AS WITH ALL PRIOR CLUB MODELS AND WITH GEMINIJETS IN GENERAL, THESE MODELS ARE PRODUCED IN STANDARD MASS PRODUCTION FORM. ALTHOUGH EVERY EFFORT IS MADE TO INSURE QUALITY, THESE MODELS ARE NOT WITHOUT FLAWS. MANY CUSTOMERS WHO BUY THEIR GJ'S FROM RETAILERS, PREFER TO INSPECT THEIR MODELS LOOKING FOR THE SMALLEST OF FLAWS. ONCE THEY HAVE ISOLATED A BLEMISH, THEY REJECT THE MODEL AND LOOK FOR ANOTHER ONE. WITH CLUB MODELS, THESE SAME FOLKS DON'T HAVE THAT LUXURY TO DO THAT SAME INSPECTION AND IT REALLY POSES PROBLEMS FOR US AT ADI. WHENEVER WE RELEASE A CLUB MODEL, WE GET A HANDFUL OF CUSTOMERS THAT WANT AN EXCHANGE FOR A "BETTER" MODEL. WHILE WE DO NOT FAULT THESE SAME INDIVIDUALS FOR WANTING THAT "BEST" MODEL, WE MUST MAKE IT CLEAR THAT WE CANNOT ENGAGE IN THIS TRADE PRACTICE. IT IS VERY COSTLY AND TIME CONSUMING. MANY OF THE MODELS WE GET BACK HAVE MINIMAL IF ANY PROBLEMS. THEREFORE, WE MUST MAKE IT CLEAR THAT WE WILL NO LONGER EXCHANGE MODELS THAT HAVE SMALL IMPERFECTIONS. SMALL IMPERFECTIONS ARE NOT UNUSUAL WITH THESE MODELS. IN FACT, MORE HAVE THEM THAN DON'T. WHILE WE RESPECT THAT YOU ALL DESERVE THE BEST MODEL FOR YOUR MONEY, IT IS PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO MAKE THESE MODELS FLAWLESS. WE HOPE YOU UNDERSTAND OUR POSITION ON THIS. PLEASE REMEMBER THAT THE CLUB IS RUN ON OUR SPARE TIME AND IT IS QUITE A TEDIOUS PERIOD WHEN WE HAVE TO PUT REGULAR GJ BUSINESS ASIDE IN ORDER TO FULFILL CLUB REQUIREMENTS. ALTHOUGH WE WOULD LIKE TO OFFER YOU ALL MORE CLUB MODELS MORE OFTEN, THE PRACTICE OF DEALING WITH MANY UNNECESSARY RETURNS CAUSES US TO "THINK TWICE" ON DOING SO. THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR CONTINUED SUPPORT AND UNDERSTANDING.
Okay everyone its open season, lets here all the critics whine and complain about Geminis sincerity on this one....At least their honest and dont put up with all those nitpicking mullygrubbing collectors with their micrometers !!!! A few names on this forum
come to mind!!!!
Re: Gemini's Answer to the Unsatisfiable Collector
Quote:
Originally posted by crownvic
...nitpicking mullygrubbing collectors with their micrometers !!!!...
I'd just love to take my micrometer to all those models and join the ranks of the "Micrometer Mafia" (which is a sub-group of the "Society for the Professionally Offended," I believe) by picking apart these models. But for the last several years my micrometer has been broken, or lost, or something... anyway, without it, I've been forced to enjoy my collection without it's benefits.
Come to think of it, this hobby has been better without that damned instrument. Life is good. Go Gemini!
Flaws and errors are two totally different things.
Error: wrong engines, on 100% of the production run. Fairly common. Or wrong reg number on plane (like a -200 registry on a -300)--an error is something that is WRONG (by design), on ALL the planes.
Flaw: smuged paint at wing/body junction. Mis-aligned tail logo. Paint chip on tail. A flaw is something that happened at the factory, to a few planes. The right registry in the right position, is correct, but if it's smudged, it's a flaw.
