Discolouration of 1:200 Models (Herpa etc) VERY URGENT!!

Dr. Edmund H. Carus · 10-20-2002, 05:01 AM

I need to know URGENTLY the following prior to my visit to Herpa:

How many collectors out there have UNDISCOLOURED Lufthansa Modell Edition models? How have these been displayed?

If discoloured, please let me know if this is uniform or in places on the models (following the position of the PU foam packaging material?

Has anyone has discolouration problems with PS models as used in the newer Herpa Premium Series?

Has anyone has discolouration with NP Herpa (or Starjets) models?

I am visiting Herpa (I am a polymer scientist of many years standing) and will be advising them re. future materials amongst other matters. I am also trying to define a marketing/technology strategy with them to firstly increase the rate/# of new a/c as new Premium issues and secondly to bring the NP models to Starjets ++ standards by bringing some of the model finishing operations back to Germany.

I am visiting Herpa mid November since I have been seriously ill and this has delayed my plans. I have good friends in Herpa and I know my visit(s) will be to the benefit of us all.

Cheers!

niels · 10-20-2002, 08:24 AM

My 3 LH edition Herpa Premiums are undiscoloured:
727-200
737-300 (oc)
737-300 (LH Express)
They have been kept in their boxes i.e. boxed in the clear hanger in the case of the 733 oc.

10-20-2002, 11:00 PM

I paid over $400.00 back in 1992 for my 747 and it is completely
yellowed out, the model was always in an airconditioned
enviroment in a curio cabinet out of direct sunlight..

Very disappointed.... However, I also own every other herpa
premium and none of those are yellowed.

Dr. Edmund H. Carus · 10-21-2002, 01:40 AM

Crown Victoria,

Was your model yellowed from day #1 or did this happen later. If so, how quickly did the yellowing occur? Do you have any strip lighting accessible to this model? Was the model "displayed" before you bought it please or did you get it direct from Lufthansa?

Sorry for the questions but this is helping me to gain some picture on this problem.

Cheers!

David Malmgren · 10-21-2002, 02:30 AM

I have the whole Modell range except the 737 OC with the Berlin 2000 graphic - or whatever it was. I have a duplicate of a 744 and a 722 because the first two yellowed. The 744 yellowed in the foam-lined box - only the parts that touched the foam. I kept it in the box because of the 722 yellowing until I had a place to display it. It was in the box for about 2 months. When I opened it, it was cream in color - fuselage, wings, and stabilizers. The 722 yellowed on one side that was in sunlight for an hour or so a day. The yellowing started within 1 week. The rest are still white as the day I received them. They are all on display away from any direct source of sunlight. They are kept in a display cabinet with glass doors. None of the "new generation" Premium Series have discolored yet. They have been displayed the same way - removed from the foam and put in the cabinet upon receipt.

B-huj · 10-21-2002, 05:20 AM

honestly,
it would surprise me if herpa really did not know the cause for such a horrible yellowing problem.
ironic really that they invested so much time and care to produce models that turn yellow so easily.....

Diecaster · 10-21-2002, 06:39 AM

My Lufthansa Premium D-ABVC cost me over USD$200 and turned yellow after 1 year without direct sun-light, not in the syroform box, it was housed in a displayed case with air-conditioned most of the time in my bed room.

Now my first non-premium Singapore 1000th 747 9V-SMU also turns a bit yellow, not very noticeable untill one day my friends get a new one from store and then we compare it sitting right next to each other!

Nobbe · 10-21-2002, 11:10 AM

Edmund,

At first I will suggest you for next year´s nobel prize for Diecast Aircraft in the 1/200 section!

Keep up your excellent work and thanks very much for that!

Premiums:
- I just sold a B747 "Baden-Württemberg" which was very discoloured, but it was already when I bought it 3 years ago. Sorry, no help.
- My B747 Expo2000 hasn´t discoloured yet. It´s about 2 years old and has always been displayed in the original HERPA hangar. In addition, I always avoid direct sunlight reaching the cabinet. Same goes for the Emirates A300.
- A300 "Stade" and B727 "Oberhausen" are both in same condition - lightly discoloured (always displayed).

Non-Premiums:
No discolouration so far for both HERPA and Starjets. Planes are mostly displayed without protection but never in direct sunlight.

Ashley Sham · 10-21-2002, 01:06 PM

I have just recently bought a complete collection of ebay and ALL the models are in perfect order.

