Taliban singin' the BLUs

KJC · 11-06-2001, 03:17 AM

BLU-82s to be exact. I just read about this on CNN--that the U.S. is dropping these on Taliban frontlines. At 15,000 lbs, these are supposedly the largest conventional bombs in the world, and are called "Daisy Cutters".

I was just wondering if anyone could fill us in on these bombs-- are these "smart bombs", what is their capability, and why are they called "Daisy Cutters"?

Thanks

AlphaSigOU · 11-06-2001, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KJC
BLU-82s to be exact. I just read about this on CNN--that the U.S. is dropping these on Taliban frontlines. At 15,000 lbs, these are supposedly the largest conventional bombs in the world, and are called "Daisy Cutters".

I was just wondering if anyone could fill us in on these bombs-- are these "smart bombs", what is their capability, and why are they called "Daisy Cutters"?

The BLU-82 bomb is an FAE (fuel-air explosive) bomb, in which liquefied petroleum gas (propane) is mixed with the surrounding air shortly before ignition. The explosive effect is massive, almost the equivalent of a small tactical nuke without the accompanying radiation.

You could say that the 'Daisy Cutter' is the modern day equivalent of the WWII British 'Tallboy' bomb, but the 'Tallboy' was designed to punch through and destroy heavily reinforced concrete bunkers such as the U-boat pens at St. Nazaire, France.

Originally, the BLU-82 was designed as a quick and dirty way to blow away a clearing for a helicopter landing zone in the dense jungles of Vietnam; before long the extreme destructive power of this bomb was also used to kill exposed troops. If the fireball doesn't toast you first, the massive shockwave will.

It got its nickname 'Daisy Cutter' in a bit of macabre military humor; the force of the explosion blew away trees just like one would cut daisies in a field.

The BLU-82 is not a 'smart' bomb. It usually is dropped off the cargo ramp of a C-130. (Hmmm... should they now be re-designated BC-130s?

) The fall of the bomb is slowed down by a parachute and the bomb detonates usually before hitting the ground, to maximize the explosive effect.

DeltaFlot · 11-06-2001, 06:50 PM

i just find it amazing that a cargo plane and its attack version are causing a good portionof the damge over there. yehaa Lockheed!

KJC · 11-06-2001, 10:25 PM

Interesting. Thanks for the info Chuck.

Sentinel Chicken · 11-07-2001, 12:30 PM

During the Gulf War a Big Blue 82 got dropped on the Iraqi frontlines and supposedly a British Army commander thought a tactical nuke had just been used!

Most of the damage in a Daisy Cutter explosion comes from the atmospheric pressure wave the detonation of the fuel-air mixture- it's strong enough to knock over concrete walls and can literally suck the air out of one's lungs causing suffocation.

There were some old shots on CNN last night of a Daisy Cutter being used in Vietnam. You can see the pressure wave moving out from the explosion.

AlphaSigOU · 11-07-2001, 07:15 PM

Turns out that the nickname, 'Daisy Cutter' was because the damage pattern resembled that of a daisy in bloom.

While the exact composition of the explosive composition in the BLU-82 is classified -- some sources say it's either aluminum or magnesium powder, which is highly flammable, with the addition of propane or other pressurized gas to help spread its explosive power before ignition.

BLU-82s are best applied from mid to low level (around 10,000 feet) -- tossing it from a B-52 at high altitude can be done, but winds aloft could possibly steer the bomb into the wrong area. You only have to be close, not dead-nuts accurate.

Sentinel Chicken · 11-08-2001, 10:58 PM

I'm not so sure that the BLU-82/B can even fit in the bomb bay of the B-52. That daggum thing is about near the size of a VW Beetle and has a fuse that pokes out the front at least 3-4 feet. They're usually mounted on a special caradle and parachute that allows them to roll right off the back ramp of the C-130. The parachute stablizes the bomb before it's disconnected from the cradle/parachute to fall on its own.

Some information I've come across states that the BLU-82/B isn't necessarily a fuel-air explosive but rather a conventional explosive- 12600 lbs of a GSX slurry (basically an aluminum powder) that creates an overpressure simply through the brute force of the explosion. This overpressure can run depending on local conditions from 200-1000 psi.

Eleven were used during the Gulf War and were codenamed "Commando Vault".

That's one big f-ing bang.

KJC · 11-09-2001, 06:17 AM

Nice pic, Chicken! Reminds me of Dr. Strangelove YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!

Sentinel Chicken · 11-09-2001, 12:01 PM

Yeah, KJC, I had the same thought too, when I found that pic on the internet.

