KC-135R's at SIN

Stanman · 11-10-2001, 12:22 PM

A couple of weeks ago as the plane was lifting off at the ungodly hour of 0700 (which means check-in at 0430) I noticed that there was a KC-135R in SAF Singapore Armed Forces colours. Does anybody know when and why Singapore acquired these? Usually anything Singapore acquires is kept low key due to the political fragility of the region. At first I wondered if it was to help in the ferrying of their F-16's from Luke AFB or their base in Darwin. Still that's only a guess. Also are they old US Air Force inventory or converted 707's similar to the French? Just curious.

Sentinel Chicken · 11-11-2001, 08:38 PM

Stanman, the Republic of Singapore Air Force (RSAF) got their first KC-135R in late 1999 and currently have 4 on strength with 112 Squadron based at Changi. The aircraft were former USAF KC-135As which were taken out of storage at AMARC/Davis-Monthan AFB in Arizona and upgraded to KC-135R standard by Boeing-Wichita.

The original aircraft were painted in the old Shamu camo scheme (Gunship Grey uppersurfaces with Light Grey undersides) and were delivered to the RSAF in Air Mobility Command Grey, the current camo scheme of USAF tankers/transports.

RSAF's tankers also have two wingtip probe/drogue refuelling pods as well and are also currently receiving the Pacer CRAG (compass/radar/GPS) update that the USAF is getting that adds a glass cockpit to the venerable old bird.

RSAF tanker personnel train in Wichita at McConnell AFB with the 22nd Air Refuelling Wing there.

They were acquired because their F-16s cannot refuel from the KC-130s they have already.

DirtyBird · 11-12-2001, 03:14 PM

The Singapore Airforce has planes scattered half way around the world, I believe they have a contingent in Australia and several squadrons scattered about the US. I think this is mainly due to lack of adequate airspace and target ranges in Singapore, I am sure its hard to do combat manuevers when you can cross your nations airspace in under 10 seconds at top speed

.

Stanman · 11-12-2001, 04:20 PM

Thanks Doc and Dirty Bird! Yeah Singapore has its forces all over the place. At first all their F-16's were based at Lukes AFB when they had purchased them but didn't want them brought into the region because Indonesia and especially Malaysia weren't too happy with Singapore having them. When the Malaysians finally chose to buy both Hornets and MIGs then the point was mute and most of the F-16's have been brought back. There are also a squadron at a base near Darwin, Australia but that's not highly publicized for the same reason the squadron at Luke AFB was not highly publicized. That reason being you'd get a lot of billboards along the highways like we have just outside Dallas declaring that NATO is invading the US. Hopefully the Australians would be more laid back but you never know.

The army has a number of tanks based in Taiwan for training purposes. The army also trains in Thailand I believe which can be hairy because they often run up against guerillas, smugglers, etc.. What a place to train but you're right. There's not much place to train on an island 20x40 miles and minimal air space.

Doc! Where do you get your information? We're the KC-130's originally built as KC-130's or are they the ex-Iranian aircraft formerly ordered by the Shah but later sold to Singapore when the Iranian embargo took effect?

Glad to know that aircraft that go to Davis-Monthan aren't always on a one-way trip. It was really sad when Air-Space had a cover with all these B-52's chopped into 5 pieces for satellite confirmation by the Russians.

Sentinel Chicken · 11-12-2001, 04:31 PM

Don't forget, the RSAF also has an A-4 training detachment in France at Cazaux AB I believe. I can't quite figure out why France got chosen, though. Perhaps the RSAF figures the more nations they work with the greater the base of knowledge their aircrews will obtain.

Sentinel Chicken · 11-12-2001, 04:37 PM

Oh s**t, I almost forgot your question regarding the KC-130s of the RSAF- they were all second hand C-130Bs, 4 in the initial lot. 2 were ex-USAF and 2 were ex-Royal Jordanian AF. These 4 C-130s were subsequently converted into KC-130Bs and KC-130H was later obtained (not sure from where, I'll have to do some digging). I wouldn't be surprised if the RSAF took the KC-130s and converted them back to pure transport roles and let the new KC-135Rs do the air-to-air refuelling job.

Stanman · 11-13-2001, 03:22 PM

SAF in France! That sure is strange since I think the only A-4 operators in the region are the Spanish Navy and the Israeli's. Maybe they were trying to drum up business for the SAI to do more conversions to the A-4S and needed some demonstrators. The SAF did buy Pumas though which is inline with Singapores philosophy of not totally relying one supplier of aircraft. Keeps the competitors on their toes such as Boeing vs Airbus.

