B-2 Stealth Bomber Crashes

TexAV8R · 02-23-2008, 12:07 PM

Stealth bomber crashes; pilots safe - CNN.com

D-AIHC · 02-23-2008, 12:24 PM

Good to know the pilots are safe but there goes $1.2B!!!

gospodin · 02-23-2008, 02:02 PM

Who didn't see this coming at some point? Well, now they have an even 20 of these things. Maybe they can glue this one back together again....

corby78 · 02-23-2008, 08:20 PM

Its a long process every time these things have bird strikes to get them perfect again. I hate to say it but this one is gone. And this happens on the same weekend a B-52 had to land at Minot International. Not a good week for bombers.

gospodin · 02-23-2008, 08:48 PM

Yeah, there's an attrition rate for all of these aircraft. That's why I have to agree that the Air Force needs those 381 F-22s...who knows how many are going to be digging holes over the years. And at $350 mil a pop, that's a big chunk of change. Thank goodness the F-35 is soo much cheaper...HA

corby78 · 02-23-2008, 09:09 PM

Well the days of pumping out hundreds and hundred of tanks, planes, ships, ect.. are well over. Every piece of military equipment cost so much its a huge loss when things like this happen. Soon war is going to be so expensive, armies will go back to swords, shields, and one large field.

Groover158 · 02-25-2008, 05:05 AM

I guess that aircraft are also becoming more reliable which hopefully brings down the attrition rate.

As an example, Australia operated 116 Dassault Mirage IIIO aircraft between Nov 1963 and Feb 1989 (25 years) for the loss of 41 aircraft during its life. (35% aircraft attrition) This includes 11 fatal crashes for the loss of 11 aircrew.

Alternately, Australia replaced the 116 Mirages with 75 F/A-18 Hornets which have been in operation since May 1985 and still operate (23 years so far with a planned withdrawal date of around 2015) with the loss of 4 aircraft (and hopefully no more). (5% attrition) Unfortunately, all 4 crashes have resulted in fatalities with the loss of 5 (4 aircrew and 1 DSTO Scientist).

Interestingly, whilst the aircraft attrition rate was much higher for the Mirage, survivability in the event of a crash seems to be a great deal lower than that of the Hornet. I'm not sure what gives here, I would have assumed that the Hornet would have significant advances in terms of aircrew egress and survivability systems compared with the Mirage. Perhaps the aircrew's confidence in the modern day systems is such that they falsely believe they can still gather it up.

As an aside, I was lucky enough to get a Hornet ride a few years ago and during the pre-flight brief, the Pilot (my future CO) said to me; "In the event of a major failure of the aircraft you will hear me say; EJECT; EJECT; WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU STILL DOING IN HERE, RAY; EJECT"

I hope this has been food for thought.

QFA388 · 02-25-2008, 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gospodin

Who didn't see this coming at some point? Well, now they have an even 20 of these things. Maybe they can glue this one back together again....

I read somewhere that because it was so stealthy they can't find the wreckage

Here's a picture of my Dragon Wings Stealth Bomber.
I think it is a great model.
The F-117 that comes with it is very nice too.

gospodin · 02-25-2008, 08:28 AM

Of course, how many of those crashes were human error rather than mechanical failure? Human error almost always involves a fatality, whereas a mechanical problem many times gives the opportunity for escape. There aren't that many pilots willing to ride their plane into the ground if they can help it (although the pilots of that billion-dollar B-2 must have thought about it...).

gospodin · 02-25-2008, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QFA388

I read somewhere that because it was so stealthy they can't find the wreckage

Here's a picture of my Dragon Wings Stealth Bomber.
I think it is a great model.
The F-117 that comes with it is very nice too.

Nice pics there, Q...but I think I see their shadows, and there's definitely an oil stain under the B-2....

QFA388 · 02-25-2008, 08:42 AM

Ya found me by the old shadow trick!

