Limited Quantities: good or bad?

dboyd001 · 10-03-2006, 05:02 PM

Hello,
.....I am here again to stir up the hornets' nest again. Simple question:

Are limited quantities of models good or bad for the hobby?

.....I am really mixed. A model with a very low production run is going to be more valuable than one produced in high numbers Or continuous production... unlimited). But my problem with that is I'm not investing in models, I collect to enjoy (most hobbies are really like that: stamps for example are terrible investments unless you have rarities). If company A does a run of a very popular airline's DC-9, how far can a run of say 200 go? A lot of sad collectors out there wishing, but without hope. Low run models can also be more expensive, the maker must get their investment back by a higher price. A large run can satisfy more collectors and reduce the production costs resulting in a lower-priced model. In other words, selling 200 at $40 each is not as cost effective as being able to sell 2000 at $25 each. Maybe I might miss something in the economics of this, but I'd hate to try and buy a car if the auto maker only made 200 of each model (I know, comparing apples to oranges).
.....There are popular models and they have been produced in very large numbers. The USAF Air Force 1 747 is a popular model not diminished by high production by several companies. Lots of happy AF1 owners.
.....So opinions. Do low quantity production have either positive or negative effect on our hobby strictly from the collecting viewpoint (I'm NOT discussing investments here!)? Is it better some models are limited production and others are not? Granted there are some models & liveries that would appeal to a narrow group of collectors.
Dave (still would love any Fokker F-28 or F-100)

Rudi · 10-03-2006, 05:28 PM

I don't like to hunt a "limited edition".

Very often you have to be very quick to buy a model. After spending one week on holiday it can be sold out already. At the best you can buy it at a higher price from another collector.

goldy · 10-03-2006, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudi

I don't like to hunt a "limited edition".
Very often you have to be very quick to buy a model. After spending one week on holiday it can be sold out already. At the best you can buy it at a higher price from another collector.

Just as there are limited production models that are sold out and hard to come by there are limited productions models that are gathering dust on retailers shelves.

Example, Big Bird CP Air 747...somewhat limited in numbers, when considering that only about 120 or so were made of each city...yet still easy to find one. On the other hand there is the GJ 737 Mickey Mouse...maybe one of the most produced models out there yet it is somewhat hard to find these days. Demand makes the model both hard to find and expensive, not the limited availability of it. I think for the fact that it is limited makes it hard to find because how do you know where to find it in the first place?

Peewee

waiping · 10-03-2006, 08:34 PM

I always think that all models are limited edition simply because they have a production run when released. Whether it sells well or not there is no extra production. I've never heard anything like "back due to popular demand" on any single model before.

KenLan · 10-03-2006, 08:38 PM

i do understand when they release a uncomon/unpopular airline in limited quantities....BUT

when they release a POPULAR/SUPER COMMON airline ..i really dont understand, whats the point? higher prices? not logical

goldy · 10-03-2006, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waiping

I always think that all models are limited edition simply because they have a production run when released. Whether it sells well or not there is no extra production. I've never heard anything like "back due to popular demand" on any single model before.

The GJ Alaska Air 737 Mickey Mouse was one. The original production run sold out. Several months later another batch was run and they sold out too.

Peewee

BlueSkies · 10-04-2006, 12:17 AM

It would make no sense for a manufacturer to produce a large number of units that cannot be sold in a reasonable time and be stuck with a large inventory for a long time. Ideally, a manufacturer would produce the number of models that could all be sold to distributors within a few months from production. Thus, I presume, manufacturers establish a production quota based on the expectation that most of that production will be quickly sold. If I were a manufactures I would make sure I would not overproduce and be stuck with a large inventory, which would obviously hurt my cash flow.

Obviously as a consumer I like overproduction, because it brings prices down. I consider buying models an expense, not an investment.

nutsXplanes · 10-04-2006, 12:48 AM

I still in shock with the 360 pcs. release of the AC Ladeco 727-200. That livery is not that popular/known by collectors. IMHO hat livery would have been good on a 120-240 pcs. release.

