VECTOR1

Hi Guys,

Just got the latest artwork on the United 747-400. I look forward to hearing from you guys. I am back out in China next week and I would like to give the go ahead for this one so that it can be started while I am there.

David Hingtgen

Still a few things:

1. Passenger and cargo doors are still outlined in white, should be grey.

**1B. Fleet number should be 8174, not 8674. **** Some places say 8674, some places say 8974. Even JP Fleets disagrees with itself, depending on the year. However, photos of the real thing show 8174, to nicely match the reg number. http://www.airliners.net/open.file/316213/L That's clearly a 1, not a 6 nor 9.


2. Belly strip should go ALL the way to the APU exhaust--it seems to end well before it gets there. And it should change color to Boeing(light) grey at the end.

Basically, lengthen the aft end of the bare metal belly strip a bit, then add on a light grey section to get to the very tip of the tailcone. Continue having it taper/narrow as it goes--I can't draw that, when it reaches the APU exhaust in real life, it's even narrower than the APU exhaust opening itself.
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/648514/L/

3. Wing/body fairing---looks ok on the bottom, still too much grey on top. Add blue to the forward section. Remember, it should go right up to the silver part. (There should still be a TINY grey spot, but the resolution and angle don't allow me to show it). Look here---this is the newest scheme, but the shape of the blue area is exactly the same. See how the blue does wrap onto the upper part of the wing/body fairing near the leading edge? http://www.airliners.net/open.file/734533/L It should 'flare out' at the forward part, just like the bottom. Basically, have the area just inboard of the silver part be blue, and have it curve to match how the bottom does--I've tried to draw it as best I could---the top and bottom should basically be identical at the front part of the wing/body fairing. It is hard to translate into 3D, especially not knowing exactly where/how the mold is split for the wing/fuselage. From below, the line does look straight (no "outward flare), but it is painted along a curve to look straight, I think. The main thing is that the blue goes right up to the silver parts. http://www.airliners.net/open.file/760175/L/ Note the location relative to the red stripe under door 2.


4. It seems you've taken my suggestion to make N174UA as first repainted to avoid needing a large SATCOM antenna. If so, then the Star Alliance markings should be completely removed. 174 picked up the SATCOM antenna like the rest of the fleet before it got Star Alliance stickers.

4B. The engines still look GE-ish, not PW's. But again--it's only the drawing, I can't see the engine molds themselves. Just commenting once again (I'm paranoid) that even with a flawlessly accurate finish, the wrong engines would almost ruin the release. Be sure they(the factory) put on PW's! Easiest way to tell is that a PW's intake lip (the silver part) is not perfectly vertical when viewed from the side--they are distinctly angled, upper edge of lip ahead of lower edge of lip.

5. I've attached modified drawings as best I could, showing more blue on the upper wing/body fairing, and the light grey strip on the bottom of the tailcone.

Finally--wow, I am very impressed at all the changes made. Do these last little things, and it will flat-out be the best UAL 747 model ever made, in any scale, easily beating any custom resin/wood model I've seen.

PS----please let me see the artwork for the TWA twin-stripe 747's before you do them, they are my most-wanted 747's of all time. Thankfully, they don't have nearly as many little details as UAL's 744's. Quite a "clean" scheme.

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jjorgemiami

Like I stated in the other forum, agree with David the engine is too stubbish and the center aluminum cone is not wide enough from top to bottom. The U on the tail need to be moved up so that is sits on the next dark blue line and the nose seems a bit stubbish too, also the door frames are light gray not while.
In the 400scale hanger I posted my photos to support these statements.
Thanks again for the great work you guys are doing! KUDOS!!

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Chris G

I have 10 Inflight models in my collection. I was honestly going to pass on a UA 744. However if all of these changes take place this will have to be a must buy. Keep up the good work guys...plus a knod to Vector for actually letting the collectors be his QC.

David Hingtgen

I think the drawings themselves are of GE engines, mainly "for illustrative purposes only". At least, that's what I hope. The cowl drawings are clearly GE--PW's are shorter/fatter, and as I mentioned above, have an angled intake lip.

Really cant judge the plane's nose shape by a drawing! Though I am still concerned about the wing's upper surface engraving---it should be utterly totally smooth around the leading edge, there shouldn't be any sort of flaps engraved on the top, though it looks like there are, inboard.

The tail logo is in the correct place. Upper edge centered in the 10th stripe from top, a medium blue stripe. It's like that on every grey/blue 747 that I've ever found a pic of. I think only 727's and 146's have the upper edge in a dark blue stripe.
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/363046/L

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VECTOR1

Hi Guys,

Once again many thanks for your comments about the artwork, they have all been sent to China for the artwork to be revised.

I have also stressed to them about the engines, the correct engines fitted to the model.

We are out in China next week and I hope we shall be able to sign off this artwork to start production. The next stage is to show you guys how this model is manufactured, so we shall be taking lots of pictures while we are there in the factory. We shall of course be posting some of them on the forums because we want you guys to see how many pairs of hands these models go through, I think you will be amazed, I know I was when I saw the process!

