Singapore maritime helicopter

Celestar · 05-16-2002, 06:18 AM

well...the RSAF is getting a chopper for its new sleath frigate ready by 2008.There are sources that we are considering the EH101, Super Puma, Sea Hawk and some other chopper that i forgot... any suggestions or comments?

justin · 05-16-2002, 12:16 PM

I know I risk accusations of bias and batting for the home side here, but I honestly believe the EH101 is the best ship board ASW helicopter in the world, ahead of the SH60. The NH90 will be good too, but it is smaller with a lower take off weight than the EH101 with poorer growth potential and rough weather operating capability. I'd not rule out the Lynx either, the latest version of the Super Lynx is a magnificent machine, if the EH101 is considered too large the Lynx is the one I'd go with. I've never been impressed by the Super Puma (isn't it now the Cougar?) and as far as I know it's never been used as a ship board ASW platform, I'd guess Eurocopter will push either the Dauphin or NH90.

Justin

Celestar · 05-16-2002, 09:01 PM

yeah the puma seemed to be to big for a ship

Spectre · 05-16-2002, 09:42 PM

wait...Isnt the NH90 and EH101 too big as well for ships?
sorry for my ignorance...but they seem too big for destroyers and Frigates..mayby for a helicopter carrier? am I wrong? ( the great todd isn't wrong is he? ) HAHAHA

Celestar · 05-17-2002, 02:06 AM

hmm....yeah...at least EH101 had a ramp at the rear for cargo and those crappy things

justin · 05-17-2002, 06:05 AM

The EH101 is indeed a big chopper, much bigger even than the NH90, but both are designed as shipboard ASW platforms. The Royal Navy will fly the EH101 from the Type 23 frigates and the Type 45 destroyers which have just been ordered. I must admit it looks mighty big to land on those little heli decks

The ASW Merlin has no ramp, that is the utility version, they are VERY different beasts.

Justin

Celestar · 05-17-2002, 09:02 AM

oh...ok..
actually..i really wish RSAF orders at chopper that is capable of ASW and anti surface capabilities...Seahawk is not effective in ant shipping..only able to use the Pengiun ASM...Cougar..however..is little old and so far i only seen it carrying Exocet missiles.
EH101 and NH 90 i am not sure

heard of any that carries Harpoon missiles?

Spectre · 05-17-2002, 09:13 AM

Thanks for sett'n me straight Justin

justin · 05-17-2002, 12:50 PM

No probs

The SH60 actually has a pretty effestive AsuW capability against smaller vessels like FAC's, the Penguin is not in the first flush of youth but is still a pretty effective missile. The Lynx in RN service carries the Sea Skua, a very effective weapon against surface targets, in a similar class as Penguin.

Justin

Spectre · 05-17-2002, 03:21 PM

I am not a fan of the SHEHAWK (yes she)
I do however dig the lynx

the HH-60 family is used as a save all platform...and thought it is good as an UH-1 replacement... I am not sure is is powerful enought as a ASW platform...from wha Ihear..they are maxed out on generator usage with that equipment..and design limitations prevent a larger generator type (WOOPS)

Celestar · 05-18-2002, 08:37 AM

1.i think there is not really a big need for a anti ship helicopter since the frigate is sleath in the first place!

2.i think SH-60 and Super Lynx have a bid chance of being the ASW chopper for RSAF

justin · 05-18-2002, 05:56 PM

Actually the need for an AsuW capability depends on the vessels tasking. For carrier escort groups a helicopter borne ASuW capability is not really essential as the carrier air wing provides a defensive cordon against any surface threats. Similarly if a vessel is operating under a land based air umbrella it's of secondary importance. However for ships with no air cover screen it's essential, as by the time a surface target comes within range of the mother ships defences, the mother ship will itself be a target for the enemy. Many navies would consider losing a small FAC for a frigate or destroyer a good exchange.... Hence the need for the vessels helicopters to scout, act as a defensive screen and destroy targets like FAC's. In the case of larger ships like frigates or destroyers it's unlikely a helicopter could make a successful attack as their AA systems would be too powerful.
Weight has always been the bane of ASW chopper designers, a major reason why heavy machines like the Sea King and EH101 are popular in the role, allowing good growth potential and also being able to operate safely in rough weather with a heavy take off weight. Some smaller designs rely on using the mother vessels sensors via data link to reduce the equipment carried on board but this introduces it's own problems too.

