Dutch help USA dominate the European fighter market

Spectre · 02-19-2002, 05:23 PM

AvWeek: Dutch JSF Deal A Blow To European Fighters

By Douglas Barrie/Aviation Week & Space Technology

19-Feb-2002 11:48 AM U.S. EST

LONDON -- The battle by U.S. defense giant Lockheed Martin to further cordon off its present share of the European fighter market moved closer to reality on Feb. 9 with the Netherlands decision to opt for the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.

The determination was a body blow to Europe's indigenous fighter manufacturers, who had hoped to loosen Lockheed Martin's grip on its present European F-16 customers.

Lockheed Martin has been striving to ensure it can lock in its present F-16 European customer base to the JSF, looking to mirror the collaborative European acquisition of the Fighting Falcon in the 1970s with a JSF equivalent.

Conversely, both Dassault and the Eurofighter consortium had been intensely interested in bolstering the projected developments of their respective fighter offerings on the back of a Dutch order.

European industry officials were unable to hide their bitter disappointment with the majority decision of the Dutch cabinet, with sources from both the Rafale and Eurofighter camps expressing frustration at the outcome.

The cabinet decision to participate in the JSF was announced by Dutch Prime Minister Wim Kok. While not actually a formal commitment to purchase the aircraft, it is in effect a de facto decision to purchase some 85 of the type to replace its F-16s in the early part of the next decade. A budget allocation of 5.5 billion euros (US$4.84 billion) has been set aside beginning in 2010 to fund the procurement.

"The cabinet thought the JSF offered the best capability, as well as providing the lowest life-cycle costs," a spokesman for the Dutch defense minister said. He added the promise of significant industrial participation, through Stork and Phillips, was also appealing.

The majority cabinet decision has yet to be approved by Parliament, a process which may culminate in a vote on Apr. 11.

Throughout the JSF competition with Boeing, Lockheed Martin had kept a wary eye on the four original European F-16 operators, called the European Participating Air Forces, to ensure that they remained within its orbit as each looked to future fighter requirements.

The Netherlands is the first, and likely most decisive, choice. Two of its other three partners in EPAF, Denmark and Norway, also face a fighter choice within the next few months, and could yet jointly sign up for the JSF. The fourth country is Belgium, which intends to replace its F-16s around 2015.

European industry officials admitted to Aviation Week & Space Technology the Dutch move ramps up the pressure on Denmark and Norway to opt for the F-35, with the attraction of potentially forging a further iteration of EPAF, this time built around the JSF, rather than the F-16.

Lockheed Martin officials confirmed that establishing the JSF-equivalent of EPAF was attractive. One of the sources pointed out that such a group could include European nations outside the original four F-16 operators.

Danish defense sources suggested a decision on whether to commit to the System Demonstration and Development (SDD) phase is likely before the end of the first quarter of 2002. However, one source added, the choice would probably need cross-party approval, and as such would inevitably be "complicated."

Norway, having parked a fighter competition in a holding pattern for over two years, is now moving toward a recommendation by the end of the second quarter. The Defense Ministry is expected to put forward a replacement strategy for its F-16 fleet during June 2002. It may eventually move to order up to 60 aircraft to replace its F-16s.

IN ITS PREVIOUS SELECTION process, Norway had reduced its field of contenders to derivatives of the F-16 and the Eurofighter. However, the competition has once again been thrown open, with JSF now a strong candidate.

"Lockheed Martin has been clever. It saw the importance of the Dutch decision, identifying it as critical. You can now expect to see them move in concert to reinvent EPAF," one European fighter industry official said.

Rafale manufacturer Dassault had been offering Dutch industry participation in the development of an improved derivative of the aircraft. The proposed variant on offer featured a radar using an active, rather than passive, electronically scanned antenna, in which Dutch industry would have participated.

Similarly, the Eurofighter consortium proposed a tranche-three variant of its aircraft. This version is due to begin delivery to the partner nations--Britain, Germany, Italy and Spain--beyond 2010. However, there is sign of discomfort within Eurofighter industry players over the "softness" of national requirements for the tranche-three aircraft.

ONE EUROFIGHTER OFFICIAL said, "We are going to have to go and fight for tranche three, but this isn't necessarily bad."

Discussion as to the tranche-three derivative of the Eurofighter is now underway among the partner nations.

The Dutch decision underscores many of the dilemmas European states face as they attempt to square the circle of improving defense capability and interoperability with the desire to support European defense aerospace industrial aspirations.

While the JSF will clearly provide the Netherlands with a combat aircraft a generation beyond either the Rafale or Eurofighter and smooth interoperability with U.S. forces, it can but be seen in a negative light for Europe's fighter manufacturers.