Dr,
My question to you is which batch/model numbers are turning yellow?? If you have some yellow models, what are the serial numbers on the belly of the model..........

ashley

Dr. Edmund H. Carus · 10-21-2002, 04:12 PM

My thanks for all the correspondence which is beginning to take some form of technical dossier which I can use with Herpa. I can see scientific patterns evolving and the question of serial #'s of discoloured models is important. For now, can I restrict these #'s to Boeing 747-400's (excluding "Expo 2000" which is not made from ABS like the original models).

Could I please therefore ask for the serial #'s of discoloured models (and the model name (Berlin; Bonn; B-W)). Also has anyone successfully displayed these DLH 747's long term with no discolouration at all please?

Thanks again for all your help.

Cheers!

PS I went to the same school as Conan-Doyle (Stonyhurst - I live next to this ancient pile) and I adopt the Sherlock Holmes maxim "no data, no theory". Now I'm getting good data!

niels · 10-21-2002, 05:19 PM

We forgot to say if we smoke or not.
I don't.

Some painted surfaces and plastics seem to react to constant/regular nicotine exposure via tobacco smoke.

10-22-2002, 12:17 AM

I cant remember if the model was yellowed coming out of the box
fresh or not... I didnt really notice it until it was displayed with other LH models later on....

JOHN JOHNSON · 10-22-2002, 05:13 AM

I believe that I have the Bonn version. After receive that for Christmas from my lovely wife. This was the last one to entire my 4 of Lufthansa collection., A-300, 727, and 744. It was in the box for about a year. I took it out of box after I recognize the rumor about yellowings in order to try to conserve my model. I dust off weekly with terry towel or make up brush (for all of my models dust offs and never use on anything else!) We are NON-smoker family. Until this debate topic. I checked on my 744 and I am seeing a beginning of yellowing compare to pure white of the 727, 737,and A-300 Also I have BADERS MD-11 Olymplic nearby and it is whiter than the Lufthansa 744! It is always in a safe, non-direct sunlight enviroment, and air conditioned house. (temperature stays between 68 during winter and 72 during summer) I have the whole set of models since 1997 (I think) maybe 1998?

Yes I am finding extremely disappointed!

My wife paid $275 for that model.

Herpa release the new Premium versions and I am too intimidate to further buy because of the ongoing yellowing rumors...... I must agree that Herpa ought to do something about that.

Before you go to see Herpa and I would like to make a suggestion....

How about compensate our 744 by return our 744 to Herpa and they re-do to ensure that white stays white! or replace us to another same model.

Does my experience with the model help to your information gatherings?

Good luck.

Edit.....

I popped up the question as you are a "Dr." I wonder do the gas heat have any effect on the discoloration of the model? Our a/c is electric powered just like the majority of residences around this country. We never use such as stinly Kerosene or propane to heat our house. (I dont think that do effect the model as my other models remain white.)

Dr. Edmund H. Carus · 10-23-2002, 03:15 PM

IMPORTANT

Please let me know - does anybody have a displayed DLH Modell Edition Boeing 747-400 which is NOT discolored please?

Thanks!

PS An A340-600 in 1:200 SHOULDbe available by Christmas. Lot's of white (clue!!)

B-huj · 10-23-2002, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Edmund H. Carus
IMPORTANT
PS An A340-600 in 1:200 SHOULDbe available by Christmas. Lot's of white (clue!!)

to answer your question, i have had a EXPO2000 for a couple of months, and it was on display at the shop....fluorescent lights both here and in the shop. model seems whiter than CX 744 B-HUJ. maybe you were asking for older 744s.

second topic: i remember u said it would be an oriental A346...and now u want us to expect lots of white...i don't know of many A346 customers...i would not mind a SIA or CX version, one last guess...Quantas?!?!
c'mon, it can't be LUFTHANSA AGAIN!!

Dr. Edmund H. Carus · 10-23-2002, 04:20 PM

Both airlines planned but you know Herpa!!

Cheers!

niels · 10-23-2002, 05:36 PM

Air Canada has more white than Lufthansa........
(no grey belly)
tho not if you count the wings.......

David Malmgren · 10-24-2002, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Edmund H. Carus
IMPORTANT

Please let me know - does anybody have a displayed DLH Modell Edition Boeing 747-400 which is NOT discolored please?