C-Rex · 02-25-2008, 09:00 AM

I wonder how many mouths that $1.2B could feed in the 3rd world country ? Maybe you experts can share your knowledge why USAF needed that many B2's

Mystère · 02-25-2008, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C-Rex

I wonder how many mouths that $1.2B could feed in the 3rd world country ? Maybe you experts can share your knowledge why USAF needed that many B2's

Endless debate... Do we need weapons and war ? Of course not. Do we have them anyway ? Unfortunately yes. Anyone willing to argue ?...

D-AIHC · 02-25-2008, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C-Rex

I wonder how many mouths that $1.2B could feed in the 3rd world country ?

In many parts of the 3rd world, a lot of people live on $1 a day...that will make it 1.2B people, about 20% of the world's population.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mystère

Endless debate...

And you're right, it's an endless debate...why don't you tell us more about the Mirage?

Mystère · 02-25-2008, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-AIHC

And you're right, it's an endless debate...why don't you tell us more about the Mirage?

Well, it's an optical illusion often encountered in deserts, isn't it ?...

tripoli · 02-25-2008, 02:19 PM

"I wonder how many mouths that $1.2B could feed in the 3rd world country ? Maybe you experts can share your knowledge why USAF needed that many B2's"

Think about it for a bit. Say you did take all the money for war machines and defense and spent it on food and material things instead. So now you have a huge population that wants more material things. The Human factor, greed, want, power, etc, comes into play and suddenly you have a mass war. Because in history, there have always been bad people, people that want things they cannot have, people that take things they don't deserve. Good people that do nothing to let bad things happen because they think it really should not happen and end up allowing things to happen in a very bad way.

THATS why we spend money on defense like we do. Because as much as we hate to admit it, there are bad people out there that do bad things. And giving them peace, foods and comfort is not what bad people want. Evil wins when good people do nothing.

Mystère · 02-25-2008, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tripoli

Because as much as we hate to admit it, there are bad people out there that do bad things. And giving them peace, foods and comfort is not what bad people want. Evil wins when good people do nothing.

Strange way of seeing human nature. So I guess in your mind those "bad people" were born "bad" too...

champpitbull2 · 02-25-2008, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C-Rex

I wonder how many mouths that $1.2B could feed in the 3rd world country ? Maybe you experts can share your knowledge why USAF needed that many B2's

This isn't the UNICEF forum, this is the 1:1 scale Military Aviation forum last I checked.

gospodin · 02-25-2008, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C-Rex

I wonder how many mouths that $1.2B could feed in the 3rd world country ? Maybe you experts can share your knowledge why USAF needed that many B2's

There will always be mouths to feed regardless of whether we buy mega-expensive bombers or not. How many people would the money for an aircraft carrier feed? I do know that these are weapons deemed important to the defense of our nation by people wayyy smarter and more knowledgeable than most of us here. But I have to admit, before they began flying some pretty spectacular and successful missions, I thought the B-2 was going to be the world's most expensive lawn ornament...they'd be too afraid to fly the thing!

corby78 · 02-25-2008, 09:22 PM

QFA, nice pic, the wonder women jet looks great in the background.

Mystere, God bless your dream world, but in reality the B-2 and all the other military aircraft are needed. End of story. Besides those third world countries are not always that peacefull themselves. Ethiopia, Eritrea, Sudan, ect...

C-Rex · 02-25-2008, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by champpitbull2

This isn't the UNICEF forum, this is the 1:1 scale Military Aviation forum last I checked.

Last time I checked, it is called sarcasm. Yes ofcourse because of the Coldwar, and the US had lots of funds at that time... and the coldwar ended, funds lacked.. or did it ??

Look, man I'm in favor to it as much as you are, but just think about it, forget the war and stuff like "we need this aircrafts because of the bad people here and there". Just put that on the side for just one second, I believe US used to have 22 B-2's or more, correct me if Im wrong. well make that 21 x B2's now, because of the downed aircraft. 22 x 1.2Billion of dollars would make these third world populations going from skinny to fat people like the average american in no time. No offense to americans here.

corby78 · 02-25-2008, 10:17 PM

c-rex, You have just totaly insulted me.......as I sit here and eat my bowl of ice cream with hershey syrup.

champpitbull2 · 02-25-2008, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C-Rex

Last time I checked, it is called sarcasm. Yes ofcourse because of the Coldwar, and the US had lots of funds at that time... and the coldwar ended, funds lacked.. or did it ??