Sentinel Chicken · 11-13-2001, 10:34 PM

I did a little digging amongst all the stuff I have at home and found out that the RSAF trains its pilots on the A-4SUs at Cazaux AB in France for the space/room, but that Cazaux is also home to the ETO (don't ask me for what it means, it's in French) which is the advanced jet training school for the Armee de l'Air. The AdA uses Alpha Jets and co-locating the RSAF advanced jet training with the French ETO gives them access to a broad base of knowledge.

DirtyBird · 11-14-2001, 11:10 AM

The Israeli's dont operate the A-4 anymore, they sold a bunch of them to either Brazil or Argentina a couple of years ago. I dont think the Spanish Navy or Airforce ever operated the A-4, They operate a naval version of the Harrier called the Matador off their aircraft carrier Principe de Austrias.

Sentinel Chicken · 11-14-2001, 04:42 PM

I believe (I gotta check on this) that the Brazilian Navy's A-4s are former Kuwaiti Air Force machines. Pretty sweet seeing them doing fixed-wing carrier ops again.

Argentina's A-4s are called Fightinghawks and I think they're ex-USMC machines that have been upgraded with new electronincs by Lockheed Martin.

DirtyBird · 11-14-2001, 05:35 PM

Chicken I stand corrected, you are right.

Singapore, Argentina and Brazil and possibly Indonesia may be the last operational A-4 users left. The New Zealand Airforce operated them until a couple of months ago when they ceased to exist. Any other users you can come up with?

Celestar · 12-05-2001, 09:12 AM

ya....kc135 is for the f16s....and the kcs are equiped with the boom for a4s and f5s

11-10-2001, 12:22 PM	#1
Stanman Senior Collector Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Waxahachie, Texas, USA Posts: 426	KC-135R's at SIN A couple of weeks ago as the plane was lifting off at the ungodly hour of 0700 (which means check-in at 0430) I noticed that there was a KC-135R in SAF Singapore Armed Forces colours. Does anybody know when and why Singapore acquired these? Usually anything Singapore acquires is kept low key due to the political fragility of the region. At first I wondered if it was to help in the ferrying of their F-16's from Luke AFB or their base in Darwin. Still that's only a guess. Also are they old US Air Force inventory or converted 707's similar to the French? Just curious.

11-11-2001, 08:38 PM	#2
Sentinel Chicken Go-Getters Go Ozark Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: DFW/THE GREAT STATE OF TEXAS Posts: 4,167	Stanman, the Republic of Singapore Air Force (RSAF) got their first KC-135R in late 1999 and currently have 4 on strength with 112 Squadron based at Changi. The aircraft were former USAF KC-135As which were taken out of storage at AMARC/Davis-Monthan AFB in Arizona and upgraded to KC-135R standard by Boeing-Wichita. The original aircraft were painted in the old Shamu camo scheme (Gunship Grey uppersurfaces with Light Grey undersides) and were delivered to the RSAF in Air Mobility Command Grey, the current camo scheme of USAF tankers/transports. RSAF's tankers also have two wingtip probe/drogue refuelling pods as well and are also currently receiving the Pacer CRAG (compass/radar/GPS) update that the USAF is getting that adds a glass cockpit to the venerable old bird. RSAF tanker personnel train in Wichita at McConnell AFB with the 22nd Air Refuelling Wing there. They were acquired because their F-16s cannot refuel from the KC-130s they have already. __________________ *Piss on noise abatement!*

11-12-2001, 03:14 PM	#3
DirtyBird Master Collector Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Atlanta GA, USA Posts: 895	The Singapore Airforce has planes scattered half way around the world, I believe they have a contingent in Australia and several squadrons scattered about the US. I think this is mainly due to lack of adequate airspace and target ranges in Singapore, I am sure its hard to do combat manuevers when you can cross your nations airspace in under 10 seconds at top speed . __________________ Turkish Airlines DC-10-30 from Gemini Jets!

11-12-2001, 04:31 PM	#5
Sentinel Chicken Go-Getters Go Ozark Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: DFW/THE GREAT STATE OF TEXAS Posts: 4,167	Don't forget, the RSAF also has an A-4 training detachment in France at Cazaux AB I believe. I can't quite figure out why France got chosen, though. Perhaps the RSAF figures the more nations they work with the greater the base of knowledge their aircrews will obtain. __________________ *Piss on noise abatement!*