As an aside to the fuel-air explosive discussion, I've read somewhere (either in Aviation Week or Proceedings) that the US is working on a newer generation FAE that's less affected by weather conditions, which was always one of the weaknesses of the current crop of FAEs in the US arsenal.

Scott · 11-13-2001, 12:34 AM

Looks like the Taliban will be pushing up blu daisies!!
Osama, you're next..........

DeltaFlot · 11-13-2001, 02:21 AM

Hell yea! tell it like it is scott!

Scott · 11-15-2001, 01:13 AM

That's right, Deltaflot! Osama, this blu's for you!

egonzinc · 11-18-2001, 07:36 PM

I'm not sure if it referred to this bomb in particular, but I remember reading about the effect of these massive explotions on underground caves and the enemy troops that occupy them. The explotion was so massive thast it would suck out the oxygen from all the sorrounding areas including caves.
E

DavidMich · 12-03-2001, 10:19 PM

the BLU-82 is 5,000 pound guided munition that went from drawing board to deployment in just 6 weeks during the gulf war.
However, it's nicknamed the "bunker buster" not daisycutter.
Daisy-cutter refers to the extended fuse on the MK-82 GP bombs that detonates above ground destroying s*it like cutting daisies. In the gulf war BLU-82s sometimes penetrated up to 50ft underground to destroy bunkers. When i was a cadet in the CAP, i went to Eglin AFB for a week in 1994, there they showed us the weapons development center, and film on the development of special munitions from early vietnam to present, very cool tour.

AlphaSigOU · 12-04-2001, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavidMich
the BLU-82 is 5,000 pound guided munition that went from drawing board to deployment in just 6 weeks during the gulf war.
However, it's nicknamed the "bunker buster" not daisycutter.
Daisy-cutter refers to the extended fuse on the MK-82 GP bombs that detonates above ground destroying s*it like cutting daisies. In the gulf war BLU-82s sometimes penetrated up to 50ft underground to destroy bunkers. When i was a cadet in the CAP, i went to Eglin AFB for a week in 1994, there they showed us the weapons development center, and film on the development of special munitions from early vietnam to present, very cool tour.

Actually, the 'bunker buster' bomb is designated the GBU-28. The casing was surplus artillery cannon barrels. But you're right about the 'daisy cutter' fuze (in ammo, it's spelled with a 'z' instead of an 's'); the BLU-82 also adopted the name, though it uses a proximity and not a contact fuse.

BTW, was a CAP cadet from 1977-1985, and a senior member until 1988. GA, FL, overseas and NATCAP wings. Made it to C/MAJ as a cadet, then was briefly TFO and later 1LT as a senior. Attended ATCFC (Air Training Command Familiarization Course) at Laughlin AFB and AFLCOP (Air Force Logistics Command Orientation Program) as a cadet. (Shows you how long it's been, I know about the changes in command names now!

)

DavidMich · 12-04-2001, 01:12 AM

yeah, i had a lot of fun, i was a cadet from 1992 to 1999, made it as far as C/2LT, went to 2 FL Wing encampments both at Eglin AFB (1994,1995), and National Flight Encampment (NFA) in 1997.
I worked security for Airfest at MacDill AFB every spring 1993-98. I just fnished A&P school so wherever i get a job is where i'm going to rejoin CAP as a senior member.

AlphaSigOU · 12-04-2001, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavidMich
yeah, i had a lot of fun, i was a cadet from 1992 to 1999, made it as far as C/2LT, went to 2 FL Wing encampments both at Eglin AFB (1994,1995), and National Flight Encampment (NFA) in 1997.
I worked security for Airfest at MacDill AFB every spring 1993-98. I just fnished A&P school so wherever i get a job is where i'm going to rejoin CAP as a senior member.

Cool! When you rejoin as a senior, don't forget to show 'em your Mitchell award - automatic promotion to 2LT and you get credit for Level I in the senior training program. Earhart = 1LT, Spaatz = CPT. (Unless the new Eaker award qualifies as well.)

Used to be cadet commander of North Miami Cadet Squadron (08125, now FL125) back in the early '80s. Was also chairman of the FL Group 15 Cadet Advisory Council. (Really sucked to have to take off the CAC 'red rope' anytime we were at an an encampment at the old Orlando Naval Training Center - the only red ropes at NTC were the Navy drill instructors.)

DavidMich · 12-04-2001, 01:42 AM

I stayed with Group 6 west coast FL Wing, joined SRQ squadron(08033) in Aug 1992 until 1997 then joined the Venice Composite Squadron until 1999 (turned 21) I did go to CAC when i got the chance to, cz i also did AJROTC at the same time and was more active with the rifle team (it's fun wearing 2 different uniforms) But i mainly joined for the flying.