DeltaFlot · 02-20-2002, 01:18 AM

I am glad to see not all the europeans are not going to a europe only policy on their aircraft. I know european aircraft are good, but the F-35 will be great. That and more jobs for lockheed, and just when I'll be getting out of the Navy.

02-24-2002, 04:56 PM

i hink its not good for there market

justin · 04-06-2002, 07:00 AM

I think it's worth remembering that the two products are very different aircraft, and that many countries have a requirement more closely met by one or the other. The JSF will be a great machine I think, but in terms of air to air combat it does not yet promise to match the EF2000, while the Ef2000 is a more expensive machine. The RAF is buying both the JSF and EF2000, the JSF for tactical recon/strike to replace the Harrier and the FAA will fly it as a lightweight multi-role fighter off carriers, while the EF2000 will be used for air superiority and deeper penetration missions. Personally I think the JSF is much better suited for most nations, I'd say for most countries the JSF will be the ideal machine, and I'd say the JAS39 is nearer the JSF in concept, another superb machine.

Justin

Spectre · 04-06-2002, 10:12 AM

the FAA will fly it?

an honest mistake I am sure

justin · 04-07-2002, 07:07 AM

FAA=fleet air arm, the air wing of the Royal Navy, the British JSF order s to replace the current RAF/FAA joint Harrier force. Since the Sea Harrier F/A2 is to be retired (great call those cretins in the MoD

) it means the JSF will replace the Harrier GR7/9. This is interesting as the requirements are very different, will the UK integrate the Meteor BVRAAM to their JSF force? Will all their JSF's have a multi-mode radar or will there be two sub series, a optimised close air suport and tactical recon/strike fighter and a lightweight multi-role fighter?

Justin

Spectre · 04-07-2002, 03:54 PM

my bad

it will be sad to see the Harriers go....

fladder · 03-15-2004, 05:09 PM

The dutch look further, if they bought the eurofighter they also had to change there tanker planes from boom to hose... and the eurofighter is to expensive....

02-19-2002, 05:23 PM	#1
Spectre Insane Collector Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Maryville, TN Age: 37 Posts: 1,421	Dutch help USA dominate the European fighter market AvWeek: Dutch JSF Deal A Blow To European Fighters By Douglas Barrie/Aviation Week & Space Technology 19-Feb-2002 11:48 AM U.S. EST LONDON -- The battle by U.S. defense giant Lockheed Martin to further cordon off its present share of the European fighter market moved closer to reality on Feb. 9 with the Netherlands decision to opt for the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. The determination was a body blow to Europe's indigenous fighter manufacturers, who had hoped to loosen Lockheed Martin's grip on its present European F-16 customers. Lockheed Martin has been striving to ensure it can lock in its present F-16 European customer base to the JSF, looking to mirror the collaborative European acquisition of the Fighting Falcon in the 1970s with a JSF equivalent. Conversely, both Dassault and the Eurofighter consortium had been intensely interested in bolstering the projected developments of their respective fighter offerings on the back of a Dutch order. European industry officials were unable to hide their bitter disappointment with the majority decision of the Dutch cabinet, with sources from both the Rafale and Eurofighter camps expressing frustration at the outcome. The cabinet decision to participate in the JSF was announced by Dutch Prime Minister Wim Kok. While not actually a formal commitment to purchase the aircraft, it is in effect a de facto decision to purchase some 85 of the type to replace its F-16s in the early part of the next decade. A budget allocation of 5.5 billion euros (US$4.84 billion) has been set aside beginning in 2010 to fund the procurement. "The cabinet thought the JSF offered the best capability, as well as providing the lowest life-cycle costs," a spokesman for the Dutch defense minister said. He added the promise of significant industrial participation, through Stork and Phillips, was also appealing. The majority cabinet decision has yet to be approved by Parliament, a process which may culminate in a vote on Apr. 11. Throughout the JSF competition with Boeing, Lockheed Martin had kept a wary eye on the four original European F-16 operators, called the European Participating Air Forces, to ensure that they remained within its orbit as each looked to future fighter requirements. The Netherlands is the first, and likely most decisive, choice. Two of its other three partners in EPAF, Denmark and Norway, also face a fighter choice within the next few months, and could yet jointly sign up for the JSF. The fourth country is Belgium, which intends to replace its F-16s around 2015. European industry officials admitted to Aviation Week & Space Technology the Dutch move ramps up the pressure on Denmark and Norway to opt for the F-35, with the attraction of potentially forging a further iteration of EPAF, this time built around the JSF, rather than the F-16. Lockheed Martin officials confirmed that establishing the JSF-equivalent of EPAF was attractive. One of the sources pointed out that such a group could include European nations outside the original four F-16 operators. Danish defense sources suggested a decision on whether to commit to the System Demonstration and Development (SDD) phase is likely before the end of the first quarter of 2002. However, one source added, the choice would probably need cross-party approval, and as such would inevitably be "complicated." Norway, having parked a fighter competition in a holding pattern for over two years, is now moving toward a recommendation by the end of the second quarter. The Defense Ministry is expected to put forward a replacement strategy for its F-16 fleet during June 2002. It may eventually move to order up to 60 aircraft to replace its F-16s. IN ITS PREVIOUS SELECTION process, Norway had reduced its field of contenders to derivatives of the F-16 and the Eurofighter. However, the competition has once again been thrown open, with JSF now a strong candidate. "Lockheed Martin has been clever. It saw the importance of the Dutch decision, identifying it as critical. You can now expect to see them move in concert to reinvent EPAF," one European fighter industry official said. Rafale manufacturer Dassault had been offering Dutch industry participation in the development of an improved derivative of the aircraft. The proposed variant on offer featured a radar using an active, rather than passive, electronically scanned antenna, in which Dutch industry would have participated. Similarly, the Eurofighter consortium proposed a tranche-three variant of its aircraft. This version is due to begin delivery to the partner nations--Britain, Germany, Italy and Spain--beyond 2010. However, there is sign of discomfort within Eurofighter industry players over the "softness" of national requirements for the tranche-three aircraft. ONE EUROFIGHTER OFFICIAL said, "We are going to have to go and fight for tranche three, but this isn't necessarily bad." Discussion as to the tranche-three derivative of the Eurofighter is now underway among the partner nations. The Dutch decision underscores many of the dilemmas European states face as they attempt to square the circle of improving defense capability and interoperability with the desire to support European defense aerospace industrial aspirations. While the JSF will clearly provide the Netherlands with a combat aircraft a generation beyond either the Rafale or Eurofighter and smooth interoperability with U.S. forces, it can but be seen in a negative light for Europe's fighter manufacturers. __________________ My collection is for sale...please look "You've never lived until you've almost died. For those who fight for it, life has a special meaning the protected will never know."