Just a short note from the guys at Inflight 'Thank you for your support'

David Hingtgen

Well, jjorge and I currently disagree about the tail logo placement it seems.

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/363046/L/ Matches the artwork Vector1 posted. Never seen a 747 with a different logo location. If there is one with the upper edge in or touching the dark blue stripe, I'd like to see it---it'd be a one-off/error. I'll check my pic of N174UA as first repainted again later today. (Airliners.net has a big gap for 174UA-- 1993 to 1998 is missing, which is exactly the time period we're going for)

Oh, while we're looking at that picture: http://www.airliners.net/open.file/363046/L/

#6---could the winglet have a bare metal leading edge? See the blue stripes don't TOTALLY cover the winglet, the upper/leading edges are bare metal.


PS--if you want more proof the inboard leading edge on the upper wing surface shouldn't have anything at all engraved, here's N174UA itself: http://www.airliners.net/open.file/288487/L The silver area on the upper surface is SMOOOOOOTH.

PPS--I think it would calm many fears if we could have a drawing or photo, etc of the PW engines, just to be sure they exist, and that the factory knows which is which. FYI, Dragon has a nearly 100% track record in getting PW and GE confused on their 767's. Every one that should have GE, has PW's. And excluding one, all PW's have GE's! They clearly have both types, I think the factory just has the boxes mislabled. They have very nice PW's and GE's, they just consistently get them backwards. And we've all seen how often 1/400 777's get the wrong engines, even with multiple engine molds available to each manufacturer.

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jjorgemiami

Negative on the tail logo placemant David. See a couple of close up pictures taken by me at different times below, and compare with the drawing here.

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Phantom

I see the discussion about the "U" goes on here as well.
I agree with David.
I'd be interested in the reg# of the aircraft in your pictures, jjorge.

David Hingtgen

jjorge--as I said, any 747 with it on a dark stripe is wrong/an error. Some painter screwed up. 99% of the UAL 747's have it like the drawing, and the photos I linked to. Most importantly, N174UA itself clearly has it on a medium blue stripe, from 1993 to 2004. Go check any photo of 174.

I'll second phantom's question--what plane(s) is that?

Basically---get 500 photos of UAL 744's. Probably 495 will show the tail logo's upper edge on the 10th, medium blue stripe. The others just had it put in the wrong spot. It's the same as the occasional "backwards" tail logo. (red-side forward). It happens, but it's not "right".

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David Hingtgen

Hate to do this, but problem/issue I found for N174UA:

I suggested it because it's the only one I've ever found to wear grey/blue while lacking the big SATCOM antenna above the #4 door. That antenna is a big issue to me, the presence of it in 1/200 would be very obvious, and the IF mold doesn't have it, so we have to pick one of UAL's planes that didn't have it---thus N174UA. However, the original nitpicks/drawings were based on assuming it was going to be N117UA, as Vector1 said it would be.

That means there's a few things different, for 174 itself, as well as 174 now vs 174 in the early/mid 90's.

1. The grey spot at the very bottom of the fin leading edge? Make it bare again. This is an "early vs late 744" thing. N174UA is old. The other grey spots are ok.

2. The window pattern needs to be changed. Upper deck same. Main deck changes (and this applies to both sides):

Forward-most two windows need to be blanked.

Also, behind the 1st door, there should be 8 open windows, then 6 blanks. Quite different from how it is now, which is 3 blank then 9 open then 2 blank.

All other windows the same.

Here's a photo of 174's early window configuration: http://www.airliners.net/open.file/508423/L See? Forward 2 windows blank, then "8 open and 6 blank" aft of the first passenger door.

I've looked closely at left and right, and those are the only spots I see different from the current design--the very front 2 being blanked, then the rearrangement of the area between the first and second passenger doors. Left side pic:
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/125826/L

And yes, all Airliners.net grey/blue pics of 174 show it like the drawing. But trust me, I have other photos of 174 as first repainted, and it has the pattern I've linked to, and I've mentioned A.net lacks 1993 to 1998 coverage. PS--there's a photo that says it's 174, in 1994, in white--can't be, 174 was repainted grey in 1993.

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David Hingtgen

Here, I've redrawn the window pattern on the main deck, removed the Star Alliance logo, and removed the bottom grey spot on the fin edge.

Note that the upper deck should remain as-is on both sides--they don't match, and never did. Only change the main deck, but do it on both sides.

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N. Eberhard

I think every manufacturer should hire David H. as a consultant and/or provide him free models since his advice would most assuredly result in higher sales.

David Hingtgen

Update: N177UA *might* work, if you don't want to change the window pattern. Might be easier to change the reg/fleet numbers than the windows. Not a good pic, and I'm not totally convinced that there's no antenna nor that the photo IS of 177, but if you really want to keep the window patterns as-is, go with 177. The modified fin edge still applies.