11-12-2001, 04:37 PM	#6
Sentinel Chicken Go-Getters Go Ozark Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: DFW/THE GREAT STATE OF TEXAS Posts: 4,167	Oh st, I almost forgot your question regarding the KC-130s of the RSAF- they were all second hand C-130Bs, 4 in the initial lot. 2 were ex-USAF and 2 were ex-Royal Jordanian AF. These 4 C-130s were subsequently converted into KC-130Bs and KC-130H was later obtained (not sure from where, I'll have to do some digging). I wouldn't be surprised if the RSAF took the KC-130s and converted them back to pure transport roles and let the new KC-135Rs do the air-to-air refuelling job. __________________ Piss on noise abatement!**

11-12-2001, 04:20 PM	#4
Stanman Senior Collector Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Waxahachie, Texas, USA Posts: 426	Thanks Doc and Dirty Bird! Yeah Singapore has its forces all over the place. At first all their F-16's were based at Lukes AFB when they had purchased them but didn't want them brought into the region because Indonesia and especially Malaysia weren't too happy with Singapore having them. When the Malaysians finally chose to buy both Hornets and MIGs then the point was mute and most of the F-16's have been brought back. There are also a squadron at a base near Darwin, Australia but that's not highly publicized for the same reason the squadron at Luke AFB was not highly publicized. That reason being you'd get a lot of billboards along the highways like we have just outside Dallas declaring that NATO is invading the US. Hopefully the Australians would be more laid back but you never know. The army has a number of tanks based in Taiwan for training purposes. The army also trains in Thailand I believe which can be hairy because they often run up against guerillas, smugglers, etc.. What a place to train but you're right. There's not much place to train on an island 20x40 miles and minimal air space. Doc! Where do you get your information? We're the KC-130's originally built as KC-130's or are they the ex-Iranian aircraft formerly ordered by the Shah but later sold to Singapore when the Iranian embargo took effect? Glad to know that aircraft that go to Davis-Monthan aren't always on a one-way trip. It was really sad when Air-Space had a cover with all these B-52's chopped into 5 pieces for satellite confirmation by the Russians.

11-13-2001, 03:22 PM	#7
Stanman Senior Collector Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Waxahachie, Texas, USA Posts: 426	SAF in France! That sure is strange since I think the only A-4 operators in the region are the Spanish Navy and the Israeli's. Maybe they were trying to drum up business for the SAI to do more conversions to the A-4S and needed some demonstrators. The SAF did buy Pumas though which is inline with Singapores philosophy of not totally relying one supplier of aircraft. Keeps the competitors on their toes such as Boeing vs Airbus.

11-13-2001, 10:34 PM	#8
Sentinel Chicken Go-Getters Go Ozark Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: DFW/THE GREAT STATE OF TEXAS Posts: 4,167	I did a little digging amongst all the stuff I have at home and found out that the RSAF trains its pilots on the A-4SUs at Cazaux AB in France for the space/room, but that Cazaux is also home to the ETO (don't ask me for what it means, it's in French) which is the advanced jet training school for the Armee de l'Air. The AdA uses Alpha Jets and co-locating the RSAF advanced jet training with the French ETO gives them access to a broad base of knowledge. __________________ *Piss on noise abatement!*

11-14-2001, 11:10 AM	#9
DirtyBird Master Collector Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Atlanta GA, USA Posts: 895	The Israeli's dont operate the A-4 anymore, they sold a bunch of them to either Brazil or Argentina a couple of years ago. I dont think the Spanish Navy or Airforce ever operated the A-4, They operate a naval version of the Harrier called the Matador off their aircraft carrier Principe de Austrias. __________________ Turkish Airlines DC-10-30 from Gemini Jets!

11-14-2001, 04:42 PM	#10
Sentinel Chicken Go-Getters Go Ozark Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: DFW/THE GREAT STATE OF TEXAS Posts: 4,167	I believe (I gotta check on this) that the Brazilian Navy's A-4s are former Kuwaiti Air Force machines. Pretty sweet seeing them doing fixed-wing carrier ops again. Argentina's A-4s are called Fightinghawks and I think they're ex-USMC machines that have been upgraded with new electronincs by Lockheed Martin. __________________ *Piss on noise abatement!*

11-14-2001, 05:35 PM	#11
DirtyBird Master Collector Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Atlanta GA, USA Posts: 895	Chicken I stand corrected, you are right. Singapore, Argentina and Brazil and possibly Indonesia may be the last operational A-4 users left. The New Zealand Airforce operated them until a couple of months ago when they ceased to exist. Any other users you can come up with? __________________ Turkish Airlines DC-10-30 from Gemini Jets!

12-05-2001, 09:12 AM	#12
Celestar Master Collector Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: singapore Age: 20 Posts: 509	ya....kc135 is for the f16s....and the kcs are equiped with the boom for a4s and f5s __________________ ___ ___ ==WINGSSINGAPORE==

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