02-20-2002, 01:18 AM	#2
DeltaFlot The Patriot Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Laurel, MD Age: 37 Posts: 3,228	I am glad to see not all the europeans are not going to a europe only policy on their aircraft. I know european aircraft are good, but the F-35 will be great. That and more jobs for lockheed, and just when I'll be getting out of the Navy. __________________ Febuary 15, 1898 December 7, 1941 June 8, 1967 September 11, 2001 Never Forget, Never Forgive If you kick the Tiger in the arse, you better be able to deal with the Tiger's teeth.

04-06-2002, 10:12 AM	#5
Spectre Insane Collector Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Maryville, TN Age: 37 Posts: 1,421	the FAA will fly it? an honest mistake I am sure __________________ My collection is for sale...please look "You've never lived until you've almost died. For those who fight for it, life has a special meaning the protected will never know."

04-07-2002, 03:54 PM	#7
Spectre Insane Collector Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Maryville, TN Age: 37 Posts: 1,421	my bad it will be sad to see the Harriers go.... __________________ My collection is for sale...please look "You've never lived until you've almost died. For those who fight for it, life has a special meaning the protected will never know."

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02-24-2002, 04:56 PM	#3
Romania is #1 Guest Posts: n/a	i hink its not good for there market

04-06-2002, 07:00 AM	#4
justin Insane Collector Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 2,005	I think it's worth remembering that the two products are very different aircraft, and that many countries have a requirement more closely met by one or the other. The JSF will be a great machine I think, but in terms of air to air combat it does not yet promise to match the EF2000, while the Ef2000 is a more expensive machine. The RAF is buying both the JSF and EF2000, the JSF for tactical recon/strike to replace the Harrier and the FAA will fly it as a lightweight multi-role fighter off carriers, while the EF2000 will be used for air superiority and deeper penetration missions. Personally I think the JSF is much better suited for most nations, I'd say for most countries the JSF will be the ideal machine, and I'd say the JAS39 is nearer the JSF in concept, another superb machine. Justin

04-07-2002, 07:07 AM	#6
justin Insane Collector Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 2,005	FAA=fleet air arm, the air wing of the Royal Navy, the British JSF order s to replace the current RAF/FAA joint Harrier force. Since the Sea Harrier F/A2 is to be retired (great call those cretins in the MoD ) it means the JSF will replace the Harrier GR7/9. This is interesting as the requirements are very different, will the UK integrate the Meteor BVRAAM to their JSF force? Will all their JSF's have a multi-mode radar or will there be two sub series, a optimised close air suport and tactical recon/strike fighter and a lightweight multi-role fighter? Justin

03-15-2004, 05:09 PM	#8
fladder Junior Collector Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Near Eindhoven, NL Age: 45 Posts: 6	The dutch look further, if they bought the eurofighter they also had to change there tanker planes from boom to hose... and the eurofighter is to expensive....