GJ is complaining about people asking for a more "perfect" paint job, not "the reg is wrong, re-print it please". I've never complained about a paint chip, they happen, and always will. But I will complain about when something is the wrong color, when there's 500 pics of that plane at airliners.net. I don't mind flaws that much (unless they're so bad they're obvious, then I just display the other side of the plane--I have left-facing and right-facing displays to accomodate this). I don't have any planes with paint flaws on both the left AND right side.
Heck, I didn't know this was allowed! If I had known, I would've...hmm, well, I would've still kept mine. I have all the club models from the start and they have all been to my liking.
Crownvic, how's everything? Anything new on models I can buy from ya?
Tucano is like 15% nothing more. Dragon falls about 80%. AeroClassics 94.5% they caught up only down one point before in my book. Jet-X 92%. Herpa 45%.
Percentage as to correctness and as if they plagiarize. As to my thoughts these are them. I think it fallows what they say. As plagiarize the percentage is like an F.
Re: Gemini's Answer to the Unsatisfiable Collector
Hello Crownvic,
Thanks for making that Philippine DC8 last year. I hope I would see more retro Philippine Airlines models in the future.
.
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If I think of all the mistakes that Herpa has done with there club models, I am actually very pleased with the GJ models so far. Hope the will rellease a none US airlines as a club model.
Oh, the Herpa 1/400 scale models are awful. Both flaws AND errors. I bought the AA 777 before GJ came out with it & it had the "cut here in emergency" placards on the fuselage, the "American" title was too large, the cabin windows were printed with a smear & the nose gear was broken off.
Plus, the wings & tails are flimsy plastic & the fuselage is heavy. My question to Herpa is "why bother?"
Originally posted by NYCAAer Oh, the Herpa 1/400 scale models are awful. Both flaws AND errors. I bought the AA 777 before GJ came out with it & it had the "cut here in emergency" placards on the fuselage, the "American" title was too large, the cabin windows were printed with a smear & the nose gear was broken off.
Plus, the wings & tails are flimsy plastic & the fuselage is heavy. My question to Herpa is "why bother?"
I hear ya AA. I "had" to have the Ecuatoriana. Big mistake!
The wings look great,Very crisp, but as you mention, are flimsy. ...but its that fuselage that is so horrendous. Almost invisible silver cockpit, and a nose gear that positioned way off base. See through paint. I was looking forward to this unusal paint scheme. Should have waited for the GJ Chrome AA 707-323C.
A nice little 27.00 lesson for a 1:400 brand I will never buy again.
I burned, I learned.
B2
Last edited by Boeing SST; 01-17-2003 at 11:43 AM.
DON'T BUY THEM ANYMORE! Then you can stop yer whining.
Quote:
Originally posted by David Hingtgen Flaws and errors are two totally different things.
Error: wrong engines, on 100% of the production run. Fairly common. Or wrong reg number on plane (like a -200 registry on a -300)--an error is something that is WRONG (by design), on ALL the planes.
Flaw: smuged paint at wing/body junction. Mis-aligned tail logo. Paint chip on tail. A flaw is something that happened at the factory, to a few planes. The right registry in the right position, is correct, but if it's smudged, it's a flaw.
GJ is complaining about people asking for a more "perfect" paint job, not "the reg is wrong, re-print it please". I've never complained about a paint chip, they happen, and always will. But I will complain about when something is the wrong color, when there's 500 pics of that plane at airliners.net. I don't mind flaws that much (unless they're so bad they're obvious, then I just display the other side of the plane--I have left-facing and right-facing displays to accomodate this). I don't have any planes with paint flaws on both the left AND right side.
Im probably going to be skewered for this, ...but I dont think its a huge issue if occasionally theres a minor difference between the model and the real thing, Wrong engine pylons, no big deal, a shade of color on the model is a bit lighter/darker on the genuine article, no big deal really, I mean to me, as long as a wing isnt on backwards, the windows are straight, ..minor things like that dont really detract from the beauty of the model, dont get me wrong, I love accuracy, but dont see any sense in nitpicking the models to death over truly minor flaws...
Amen BW.....I guess we all have different levels of a reasonably done model.