Edit: Sigh, I have now found at least 3 more antenna-less grey 744's, but none have the reg number! They certainly existed, with the "normal" window pattern etc, it's just that 174 is the only one we have a reg number for, and POSSIBLY 177.


Vector1---let me know what you want---change the windows as I drew, or change the reg/fleet number to keep the windows as you have drawn. Fin edge change applies either way. For "assured accuracy" I would say change the window pattern, as I am 100% sure of 174's window pattern at that time and paint scheme, etc. And I hope the "bare leading edge on the winglets" didn't get lost in all this!

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Mike777

My thoughts exactly. I think David should get his IF200 United 744 for free, just as Sascha did for his help with the rollout 747.

Vector, I am looking forward to the pics and info on the process of making an IF model.

Not sure if it would be practical, but it would be great if you guys (Inflight) posted the artwork for all your future releases and let the DA.C critics have at it. Would make for truely the most accurate line of models around with steady releases.

David Hingtgen

I really wish they'd posted art for the PAA 747. That was my second most-wanted 747, but I didn't buy it due to what I considered some fairly serious errors in the paint. I could also have fixed some things on the EA and BOAC 747's. And nearly every 707...

I'm always available---post here, or on Airlinebuzz, email, PM, etc.

I've already picked a few "accurate" registries for KLM if it's to be done (I sure hope it is, KL 744's are gorgeous planes).

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Mike777

I deffinately agree on the KLM. Hands down The old KLM scheme, with the thick darkblue cheatline, is my favorite scheme on the 744. I have the Herpa Premium KLM 744 though, so I don't know if I'd get one from IF200.

funbird

Concerning the nose, I've noticed on the PA 747 the nose IS too stubby. I don't know if that was fixed for the BOAC, if it hasn't you can forget about IF200 fixing it. It would cost a lot of money to go back and redo the master mould.

jjorgemiami

David, I thought they were two different aircraft, but upon closer inspection of the photos, it's the same plane on two different occassions, it's N191UA. But looking at others, I think that the UA paintshop and the maintenance department put those stickers all over the place. Some are on the dark blue, some are on the light blue some are in between the too. So I take back the logo placement point then, I guess anywhere in that vicinity is Ok.

Now the door frames color being light gray not white, that is a must!
I pointed this out in the Scale400 forum.

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Dr. Edmund H. Carus

A comment - the nose profile on ALL the Herpa Premium B747's is incorrect. Fine sideways on - but "broken" if seen from an angle!

Cheers!

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David Hingtgen

jjorge---yup, we've gotta have grey doors.

So that's N191UA? I'd just write it off as a freak/mistake. IMHO, there is a *little bit* of variation, like an inch or two, but most of the time they do try to have it centered in a medium blue-stripe, and that is true for most of the fleet. Photos of planes at the Boeing factory seem to show more consistency--I think Boeing might pay a bit more attention than UA's own shop. 727's have it centered on dark blue though, as do UA Exp. 146's I've seen---perhaps it's a T-tail thing?

PS---I checked my "N174UA as unveiled" pic again and it is centered (or close to it) on the medium blue stripe. If anyone wonders, I am going by the cover photo of Airliners Monthly New Issue 67, when the scheme was first revealed in 1993, for "what should this model look like". It's the first 747, and possibly the first UAL plane period, to be painted in grey/blue.

PPS--I would LOVE to say "it's perfect" on the next drawing revision---if everything discussed on this thread is done, hopefully I can.

Current summary of requested changes:

1. Grey doors
2. Fleet number to 8174
3. A bit more blue on the upper wing/body fairing
4. Longer bare belly strip, reaching to the APU exhaust
5. Bare leading/upper edge on the winglet
6. Remove Star Alliance markings
7. Remove grey spot on bottom of fin edge
8. Change window pattern on forward part of main deck, both sides.

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Mike777

I've noticed this too.

Another error that bothers me on the Premium 747s is the size of the upper deck doors. On the models they are the same size as all the other doors, but really they sould be bigger, in width and height. Also if you look down the fuselage of a 744 from a slightly head-on angle, you will notice these doors also have a 'bend' in them, whereas on the Premiums they are completely flat. This is a problem with the moulding though, not the printing. Kinda hard to explain so maybe I'll try to post a picture. A small gripe for such fine models, but it bugs me anyways.

It looks like on the United artwork that IF has the upper deck doors bigger than the lower deck doors, like they should be, so that's good. Hopefull they have the 'bend' in the doors as well.

I think the IF200 United 747 has the potential to be one of the finest and most accurate 1:200 models ever.

funbird

If only the nose had been done accurately. I'll still purchase the 744 UA but I wish model companies would do some research BEFORE producing the master mould. After all if I were to spend in excess of $100K for a mould of a 747 I would make certain it was as accurate as humanly possible.

David Hingtgen

Hey, if Inflight wants to send me clay or resin masters to evaluat