Look, man I'm in favor to it as much as you are, but just think about it, forget the war and stuff like "we need this aircrafts because of the bad people here and there". Just put that on the side for just one second, I believe US used to have 22 B-2's or more, correct me if Im wrong. well make that 21 x B2's now, because of the downed aircraft. 22 x 1.2Billion of dollars would make these third world populations going from skinny to fat people like the average american in no time. No offense to americans here.

Sarcasm, really? I would have never guessed. In the real world, the B-2 is needed and justified. In the real world 26 billion dollars won't go that far in feeding these third world nations. First off, the logistics will eat up huge amounts of that figure. Second, war and corruption will eat up even more of that figure. By the time the food actually gets to it's destination you'll be lucky if you have a quarter of that figure.

corby78 · 02-26-2008, 11:00 AM

Im all about the flower power

tripoli · 02-26-2008, 11:16 AM

"Strange way of seeing human nature. So I guess in your mind those "bad people" were born "bad" too."

Your bad assumption, not mine.

But the reality is there are and always have been bad people in the world. To not see that is to blind yourself to the point of being dangerous to yourself and those around you. Those that try to push a peaceful movement of no arms are the ones that allow evil to persist and gain a good foothold in the world.

If the world was perfect, I would not mi

02-23-2008, 12:07 PM	#1
TexAV8R Senior Collector Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 290	B-2 Stealth Bomber Crashes Stealth bomber crashes; pilots safe - CNN.com __________________ Stay on the bomb run, boys! I'm gonna get them doors open if it harelips ever'body on Bear Creek!(Major T.J "King Kong" from the movie Dr. Strangelove) Last edited by TexAV8R; 02-23-2008 at 12:09 PM.

02-23-2008, 12:24 PM	#2
D-AIHC Essen Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 6,192	Good to know the pilots are safe but there goes $1.2B!!! __________________ Lufthansa - Star Alliance member since 1997

02-23-2008, 02:02 PM	#3
gospodin Diecast Blasphemer Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Ceti Alpha V Age: 52 Posts: 3,626	Re: B-2 Stealth Bomber Crashes Who didn't see this coming at some point? Well, now they have an even 20 of these things. Maybe they can glue this one back together again.... __________________ Steve I either want less corruption in government, or more opportunity to participate in it.

02-23-2008, 08:20 PM	#4
corby78 Buff man Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Nevada Posts: 249	Re: B-2 Stealth Bomber Crashes Its a long process every time these things have bird strikes to get them perfect again. I hate to say it but this one is gone. And this happens on the same weekend a B-52 had to land at Minot International. Not a good week for bombers.

02-23-2008, 08:48 PM	#5
gospodin Diecast Blasphemer Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Ceti Alpha V Age: 52 Posts: 3,626	Re: B-2 Stealth Bomber Crashes Yeah, there's an attrition rate for all of these aircraft. That's why I have to agree that the Air Force needs those 381 F-22s...who knows how many are going to be digging holes over the years. And at $350 mil a pop, that's a big chunk of change. Thank goodness the F-35 is soo much cheaper...HA __________________ Steve I either want less corruption in government, or more opportunity to participate in it.

02-23-2008, 09:09 PM	#6
corby78 Buff man Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Nevada Posts: 249	Re: B-2 Stealth Bomber Crashes Well the days of pumping out hundreds and hundred of tanks, planes, ships, ect.. are well over. Every piece of military equipment cost so much its a huge loss when things like this happen. Soon war is going to be so expensive, armies will go back to swords, shields, and one large field.