Quote:
Originally posted by BWIUSairFan Im probably going to be skewered for this, ...but I dont think its a huge issue if occasionally theres a minor difference between the model and the real thing, Wrong engine pylons, no big deal, a shade of color on the model is a bit lighter/darker on the genuine article, no big deal really, I mean to me, as long as a wing isnt on backwards, the windows are straight, ..minor things like that dont really detract from the beauty of the model, dont get me wrong, I love accuracy, but dont see any sense in nitpicking the models to death over truly minor flaws...
Originally posted by David Hingtgen Flaws and errors are two totally different things.
Error: wrong engines, on 100% of the production run.......Flaw: smuged paint at wing/body junction. Mis-aligned tail logo. Paint chip on tail. A flaw is something that happened at the factory, to a few planes....
I don't mind flaws that much (unless they're so bad they're obvious, then I just display the other side of the plane--I have left-facing and right-facing displays to accomodate this). I don't have any planes with paint flaws on both the left AND right side.
Sorry, David. Will have to bust you on this one. Your knowledge about airframes is legendary here, and I’ve learned quite a bit about the 707’s I didn’t know before, but I’m not buying your argument that you’d be happy with a flaw on your models!
You are extremely picky about the accuracy of a mould (and I’m glad there are those of you who are—to keep the manufacturers continually improving their product.) I’ll usually always send a flawed model back for a correct one (I am picky—ask the retailers), but an error on the mould may or may not be a make or break deal for me personally. To wit, I have the Aeroclassics AA 707 chrome and Western 707 (on not entirely correct moulds) because I wanted these models more than the incorrect mould bothered me. However, if there was a bubble in the chrome finish or smudge in the paint, I’d probably have returned it for one with a better finish.
I can understand Gemini’s position concerning the club models though—there are less produced and they don’t want to be bothered with people like me searching for a flawless finish.
I seriously doubt your specious statement that you’d accept a flawed model. Really? If so, imagine next month's releases include a plain Northwest DC10, TWA 727 twin stripe, MD11 house colors and Swissair 733----all with spot-on perfect moulds, but yours were shipped with a smudged reg or smudged paint on the tail so that they all have to face to the right. I'll drink a case of Doc's 'shine rejects if you wouldn't want to swap 'em out for a better paint finish!
Yes, I would prefer flawless ones--but you can talk to any retailer here--I've never returned (or even asked or mentioned) a plane due to a flaw. Actually, the most common flaw I find are paint chips (but not down to the bare metal) on DW's, and paint "bumps" on GJ's. Weird, the 2 companies have the exact opposite problem. On GJ's, I can usually slice off the bump, but DW is much harder--I usually try to slice down the surrounding area, so the "depression" isn't so sudden/jagged.
::edit::
You know, I don't think I've ever gotten one with smudged/smeared markings/logos--it's always the overall basecoat that has problems.
Chrome finishes often tend to get little bumps though, especially by the rear fuselage.
__________________ We need more TWA twin-stripes!
Last edited by David Hingtgen; 01-17-2003 at 02:41 PM.
Any chance you might have a psychic sense about next months GJ realeases, Piarco??? cause if you were right even about half of those ....................wow......
Funny, I've never noticed any bumps in the chrome models. I have seen tiny scratches but that's it. Real metal finish-that's another story. Don't get me started on how much I hate real metal.
My club model has major errors, the paint is all wrong, the wings and fuselage are all screwed up, the engines are the wrong type and it even has one too many of the things.
I don't know how it ever got released in this condition, I suppose the Post Office could be to blame for some of the damage but not all.
Come on guys get it together will ya!
This is what I got!
This is what it should have looked like!
__________________
Ozz
ORANGE IS BEAUTIFUL GO WESTJET!!! We need more CPAir/CDN and don't forget PWA and BA Landor!
Originally posted by Ozz My club model has major errors, the paint is all wrong, the wings and fuselage are all screwed up, the engines are the wrong type and it even has one too many of the things.
I don't know how it ever got released in this condition, I suppose the Post Office could be to blame for some of the damage but not all.
Come on guys get it together will ya!
This is what I got!
This is what it should have looked like!
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Originally posted by Ozz My club model has major errors, the paint is all wrong, the wings and fuselage are all screwed up, the engines are the wrong type and it even has one too many of the things.
