Hapag-Lloyd Insane Collector Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 40 Posts: 2,395	Exclusive news! What´s behind the "BBx"-Conspiracy? How come the 400CH censor... moderators, aka "Andrew´s willing executioners", are so nervous about BBX? Because they know BBx´s secret business plan: 2006 - enter and revolutonize the 1/400 market, set up new dealerships for Prototype "S" 2007 - continue with improved moulds. Make Prototype "S" 2008 - improve Prototype "S" and make it enter the market. 2009 - market 1/400 extensively, enter 1/200 market Prototype "S", as we have now learned, is nothing else but BlueBox´s original sofa, which the Toddler won´t be allowed to sell. It has a special coating that will allow Lil´Faheemie to wipe off his budgie´s droppings without leaving a trace. And it is softer, cuddlier than any other sofa on the market today. No wonder the Toddler aka Sofaboy is so nervous. __________________ THIS SPACE 4 RENT!!!