02-25-2008, 05:05 AM	#7
Groover158 Aussie Icon Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Adelaide, Australia Age: 43 Posts: 414	Re: B-2 Stealth Bomber Crashes I guess that aircraft are also becoming more reliable which hopefully brings down the attrition rate. As an example, Australia operated 116 Dassault Mirage IIIO aircraft between Nov 1963 and Feb 1989 (25 years) for the loss of 41 aircraft during its life. (35% aircraft attrition) This includes 11 fatal crashes for the loss of 11 aircrew. Alternately, Australia replaced the 116 Mirages with 75 F/A-18 Hornets which have been in operation since May 1985 and still operate (23 years so far with a planned withdrawal date of around 2015) with the loss of 4 aircraft (and hopefully no more). (5% attrition) Unfortunately, all 4 crashes have resulted in fatalities with the loss of 5 (4 aircrew and 1 DSTO Scientist). Interestingly, whilst the aircraft attrition rate was much higher for the Mirage, survivability in the event of a crash seems to be a great deal lower than that of the Hornet. I'm not sure what gives here, I would have assumed that the Hornet would have significant advances in terms of aircrew egress and survivability systems compared with the Mirage. Perhaps the aircrew's confidence in the modern day systems is such that they falsely believe they can still gather it up. As an aside, I was lucky enough to get a Hornet ride a few years ago and during the pre-flight brief, the Pilot (my future CO) said to me; "In the event of a major failure of the aircraft you will hear me say; EJECT; EJECT; WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU STILL DOING IN HERE, RAY; EJECT" I hope this has been food for thought. __________________ ________________________________________________ My Collection: http://www.diecastaircraftforum.com/...tion-4746.html

02-25-2008, 08:28 AM	#9
gospodin Diecast Blasphemer Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Ceti Alpha V Age: 52 Posts: 3,626	Re: B-2 Stealth Bomber Crashes Of course, how many of those crashes were human error rather than mechanical failure? Human error almost always involves a fatality, whereas a mechanical problem many times gives the opportunity for escape. There aren't that many pilots willing to ride their plane into the ground if they can help it (although the pilots of that billion-dollar B-2 must have thought about it...). __________________ Steve I either want less corruption in government, or more opportunity to participate in it.

02-25-2008, 08:42 AM	#11
QFA388 Buying only what I like Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 47 Posts: 1,288	Re: B-2 Stealth Bomber Crashes Ya found me by the old shadow trick!

02-25-2008, 09:00 AM	#12
C-Rex Registered User Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,275	Re: B-2 Stealth Bomber Crashes I wonder how many mouths that $1.2B could feed in the 3rd world country ? Maybe you experts can share your knowledge why USAF needed that many B2's

02-25-2008, 02:19 PM	#16
tripoli Senior Collector Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Toledo, Ohio, USA Posts: 152	Re: B-2 Stealth Bomber Crashes "I wonder how many mouths that $1.2B could feed in the 3rd world country ? Maybe you experts can share your knowledge why USAF needed that many B2's" Think about it for a bit. Say you did take all the money for war machines and defense and spent it on food and material things instead. So now you have a huge population that wants more material things. The Human factor, greed, want, power, etc, comes into play and suddenly you have a mass war. Because in history, there have always been bad people, people that want things they cannot have, people that take things they don't deserve. Good people that do nothing to let bad things happen because they think it really should not happen and end up allowing things to happen in a very bad way. THATS why we spend money on defense like we do. Because as much as we hate to admit it, there are bad people out there that do bad things. And giving them peace, foods and comfort is not what bad people want. Evil wins when good people do nothing. __________________ Jeff Last edited by tripoli; 02-25-2008 at 02:24 PM.

02-25-2008, 09:22 PM	#20
corby78 Buff man Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Nevada Posts: 249	Re: B-2 Stealth Bomber Crashes QFA, nice pic, the wonder women jet looks great in the background. Mystere, God bless your dream world, but in reality the B-2 and all the other military aircraft are needed. End of story. Besides those third world countries are not always that peacefull themselves. Ethiopia, Eritrea, Sudan, ect...

02-25-2008, 10:17 PM	#22
corby78 Buff man Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Nevada Posts: 249	Re: B-2 Stealth Bomber Crashes c-rex, You have just totaly insulted me.......as I sit here and eat my bowl of ice cream with hershey syrup.

02-26-2008, 11:00 AM	#24
corby78 Buff man Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Nevada Posts: 249	Re: B-2 Stealth Bomber Crashes Im all about the flower power