I don't know how it ever got released in this condition, I suppose the Post Office could be to blame for some of the damage but not all.
Come on guys get it together will ya!
This is what I got!
This is what it should have looked like!
Can't please everybody. Take 'im out back and shoot 'im!
__________________ Chuck Corway (AlphaSigOU)
Causa latet vis est notissima -- the cause is hidden, the results are well known.
James Bond: "I'll take the full odds on the ten, two hundred on the hard way, the limit on all the numbers, two hundred and fifty on the eleven, thank you very much."
Plenty O'Toole: "Hey! You've played this game before!"
James Bond: "Just once."
REMEMBER THE ALAMO!!! REMEMBER PEARL HARBOR!!! REMEMBER SEPTEMBER 11!!!!
I can't believe that most collectors are accepting this kind of statement/apology from Gemini. If I want to get a sad looking model I could always go to schaback, herpa or the new player Tucano.
"Be happy and get any seconds we may send you, we are too busy to come up with a good quality model, we do not have the time for anything better"
As an Industrial Design student I could never go to my instructor / employer / customer with that type of mentality. Is a matter of fact, I'd rather shoot myself in the head.
Definetely this company vision statement is not The Art Center of Pasadena material. As a student of such institution I would never come up with that statement.
Before I started collecting models I used to collect soda pop caps.
I have 20,8428 caps in mint condition, nicely produce.
I feel cheated!!!!!!!!!!!!!
P/S: next time I pay for one of them models I am going to take the money order and...
write with a bad pen
wrinkled it up
take a leak on it
put it in an envelope seat on it and fart
I learned the hard way that you will NEVER please everybody. No matter what you do, someone will find something to whine about.
It is sad that people have nothing better to do than to whine about a minor flaw. For crying out loud... These are 1:400 scale models, if you want flawless then go buy the 1:1 version. But then again, I suppose someone would have a problem with the 1:1 version as well. GMAB!!!
Originally posted by nutsXplanes "Be happy and get any seconds we may send you, we are too busy to come up with a good quality model, we do not have the time for anything better"
...Definetely this company vision statement is not The Art Center of Pasadena material. As a student of such institution I would never come up with that statement.
FINALLY SOMEone who GETS it! Holy SMOKE!
As a graduate of Art Center College of Design, I can say that the above statement is right on! NEVER except being #2 or #3... ALWAYS strive to be the very best you can be. Offer the very best you have to give. Never except that "That's the way it is". We'd all still be driving Stanley Steamers and using washboards to do the laundry... There would never have BEEN a "Jet Age" if the designers, engineers and manufacturers of the world weren't always looking forward. Giving it their all to make things better, more accurate, more comfortable and pleasing.
While I'm not a member of the GJ club and therefore have no real say in how GJ treats their constituancy, I AM a buyer of their products... To have a public notice such as the one above posted is telling. With an attitude like that GJ will from now on and forever be chasing the likes of Aeroclassics and SMA. Two companies who have in the last year taken the quality/accuracy "bull by the horns" and faced these issues head on! I've now got quite a few SMA and Aeroclassics releases from the last 12 months and except for the obvious and oft noted shortcomings in the 707 mold, each and every one of these models is as flawless as one can reasonably request. Are these two companies crying foul that their fiinishes just can't be made better and that the consumers should simply take it or leave it? Not that I have seen. (well there IS that Disco Glitter issue, but I think that actually Andrew LIKES that finish! )
I understand that it is a costly nuscience dealing with nit-pickers who send products back trying to get "that perfect one" but there MUST be a more creative way of dealing with this issue rather than throwing up your hands and saying "Too bad". Now we have this public statement that surely puts GJ in the #3 position purely from an attitude point of view... this from the company that really honestly opened up this industry and lead it to be what it is today. It's a sad state of affairs and I morn having read this notice.
If this stance labels me "One of those names that comes to mind" well then, so be it. I can live knowing I demand no more than I expect from myself...
__________________
Dar~
He lives in a world of fantasy
...and that's a world I'd like to see!
Lets see now, about 27 responses and all but three are agreeing... HMMMMM hey you three, and you know who you are, K Mart is having a blue light special sale on magnifying glasses.. Maybe you should all get together and run down there right
away and have a gathering of the minds and rip apart some more models.....