Yes. Berlin, Bonn, and Baden-Württemberg. They are all still white

frontier737 · 10-25-2002, 11:28 AM

I have the Lufthansa 747, A300, 727 and 737. All were purchased mint about five years ago. The A300, 727 and 737 don't seem to have the discoloration problem the 747 has. My 747 was (unfortunately) in the sun for about an hour a day and did turn a cream color on one side. So I turned the model around and cooked it a little on the other side to even it out! I don't yellowing problems, just the "creaming" with the 747. I don't smoke and the models are no longer in direct sunlight. They still are the crown jewels of my overall collection.

Chris

Rudi · 11-13-2006, 06:19 PM

NO! It's irreversible.

Therefore I don't buy any models with a white plastic surface.

jasonsw · 11-13-2006, 06:29 PM

I don't think there's a way to reverse the chemical reaction caused by faulty materials.

What is your experience? What aircrafts are you working with?

I remember Dr. Edmund H. Carus saying,

Quote:

ALL white plastic models which are unpainted WILL discolour over time unless these are displayed away from UV light (both direct and reflected) and heat (to a lesser extent).

good luck. I hope my Herpa Premium American A300 wings won't change color...

Jason S.W.

reece296 · 11-13-2006, 06:37 PM

Take a picture of it send it to Herpa Customer Services, if they think it is bad enough they will send you a free replacement.

Dr. Edmund H. Carus · 11-13-2006, 06:39 PM

Discoloration in ANY white plastic model cannot be reversed - sorry!

Edmund

reece296 · 11-13-2006, 06:40 PM

Forgot to inclue this: HERPA Miniaturmodelle GmbH - Online - Contact Customer Care Center

That is a link of all the CS agent's E-mail addresses.

reece296 · 11-13-2006, 06:44 PM

Gemini is different to Starjets. Sorry i'm not sure of their contact information.

Agent X20 · 11-13-2006, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by planefreak2006

i Also have this issue with couple of Starjets model 1:200 scale. Does anyone know if Geminijets makes those for have contact information? i appreciate the help

Which Starjets..?

10-20-2002, 08:24 AM	#2
niels Insane Collector Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: , Location, Location Posts: 1,521	My 3 LH edition Herpa Premiums are undiscoloured: 727-200 737-300 (oc) 737-300 (LH Express) They have been kept in their boxes i.e. boxed in the clear hanger in the case of the 733 oc. __________________ ---- BWIA West Indies 1:400 final livery MD-83; oldest liveries: Viscount, Viking, DC-3; sandy livery: A321, DC-9-30, -80, 727, 707-138, -220) 1:250 scale? No, thank you. ---------------------------

10-21-2002, 01:40 AM	#4
Dr. Edmund H. Carus Master Collector Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: UK/Germany Posts: 801	Yellowed DLH Model Crown Victoria, Was your model yellowed from day #1 or did this happen later. If so, how quickly did the yellowing occur? Do you have any strip lighting accessible to this model? Was the model "displayed" before you bought it please or did you get it direct from Lufthansa? Sorry for the questions but this is helping me to gain some picture on this problem. Cheers! __________________ Edmund (now UK/IOM residency)

10-21-2002, 04:12 PM	#10
Dr. Edmund H. Carus Master Collector Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: UK/Germany Posts: 801	Discoloured DLH Modell Edition a/c - IMPORTANT My thanks for all the correspondence which is beginning to take some form of technical dossier which I can use with Herpa. I can see scientific patterns evolving and the question of serial #'s of discoloured models is important. For now, can I restrict these #'s to Boeing 747-400's (excluding "Expo 2000" which is not made from ABS like the original models). Could I please therefore ask for the serial #'s of discoloured models (and the model name (Berlin; Bonn; B-W)). Also has anyone successfully displayed these DLH 747's long term with no discolouration at all please? Thanks again for all your help. Cheers! PS I went to the same school as Conan-Doyle (Stonyhurst - I live next to this ancient pile) and I adopt the Sherlock Holmes maxim "no data, no theory". Now I'm getting good data! __________________ Edmund (now UK/IOM residency)

10-21-2002, 05:19 PM	#11
niels Insane Collector Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: , Location, Location Posts: 1,521	We forgot to say if we smoke or not. I don't. Some painted surfaces and plastics seem to react to constant/regular nicotine exposure via tobacco smoke. __________________ ---- BWIA West Indies 1:400 final livery MD-83; oldest liveries: Viscount, Viking, DC-3; sandy livery: A321, DC-9-30, -80, 727, 707-138, -220) 1:250 scale? No, thank you. ---------------------------