Continentalboy · 12-18-2001, 06:11 PM

what planes are carying thoses bombs

AlphaSigOU · 12-19-2001, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Continentalboy
what planes are carying thoses bombs

MC-130 'Combat Talon' is the usual delivery vehicle for the BLU-82 'Daisy Cutter' bomb, though any ol' C-130 will do in a pinch. Too big to cram inside a B-52's bomb bay.

GBU-28 'Bunker Busters' were certified to be carried on F-111s, but they're long since retired. Dunno what other aircraft are also certified to drop the GBU-28. Not sure if the F-117 can fit that behemoth in its internal weapons bays, so I'm guessing the F-15E 'Beagles'.

11-06-2001, 03:17 AM	#1
KJC Insane Collector Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Pasadena, CA Age: 37 Posts: 2,529	Taliban singin' the BLUs BLU-82s to be exact. I just read about this on CNN--that the U.S. is dropping these on Taliban frontlines. At 15,000 lbs, these are supposedly the largest conventional bombs in the world, and are called "Daisy Cutters". I was just wondering if anyone could fill us in on these bombs-- are these "smart bombs", what is their capability, and why are they called "Daisy Cutters"? Thanks __________________ The white zones are for the immediate loading and unloading of passengers only. No parking!

11-06-2001, 06:50 PM	#3
DeltaFlot The Patriot Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Laurel, MD Age: 36 Posts: 3,228	i just find it amazing that a cargo plane and its attack version are causing a good portionof the damge over there. yehaa Lockheed! __________________ Febuary 15, 1898 December 7, 1941 June 8, 1967 September 11, 2001 Never Forget, Never Forgive If you kick the Tiger in the arse, you better be able to deal with the Tiger's teeth.

11-06-2001, 10:25 PM	#4
KJC Insane Collector Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Pasadena, CA Age: 37 Posts: 2,529	Interesting. Thanks for the info Chuck. __________________ The white zones are for the immediate loading and unloading of passengers only. No parking!

11-07-2001, 12:30 PM	#5
Sentinel Chicken Go-Getters Go Ozark Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: DFW/THE GREAT STATE OF TEXAS Posts: 4,167	During the Gulf War a Big Blue 82 got dropped on the Iraqi frontlines and supposedly a British Army commander thought a tactical nuke had just been used! Most of the damage in a Daisy Cutter explosion comes from the atmospheric pressure wave the detonation of the fuel-air mixture- it's strong enough to knock over concrete walls and can literally suck the air out of one's lungs causing suffocation. There were some old shots on CNN last night of a Daisy Cutter being used in Vietnam. You can see the pressure wave moving out from the explosion. __________________ *Piss on noise abatement!*

11-07-2001, 07:15 PM	#6
AlphaSigOU Insane Collector Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: Wylie, Texas Age: 44 Posts: 1,419	Some additions and clarifications Turns out that the nickname, 'Daisy Cutter' was because the damage pattern resembled that of a daisy in bloom. While the exact composition of the explosive composition in the BLU-82 is classified -- some sources say it's either aluminum or magnesium powder, which is highly flammable, with the addition of propane or other pressurized gas to help spread its explosive power before ignition. BLU-82s are best applied from mid to low level (around 10,000 feet) -- tossing it from a B-52 at high altitude can be done, but winds aloft could possibly steer the bomb into the wrong area. You only have to be close, not dead-nuts accurate. __________________ *Chuck Corway (AlphaSigOU)* *Causa latet vis est notissima* -- the cause is hidden, the results are well known. James Bond: "I'll take the full odds on the ten, two hundred on the hard way, the limit on all the numbers, two hundred and fifty on the eleven, thank you very much." Plenty O'Toole: "Hey! You've played this game before!" James Bond: "Just once." *REMEMBER THE ALAMO!!! REMEMBER PEARL HARBOR!!! REMEMBER SEPTEMBER 11!!!!*

11-08-2001, 10:58 PM	#7
Sentinel Chicken Go-Getters Go Ozark Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: DFW/THE GREAT STATE OF TEXAS Posts: 4,167	I'm not so sure that the BLU-82/B can even fit in the bomb bay of the B-52. That daggum thing is about near the size of a VW Beetle and has a fuse that pokes out the front at least 3-4 feet. They're usually mounted on a special caradle and parachute that allows them to roll right off the back ramp of the C-130. The parachute stablizes the bomb before it's disconnected from the cradle/parachute to fall on its own. Some information I've come across states that the BLU-82/B isn't necessarily a fuel-air explosive but rather a conventional explosive- 12600 lbs of a GSX slurry (basically an aluminum powder) that creates an overpressure simply through the brute force of the explosion. This overpressure can run depending on local conditions from 200-1000 psi. Eleven were used during the Gulf War and were codenamed "Commando Vault". That's one big f-ing bang. __________________ *Piss on noise abatement!*

11-09-2001, 06:17 AM	#8
KJC Insane Collector Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Pasadena, CA Age: 37 Posts: 2,529	Nice pic, Chicken! Reminds me of Dr. Strangelove YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH! __________________ The white zones are for the immediate loading and unloading of passengers only. No parking!