Air Dar: The other distibuters you mentioned make nice models as well, but do not have large investments in warehouses, a full office staff, and a tollfree number constantly ringing off the hook from all over the world.
Remember too, that this is a business run by a small handful of
diecast aviation enthusiasts. All they are asking for is a little help and a little break to make it easier for them to do everyday business and to keep costs down on future models..
As for the Art Center of Pasadena, I still draw stick figures
and have a hard time with a magnadoodle...
None of this makes any sense.
Now GJ is blasting caliper bearers, three years ago the GJ faithful had a caliper emplazoned on their battle flag.
And who returns club models? Simply say not returnable.
It has not been a good year for Diecast model clubs!
I imagine this is all a big joke to see how many DACers responded... the all caps and style does not seem to be GJ.
As for the GJ Club it lost all credibility in my book when the "odd selections" started winning the popularity contest.
Arrow Air L1011 using old parts didn't help, and now this Western model... What was the last club model before this one?
When did it come out?... the "luster" of the Braniff orange has "tarnished" long ago...
The CP DC-10 would have brought some shine back.
Am I the only one that thought this Western came out of left field??
So who was expecting a flawless model in the first place?
What is a flawless model?
Picky collectors returning flawed models have cut down ont he GJ Club releases?
Its not April first yet but it all looks like a January Fool ploy to me!
Originally posted by AirDar
As a graduate of Art Center College of Design, I can say that the above statement is right on! NEVER except being #2 or #3... ALWAYS strive to be the very best you can be. Offer the very best you have to give. Never except that "That's the way it is"....
Let's look up the words "except" and "accept" please...
.... obviously English is not on the sylabus at the Art Center....
Originally posted by Airliners! Let's look up the words "except" and "accept" please...
.... obviously English is not on the sylabus at the Art Center....
Ooops!....might you mean "syllabus"? but point taken...
(.....paging tom.d, .....paging tdh8192....grammar/spelling infractions in progress!)
Nice to know we have language police here... "I didn't realize officer!"
Quote:
Originally posted by Airliners! Let's look up the words "except" and "accept" please...
.... obviously English is not on the sylabus at the Art Center....
Point taken... That was a sloppy gaffe on my part. Not like me. And if you regularly read my rantings you know this, but HEY! I can take a little cage rattling...
My bad. It was late and I missed a detail. It's not acceptable to me either. I'll be more vigilant from now on.
Happier now?
__________________
Dar~
He lives in a world of fantasy
...and that's a world I'd like to see!
Ahhh………….The very DA.C typical asswipe perfectionist trio ranting and spewing off at the mouth because a little post bent their feelers and their toy plane isn’t true to life pretty.
All I can say is; if you’re ever at any function that I am attending, don’t any of you little sissy’s get near me and start in with this kind of nonsense or I’ll turn on you like Wiklem’s mom did on him when she found out he was queer.
Now, let us get back to the very interesting and delightful topic of 1:400 scale painted, Zink, plastic toy model aircraft replicas. I mean, this conversation has gotten excessively heated over the fabulous GJ product!
For heck sakes it isn’t as if we are discussing a fagot-ass periwinkle Braniff A380
OK now back on topic, all of you English professors can get back to kicking each other’s ankles over minute mistakes and grammatical errors in postings as if you had written the language all by your lonesome.
It seems that SOME members are more focused on the structure of a post rather than the content of it. Let's see if I can lay a track without losing members in tall grass again...
I LOVE the GeminiJets I have in my collection. Each month GJ brings out an interesting vareity of product. Responsive to the collectorate, there is SOMETHING for everyone in each release cycle.
GeminiJets is a professionally run organization. If you need something after sales, like gear replacements, they do their best to make you satisfied.
GeminiJets makes VERY high quality products. Always finished in a nice clearcoat and providing intricate detail. Often the colors are more accurate than any other manufacturer on the market.