Justin

Celestar · 05-19-2002, 08:52 AM

but i think the problem is that the chopper might give away the frigate's stealth position

justin · 05-19-2002, 01:57 PM

Stealth is not the magic that people like to pretend on warships. Stealth is a relative term, and in the case of warships is more a reduction in radar signature than a invisibility cloak. I work on offshore semi sub oil drilling rigs, and our rig radar has picked up the Israeli stealth corvettes and USN Arleigh Burke class destroyers despite the fact that both designs paid a lot of attention to reducing the radar signature.

Justin

Spectre · 05-19-2002, 04:25 PM

Stealthy is differient then stealth

Celestar · 05-20-2002, 05:09 AM

ok.i see

05-16-2002, 06:18 AM	#1
Celestar Master Collector Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: singapore Age: 22 Posts: 509	Singapore maritime helicopter well...the RSAF is getting a chopper for its new sleath frigate ready by 2008.There are sources that we are considering the EH101, Super Puma, Sea Hawk and some other chopper that i forgot... any suggestions or comments? __________________ ___ ___ ==WINGSSINGAPORE==

05-16-2002, 09:01 PM	#3
Celestar Master Collector Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: singapore Age: 22 Posts: 509	yeah the puma seemed to be to big for a ship __________________ ___ ___ ==WINGSSINGAPORE==

05-16-2002, 09:42 PM	#4
Spectre Insane Collector Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Maryville, TN Age: 37 Posts: 1,421	wait...Isnt the NH90 and EH101 too big as well for ships? sorry for my ignorance...but they seem too big for destroyers and Frigates..mayby for a helicopter carrier? am I wrong? ( the great todd isn't wrong is he? ) HAHAHA __________________ My collection is for sale...please look "You've never lived until you've almost died. For those who fight for it, life has a special meaning the protected will never know."

05-17-2002, 02:06 AM	#5
Celestar Master Collector Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: singapore Age: 22 Posts: 509	hmm....yeah...at least EH101 had a ramp at the rear for cargo and those crappy things __________________ ___ ___ ==WINGSSINGAPORE==

05-17-2002, 09:02 AM	#7
Celestar Master Collector Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: singapore Age: 22 Posts: 509	oh...ok.. actually..i really wish RSAF orders at chopper that is capable of ASW and anti surface capabilities...Seahawk is not effective in ant shipping..only able to use the Pengiun ASM...Cougar..however..is little old and so far i only seen it carrying Exocet missiles. EH101 and NH 90 i am not sure heard of any that carries Harpoon missiles? __________________ ___ ___ ==WINGSSINGAPORE==

05-16-2002, 12:16 PM	#2
justin Insane Collector Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 2,005	I know I risk accusations of bias and batting for the home side here, but I honestly believe the EH101 is the best ship board ASW helicopter in the world, ahead of the SH60. The NH90 will be good too, but it is smaller with a lower take off weight than the EH101 with poorer growth potential and rough weather operating capability. I'd not rule out the Lynx either, the latest version of the Super Lynx is a magnificent machine, if the EH101 is considered too large the Lynx is the one I'd go with. I've never been impressed by the Super Puma (isn't it now the Cougar?) and as far as I know it's never been used as a ship board ASW platform, I'd guess Eurocopter will push either the Dauphin or NH90. Justin

05-17-2002, 06:05 AM	#6
justin Insane Collector Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 2,005	The EH101 is indeed a big chopper, much bigger even than the NH90, but both are designed as shipboard ASW platforms. The Royal Navy will fly the EH101 from the Type 23 frigates and the Type 45 destroyers which have just been ordered. I must admit it looks mighty big to land on those little heli decks The ASW Merlin has no ramp, that is the utility version, they are VERY different beasts. Justin

05-17-2002, 09:13 AM	#8
Spectre Insane Collector Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Maryville, TN Age: 37 Posts: 1,421	Thanks for sett'n me straight Justin __________________ My collection is for sale...please look "You've never lived until you've almost died. For those who fight for it, life has a special meaning the protected will never know."