I thank Andrew for being so nice to release that livery.

Small releases are justified in some cases, that include the Clubs from Aeroclassics, Gemini Jets and Jet-X trying to grace their members with a unique/limited edition.

Another good reason for a limited edition is a livery that is a seek/wanted for some collectors from a specific region. A good example would be if the 727-200 Pacific Air Lines was released in a limited number, people from the west coast would go bananas.

Sometimes we see a limited edition of hybrid liveries (Lanica tittles and Cathay Pacific livery, Unical Tittle and United body) That's another good reason for a limited adition, a piggy back to give a chance to those mutts to see the light of the day. In that we have to thank Andrew and Brian a lot.

Regards!!!

Gavin Miller · 10-04-2006, 07:32 AM

As someone who collects models I need for my airport diorama (rather than as investments), I would like to see manufacturers respond to market demand (like suppliers in other areas of the broader economy).

They could do a limited run to reduce possible unsold inventory, but if it turns out to be a red hot seller and demand exceeds available supply, why not do another run immediately to meet that demand? Isn't that just simple market economics?

I have an AC BA Super VC-10 winging its way to me at the moment (I hope). It seems however that many collectors may miss out because this model is pretty much sold out everywhere.

Speaking personally, it wouldn't bother me in the slightest if AC did another run right now to cater for the obvious demand for their Super VC-10s.

I am sure the next run would sell out as well.

I am not buying models for capital growth (they are an expense, not an investment!). I would like to see everyone who wants one be able to buy one. For those who have studied economics, the intersection of the supply and demand curves at the perfect point of equilibrium - where production meets consumption at an equitable price - how much fairer can that be?

Gavin

BlueSkies · 10-04-2006, 11:40 AM

I agree with Gavin. For those collectors that buy models for hobby and not investment, limited production and value appreciation does not mean much. Therefore, I would be glad if manufacturer would run a second or third batch for models that are selling well.

I would like to have an American MD82, but to me it is not worth spending $60 or $70 for it. Dragon Wings underproduced this model. They surely could do another batch with a different registration number. Some people that own the model would get a little upset, but if you are not planning to sell it, what difference does it make what its value is?

There will always be a market for used models on e-bay. I am willing to pay for a used model in good condition 70%-80% of the price of a new one. Models don't deteriorate. So if I ever want to sell my collection and recover 50% of my expense, I would be satisfied.

hkgdave · 10-04-2006, 12:15 PM

I think really limited numbers, like single digits, are great, as long as I can get one

Take the second AeroClassics Sabena DC-6 with the same reg'n as the AirCongo model. Only twenty-something made. I never even knew it existed until it was too late and my regular supplier in HongKong didn't even know of it, let alone receive any

Dave

N747PA · 10-04-2006, 02:22 PM

After jumping thru hoops to get the Alaska 880, I'm glad that AK worked with Gemini to release the DL/TW 880's. I was going to leave the hobby If I didn't get a DL/TW.

Don Clipper Spirit · 10-05-2006, 01:22 AM

Bad........

Garuda747400 · 10-05-2006, 03:32 PM

limited numbers are great as long as you get what you want, but can be costly or dissapointing if you have to search everywhere and pay lots for something you like , plenty $100 models i would like but honestly would never pay that much for any model. but great for people who have the model and its rareness and value increase, as for manufacturers re-running production its good for those who have missed out but as for limited supplys would the hobby be the same would it be as exciting each month if you could just say get that next month or i will wait a while knowing you can get it. seeking out the rare model would no longer be part of the fun.

Gavin Miller · 10-05-2006, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garuda747400

... seeking out the rare model would no longer be part of the fun.

If you can call that "fun" (?).

Waiting perhaps 12 months for a rare model to become available and then paying an extortionate price for it on eBay isn't what I call "fun".

Building my model airport is FUN. Finding the correct model airliners to populate it has been a chore. I am now custom painting my own.

Perhaps I am just viewing the hobby from a different perspective ...