10-22-2002, 05:13 AM	#13
JOHN JOHNSON Mysterious Collector Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 4,196	Lufthansa 744 I believe that I have the Bonn version. After receive that for Christmas from my lovely wife. This was the last one to entire my 4 of Lufthansa collection., A-300, 727, and 744. It was in the box for about a year. I took it out of box after I recognize the rumor about yellowings in order to try to conserve my model. I dust off weekly with terry towel or make up brush (for all of my models dust offs and never use on anything else!) We are NON-smoker family. Until this debate topic. I checked on my 744 and I am seeing a beginning of yellowing compare to pure white of the 727, 737,and A-300 Also I have BADERS MD-11 Olymplic nearby and it is whiter than the Lufthansa 744! It is always in a safe, non-direct sunlight enviroment, and air conditioned house. (temperature stays between 68 during winter and 72 during summer) I have the whole set of models since 1997 (I think) maybe 1998? Yes I am finding extremely disappointed! My wife paid $275 for that model. Herpa release the new Premium versions and I am too intimidate to further buy because of the ongoing yellowing rumors...... I must agree that Herpa ought to do something about that. Before you go to see Herpa and I would like to make a suggestion.... How about compensate our 744 by return our 744 to Herpa and they re-do to ensure that white stays white! or replace us to another same model. Does my experience with the model help to your information gatherings? Good luck. Edit..... I popped up the question as you are a "Dr." I wonder do the gas heat have any effect on the discoloration of the model? Our a/c is electric powered just like the majority of residences around this country. We never use such as stinly Kerosene or propane to heat our house. (I dont think that do effect the model as my other models remain white.) __________________ Who should I consider? Dumbocrat Clinton or Ruptublican Johnny Mc Cain? Jimmy Mc Donald Help me! Last edited by JOHN JOHNSON; 10-22-2002 at 05:21 AM.

10-20-2002, 05:01 AM	#1
Dr. Edmund H. Carus Master Collector Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: UK/Germany Posts: 801	Discolouration of 1:200 Models (Herpa etc) VERY URGENT!! I need to know URGENTLY the following prior to my visit to Herpa: How many collectors out there have UNDISCOLOURED Lufthansa Modell Edition models? How have these been displayed? If discoloured, please let me know if this is uniform or in places on the models (following the position of the PU foam packaging material? Has anyone has discolouration problems with PS models as used in the newer Herpa Premium Series? Has anyone has discolouration with NP Herpa (or Starjets) models? I am visiting Herpa (I am a polymer scientist of many years standing) and will be advising them re. future materials amongst other matters. I am also trying to define a marketing/technology strategy with them to firstly increase the rate/# of new a/c as new Premium issues and secondly to bring the NP models to Starjets ++ standards by bringing some of the model finishing operations back to Germany. I am visiting Herpa mid November since I have been seriously ill and this has delayed my plans. I have good friends in Herpa and I know my visit(s) will be to the benefit of us all. Cheers! __________________ Edmund (now UK/IOM residency)

10-20-2002, 11:00 PM	#3
crownvic Guest Posts: n/a	I paid over $400.00 back in 1992 for my 747 and it is completely yellowed out, the model was always in an airconditioned enviroment in a curio cabinet out of direct sunlight.. Very disappointed.... However, I also own every other herpa premium and none of those are yellowed.

10-21-2002, 02:30 AM	#5
David Malmgren Junior Collector Join Date: Jul 1999 Posts: 13	I have the whole Modell range except the 737 OC with the Berlin 2000 graphic - or whatever it was. I have a duplicate of a 744 and a 722 because the first two yellowed. The 744 yellowed in the foam-lined box - only the parts that touched the foam. I kept it in the box because of the 722 yellowing until I had a place to display it. It was in the box for about 2 months. When I opened it, it was cream in color - fuselage, wings, and stabilizers. The 722 yellowed on one side that was in sunlight for an hour or so a day. The yellowing started within 1 week. The rest are still white as the day I received them. They are all on display away from any direct source of sunlight. They are kept in a display cabinet with glass doors. None of the "new generation" Premium Series have discolored yet. They have been displayed the same way - removed from the foam and put in the cabinet upon receipt.

10-21-2002, 05:20 AM	#6
B-huj Insane Collector Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,639	honestly, it would surprise me if herpa really did not know the cause for such a horrible yellowing problem. ironic really that they invested so much time and care to produce models that turn yellow so easily.....

10-21-2002, 06:39 AM	#7
Diecaster Master Collector Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 653	My Lufthansa Premium D-ABVC cost me over USD$200 and turned yellow after 1 year without direct sun-light, not in the syroform box, it was housed in a displayed case with air-conditioned most of the time in my bed room. Now my first non-premium Singapore 1000th 747 9V-SMU also turns a bit yellow, not very noticeable untill one day my friends get a new one from store and then we compare it sitting right next to each other!