11-09-2001, 12:01 PM	#9
Sentinel Chicken Go-Getters Go Ozark Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: DFW/THE GREAT STATE OF TEXAS Posts: 4,167	Yeah, KJC, I had the same thought too, when I found that pic on the internet. As an aside to the fuel-air explosive discussion, I've read somewhere (either in Aviation Week or Proceedings) that the US is working on a newer generation FAE that's less affected by weather conditions, which was always one of the weaknesses of the current crop of FAEs in the US arsenal. __________________ *Piss on noise abatement!*

11-13-2001, 12:34 AM	#10
Scott Insane Collector Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Escondido, Ca. USA Age: 50 Posts: 2,763	Looks like the Taliban will be pushing up blu daisies!! Osama, you're next.......... __________________ Fly the Friendly Skies of United uniTED takes wing Feb 12, 2004

11-13-2001, 02:21 AM	#11
DeltaFlot The Patriot Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Laurel, MD Age: 36 Posts: 3,228	Hell yea! tell it like it is scott! __________________ Febuary 15, 1898 December 7, 1941 June 8, 1967 September 11, 2001 Never Forget, Never Forgive If you kick the Tiger in the arse, you better be able to deal with the Tiger's teeth.

11-15-2001, 01:13 AM	#12
Scott Insane Collector Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Escondido, Ca. USA Age: 50 Posts: 2,763	That's right, Deltaflot! Osama, this blu's for you! __________________ Fly the Friendly Skies of United uniTED takes wing Feb 12, 2004

11-18-2001, 07:36 PM	#13
egonzinc Insane Collector Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: Guaynabo,Puerto Rico, USA Age: 52 Posts: 1,733	I'm not sure if it referred to this bomb in particular, but I remember reading about the effect of these massive explotions on underground caves and the enemy troops that occupy them. The explotion was so massive thast it would suck out the oxygen from all the sorrounding areas including caves. E

12-03-2001, 10:19 PM	#14
DavidMich Registered User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Back in MCO! Posts: 3,626	Re: Big BLU-82 facts the BLU-82 is 5,000 pound guided munition that went from drawing board to deployment in just 6 weeks during the gulf war. However, it's nicknamed the "bunker buster" not daisycutter. Daisy-cutter refers to the extended fuse on the MK-82 GP bombs that detonates above ground destroying sit like cutting daisies. In the gulf war BLU-82s sometimes penetrated up to 50ft underground to destroy bunkers. When i was a cadet in the CAP, i went to Eglin AFB for a week in 1994, there they showed us the weapons development center, and film on the development of special munitions from early vietnam to present, very cool tour. __________________ "So if man is 5, and the devil is 6, then that must make me 7,,,this honky's gone to heaven!" Last edited by DavidMich; 12-03-2001 at 10:22 PM.*

12-04-2001, 01:12 AM	#16
DavidMich Registered User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Back in MCO! Posts: 3,626	Re: BLUs and CAP yeah, i had a lot of fun, i was a cadet from 1992 to 1999, made it as far as C/2LT, went to 2 FL Wing encampments both at Eglin AFB (1994,1995), and National Flight Encampment (NFA) in 1997. I worked security for Airfest at MacDill AFB every spring 1993-98. I just fnished A&P school so wherever i get a job is where i'm going to rejoin CAP as a senior member. __________________ "So if man is 5, and the devil is 6, then that must make me 7,,,this honky's gone to heaven!"

12-04-2001, 01:42 AM	#18
DavidMich Registered User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Back in MCO! Posts: 3,626	Re: CAP I stayed with Group 6 west coast FL Wing, joined SRQ squadron(08033) in Aug 1992 until 1997 then joined the Venice Composite Squadron until 1999 (turned 21) I did go to CAC when i got the chance to, cz i also did AJROTC at the same time and was more active with the rifle team (it's fun wearing 2 different uniforms) But i mainly joined for the flying. __________________ "So if man is 5, and the devil is 6, then that must make me 7,,,this honky's gone to heaven!"

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12-18-2001, 06:11 PM	#19
Continentalboy Senior Collector Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 306	what planes are carying thoses bombs __________________ HEllo