Gavin

waiping · 10-05-2006, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garuda747400

limited numbers are great as long as you get what you want, but can be costly or dissapointing if you have to search everywhere and pay lots for something you like , plenty $100 models i would like but honestly would never pay that much for any model. but great for people who have the model and its rareness and value increase, as for manufacturers re-running production its good for those who have missed out but as for limited supplys would the hobby be the same would it be as exciting each month if you could just say get that next month or i will wait a while knowing you can get it. seeking out the rare model would no longer be part of the fun.

Well you can buy a USD100 model or wait for one that price way below. My patience in hunting for a DW/TOMY Friends paid off handsomely. Some resellers were pricing it well over USD100 the last time I saw.

airlines · 10-06-2006, 12:56 AM

Hi guys,

I personally feel that a real aviation fans and collectors will much hope to has their favourite aircrafts or airliners to be one of their collection, and not any investors just like doing properties or business else. I don't think it is right that resellers mark up their models that high. Yes, they might earn some profits if the models can sold. What if still unsold due to too high price? Not every collectors may afford to buy such a high price on second hand models. It is much disappointed when they knew that the price is not worth to has. All these caused may end up just like an investment and not a hobby and collection.

To maintain equal and balance quantity of products to be out for the market, I feel that Manufacturers should do some marketing. Check out which are the best selling aircrafts and airliners. Produce to the market need and not just work out on how many pieces or limited edition, and end up another same batch out again and again... Those unpopular aircrafts or airliners, maybe the manufacturers may produce as limited edition.Beside this, manufacturers should check out the real aircraft or the airlines about the real logo, design, and even the airline's colors. Making mistake, everyone may happen. But, before the models are release in the market, do a proper QC. That may also help the manufacturers to cut down the unsold cost.

I still hope that Aviation fans bear in mind that this is just a hobby and collections and not any investment...

Thank you.

Regards,

Airways

fazeman · 10-06-2006, 11:35 PM

This is the Ebay Funk Master and I wanna tell you what it's all about. It's all about Limited Editions baby. That's right, Ltds. You got an itch to buy a model? Heck, I got an itch to sell you a model.

To my right is the newest nondescript model from Flyin' Monkey Ltd. Beautiful, isn't she.

So don't freeze up. Hit that $100.00 "BUY It Now" button.

Small Print. Orders shipped directly from Nigeria.

Garuda747400 · 10-07-2006, 08:33 AM

Its not fun paying $100 for a model, thats why i never have no matter how much i want one, but it is nice to have something a little rare in the collection or they wouldnt be all that collectible if they were just mass produced liek toys, I have noticed it is always the same people on ebay who are selling at high prices , maybe we should go on strike and stop paying the ransom, the expensive models always go to a select few , Airshop releases etc. and do research before buying check the internet retailers to see if something special is still avalible or ask a few diecastforum friends.
I have just recently picked upa dragon wings china airlines millenium dragon 747 at $40 , and dragon wings a380 , 2xansett olympics all at a great price but fior my collection not for profit ..

Bigbird400 · 10-07-2006, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waiping

I always think that all models are limited edition simply because they have a production run when released. Whether it sells well or not there is no extra production. I've never heard anything like "back due to popular demand" on any single model before.

Herpa did some extra BOAC Comets in 1:500. First lot sold out. I had to wait a while to get mine. I think they also did second run of the Uzbekistan IL76.
Could be wrong but the backorders on them may have the answer to this question.

waiping · 10-07-2006, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garuda747400

Its not fun paying $100 for a model, thats why i never have no matter how much i want one, but it is nice to have something a little rare in the collection or they wouldnt be all that collectible if they were just mass produced liek toys, I have noticed it is always the same people on ebay who are selling at high prices , maybe we should go on strike and stop paying the ransom, the expensive models always go to a select few , Airshop releases etc. and do research before buying check the internet retailers to see if something special is still avalible or ask a few diecastforum friends.
I have just recently picked upa dragon wings china airlines millenium dragon 747 at $40 , and dragon wings a380 , 2xansett olympics all at a great price but fior my collection not for profit ..

Good for you there. The last time I saw the CI Millenium Dragon fetched 60-70USD.