Until recently, in more collectors minds than just mine, GeminiJets held the #1 position in quality of finish and accuracy of detail. However, there are up and coming challengers and they are trumping GJ at their own game at every mark. It's great that Gemini is replacing their molds with ones that eliminate the seams, which have been so often criticised. BUT that's simply not enough to stay in front when other companies are also producing models with no seams, but more accurate noses, more consistant printing, cleaner finishing with fewer (or non-existant) blemishes.
If there are those of you who don't care about accuracy and only buy on livery, that's great. Have at it. I DO buy for accuracy AND livery. If I can get both I will jump for it.
If there are those of you who buy only one manufacturer, good for you! Enjoy each and every release from your favorite manufacturer. I am not dogmatic in my allegences to companies. I do have favorites, GJ being one of them and others I don't like, but I am a consumer who enjoys having the American "freedom of choice" and I exercise it by buying products with out self imposed guilt over being some sort of turn-coat. I don't OWE anyone my spending dollars.
As with other manufacturers, there are various molds made by GJ that I don't like due to inaccuracies and others that I can scarcely live without and trip over myself, cost be dammed (almost! ) to get them. As a collector it is my right to choose the ones I DO like and avoid the ones I dislike. As a member of this forum it is equally my right to call out the wonders of releases I enjoy and point out my opinions when I don't like something.
The above notice is understandable and the request reasonable. To me it also reads as a form of acceptance of defeat. As a graduate of my shcool, I was taught not to accept defeat, in an acedemic equivelent to how Marines are ingrained with not accepting it. I LIKE GeminiJets and I hate to see them posting a public notice that accepts defeat and a "Well, that's the way it is" attitude. It's not what will keep them in the #1 position, or even #2... and that's sad.
__________________
Dar~
He lives in a world of fantasy
...and that's a world I'd like to see!
Originally posted by ZX1100F1
...OK now back on topic, all of you English professors can get back to kicking each other’s ankles over minute mistakes and grammatical errors in postings as if you had written the language all by your lonesome.
Sorry, Dave. Gotta do it. It's my job. L8R dood...
Originally posted by AirDar
If there are those of you who don't care about accuracy and only buy on livery, that's great. Have at it. I DO buy for accuracy AND livery. If I can get both I will jump for it.
Same here.
Many years ago some of my friends participated in a design contest. They cofessed to me that they were glad that I was out of the country during the contest. They were afraid that I would never let them present their design as under my eyes it may had some flaws and I was alway looking to get things better/improved.
Going back to Gemini Jets, I love their products
BTW: Art Center designers call the shoots big time, Art center is the "Mecca" of the design world and Yes!!, the doctrine is comparable to the Marine Corps.
Originally posted by nutsXplanes
Your job should be to take your medication on time and seek counseling
Yes, thank you - I'm on my way to the looney bin as you read this. By the way, you ended your sentence with this instead of a period. Understandable, considering your inability to deal with anger.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Why I love DA.C.........but first.
Quote:
Originally posted by tdh8192
Yes, thank you - I'm on my way to the looney bin as you read this. By the way, you ended your sentence with this instead of a period. Understandable, considering your inability to deal with anger.
Originally posted by tdh8192 Okay, if you insist, but then only if nutsXplanes looks like this:
If I look like her I would be playing with myself alone in my room...
anyway, I'm sure that Tom likes girls just like I do.
BTW: my fantasy girl is 45 or better (older) XXL size, small breast and a deep, deep women odor. that way I could find her in the darkness of my room regardless of how drunk we are.
Hmmmm, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you have to pay to be in the GJ club and get the model? From the post above I got the impression that ADi were just a bunch of good'ol boys giving away free models! Well, maybe I'm stupid, but if you are paying for a model you have a right to expect that it is built to the same standards as a regular release, and if you are paying for anything you should have the right to reject a sub standard example and demand one that meets an acceptable standard. I agree with everything Egonzinc said, it's a bit rich that the original hounds are now trying to pour oil on these troubled waters.
Gemini's Answer to the Unsatisfiable Collector
Re: Gemini's Answer to the Unsatisfiable Collector
I think Gemini is doing ok in this!
David....I have the secret to your dilemna...
GMAB!!!
Re: Re: Re: Why I love DA.C.........but first.
Why can't Brian Wilkerman be GJ member?
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