05-17-2002, 12:50 PM	#9
justin Insane Collector Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 2,005	No probs The SH60 actually has a pretty effestive AsuW capability against smaller vessels like FAC's, the Penguin is not in the first flush of youth but is still a pretty effective missile. The Lynx in RN service carries the Sea Skua, a very effective weapon against surface targets, in a similar class as Penguin. Justin

05-17-2002, 03:21 PM	#10
Spectre Insane Collector Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Maryville, TN Age: 37 Posts: 1,421	I am not a fan of the SHEHAWK (yes she) I do however dig the lynx the HH-60 family is used as a save all platform...and thought it is good as an UH-1 replacement... I am not sure is is powerful enought as a ASW platform...from wha Ihear..they are maxed out on generator usage with that equipment..and design limitations prevent a larger generator type (WOOPS) __________________ My collection is for sale...please look "You've never lived until you've almost died. For those who fight for it, life has a special meaning the protected will never know."

05-18-2002, 08:37 AM	#11
Celestar Master Collector Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: singapore Age: 22 Posts: 509	1.i think there is not really a big need for a anti ship helicopter since the frigate is sleath in the first place! 2.i think SH-60 and Super Lynx have a bid chance of being the ASW chopper for RSAF __________________ ___ ___ ==WINGSSINGAPORE==

05-18-2002, 05:56 PM	#12
justin Insane Collector Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 2,005	Actually the need for an AsuW capability depends on the vessels tasking. For carrier escort groups a helicopter borne ASuW capability is not really essential as the carrier air wing provides a defensive cordon against any surface threats. Similarly if a vessel is operating under a land based air umbrella it's of secondary importance. However for ships with no air cover screen it's essential, as by the time a surface target comes within range of the mother ships defences, the mother ship will itself be a target for the enemy. Many navies would consider losing a small FAC for a frigate or destroyer a good exchange.... Hence the need for the vessels helicopters to scout, act as a defensive screen and destroy targets like FAC's. In the case of larger ships like frigates or destroyers it's unlikely a helicopter could make a successful attack as their AA systems would be too powerful. Weight has always been the bane of ASW chopper designers, a major reason why heavy machines like the Sea King and EH101 are popular in the role, allowing good growth potential and also being able to operate safely in rough weather with a heavy take off weight. Some smaller designs rely on using the mother vessels sensors via data link to reduce the equipment carried on board but this introduces it's own problems too. Justin

05-19-2002, 08:52 AM	#13
Celestar Master Collector Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: singapore Age: 22 Posts: 509	but i think the problem is that the chopper might give away the frigate's stealth position __________________ ___ ___ ==WINGSSINGAPORE==

05-19-2002, 01:57 PM	#14
justin Insane Collector Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 2,005	Stealth is not the magic that people like to pretend on warships. Stealth is a relative term, and in the case of warships is more a reduction in radar signature than a invisibility cloak. I work on offshore semi sub oil drilling rigs, and our rig radar has picked up the Israeli stealth corvettes and USN Arleigh Burke class destroyers despite the fact that both designs paid a lot of attention to reducing the radar signature. Justin

05-19-2002, 04:25 PM	#15
Spectre Insane Collector Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Maryville, TN Age: 37 Posts: 1,421	Stealthy is differient then stealth __________________ My collection is for sale...please look "You've never lived until you've almost died. For those who fight for it, life has a special meaning the protected will never know."

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05-20-2002, 05:09 AM	#16
Celestar Master Collector Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: singapore Age: 22 Posts: 509	ok.i see __________________ ___ ___ ==WINGSSINGAPORE==