10-21-2002, 11:10 AM	#8
Nobbe Insane Collector Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 1,050	Edmund, At first I will suggest you for next year´s nobel prize for Diecast Aircraft in the 1/200 section! Keep up your excellent work and thanks very much for that! Premiums: - I just sold a B747 "Baden-Württemberg" which was very discoloured, but it was already when I bought it 3 years ago. Sorry, no help. - My B747 Expo2000 hasn´t discoloured yet. It´s about 2 years old and has always been displayed in the original HERPA hangar. In addition, I always avoid direct sunlight reaching the cabinet. Same goes for the Emirates A300. - A300 "Stade" and B727 "Oberhausen" are both in same condition - lightly discoloured (always displayed). Non-Premiums: No discolouration so far for both HERPA and Starjets. Planes are mostly displayed without protection but never in direct sunlight.

10-21-2002, 01:06 PM	#9
Ashley Sham Senior Collector Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: UK Posts: 349	I have just recently bought a complete collection of ebay and ALL the models are in perfect order. Dr, My question to you is which batch/model numbers are turning yellow?? If you have some yellow models, what are the serial numbers on the belly of the model.......... ashley

10-22-2002, 12:17 AM	#12
crownvic Guest Posts: n/a	I cant remember if the model was yellowed coming out of the box fresh or not... I didnt really notice it until it was displayed with other LH models later on....

10-23-2002, 03:15 PM	#14
Dr. Edmund H. Carus Master Collector Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: UK/Germany Posts: 801	Displayed DLH Modell Edition Boeing 747-400 IMPORTANT Please let me know - does anybody have a displayed DLH Modell Edition Boeing 747-400 which is NOT discolored please? Thanks! PS An A340-600 in 1:200 SHOULDbe available by Christmas. Lot's of white (clue!!) __________________ Edmund (now UK/IOM residency)

10-23-2002, 04:20 PM	#16
Dr. Edmund H. Carus Master Collector Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: UK/Germany Posts: 801	A340-600 Both airlines planned but you know Herpa!! Cheers! __________________ Edmund (now UK/IOM residency)

10-23-2002, 05:36 PM	#17
niels Insane Collector Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: , Location, Location Posts: 1,521	Air Canada has more white than Lufthansa........ (no grey belly) tho not if you count the wings....... __________________ ---- BWIA West Indies 1:400 final livery MD-83; oldest liveries: Viscount, Viking, DC-3; sandy livery: A321, DC-9-30, -80, 727, 707-138, -220) 1:250 scale? No, thank you. ---------------------------

10-25-2002, 11:28 AM	#19
frontier737 Senior Collector Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Little Rock, Arkansas, USA Posts: 211	I have the Lufthansa 747, A300, 727 and 737. All were purchased mint about five years ago. The A300, 727 and 737 don't seem to have the discoloration problem the 747 has. My 747 was (unfortunately) in the sun for about an hour a day and did turn a cream color on one side. So I turned the model around and cooked it a little on the other side to even it out! I don't yellowing problems, just the "creaming" with the 747. I don't smoke and the models are no longer in direct sunlight. They still are the crown jewels of my overall collection. Chris

11-13-2006, 06:19 PM	#20
Rudi Master Collector Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Lübbecke/NRW/Germany Age: 49 Posts: 702	NO! It's irreversible. Therefore I don't buy any models with a white plastic surface. __________________ A special livery can't be too colorful!

11-13-2006, 06:37 PM	#22
reece296 Junior Collector Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Guernsey Age: 18 Posts: 32	Take a picture of it send it to Herpa Customer Services, if they think it is bad enough they will send you a free replacement. __________________

11-13-2006, 06:39 PM	#23
Dr. Edmund H. Carus Master Collector Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: UK/Germany Posts: 801	Discoloration in ANY white plastic model cannot be reversed - sorry! Edmund __________________ Edmund (now UK/IOM residency)

11-13-2006, 06:40 PM	#24
reece296 Junior Collector Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Guernsey Age: 18 Posts: 32	Forgot to inclue this: HERPA Miniaturmodelle GmbH - Online - Contact Customer Care Center That is a link of all the CS agent's E-mail addresses. __________________

11-13-2006, 06:44 PM	#25
reece296 Junior Collector Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Guernsey Age: 18 Posts: 32	Gemini is different to Starjets. Sorry i'm not sure of their contact information. __________________