Sentinel Chicken

One of the most overlooked assets of the US military are the aircraft that serve as command/control assets- these are finding new roles today as "force-mulitpliers" in the techno-whiz world of information batte management. Here's some questions to separate the men from the boys when it comes to military aviation:

The first airborne early warning radar was fitted to what aircraft?

What was the "Willy Fudd"?

The first dedicated airborne command posts were adaptations of what aircraft and what was the mission codename for these aircraft?

What does TACAMO stand for and what are the 2 aircraft to have served in that role?

What were the other 2 aircraft studied for the AWACS role that eventually went to a 707-320 airframe?

What is the official mission code name for the E-4 NEACP (National Emergency Airborne Command Post) aircraft?

What are "Slicks" and "Domes"?

What were the two programs merged in 1982 that gave rise to the JSTARS aircraft?

__________________
Piss on noise abatement!

RC135U

The first airborne early warning radar was fitted to what aircraft?

I had thought that the AD-3W variant of the Skyraider would have
been the first (circa 1951), but I found a reference that indicates
the Navy used 23 ex-AAF B-17G's designated PB-1W in the AEW
role in the late 40's. Also, four B-29's were converted (as P2B-1S)
and finally the famous Connie appeared in June 1949 initially with
a PO-1W designation, later the WV-2 (and USAF RC-121C).

What was the "Willy Fudd"?

The AEW version of the S-2. Initially the WF-2 it was later desig-
nated the E-1B Tracer.

The first dedicated airborne command posts were adaptations of what aircraft and what was the mission codename for these aircraft?

The "Looking Glass" command posts were based on the KC-135A
airframe.


What were the other 2 aircraft studied for the AWACS role that eventually went to a 707-320 airframe?

The DC-8 and the Nimrod?

(What, no RIVETJOINT questions?)

AlphaSigOU

All right, lemme give it a try...

The first airborne early warning radar was fitted to what aircraft?

Dunno.

What was the "Willy Fudd"?

The Grumman WF-2, based on the S2F ('Stoof').

The first dedicated airborne command posts were adaptations of what aircraft and what was the mission codename for these aircraft?

Dunno.

What does TACAMO stand for and what are the 2 aircraft to have served in that role?

TAke Charge And Move Out. EC-130, then the E-6.

What were the other 2 aircraft studied for the AWACS role that eventually went to a 707-320 airframe?

Dunno.

What is the official mission code name for the E-4 NEACP (National Emergency Airborne Command Post) aircraft?

'Nigh****ch'. NEACP (pronounced 'Kneecap') is now the NAOC (National Airborne Operations Center.)

What are "Slicks" and "Domes"?

Slicks are generally trainer aircraft versions of AWACS and other airborne command post aircraft, 'Domes' are AWACS aircraft.

What were the two programs merged in 1982 that gave rise to the JSTARS aircraft?

Dunno.

__________________
Chuck Corway (AlphaSigOU)

Causa latet vis est notissima -- the cause is hidden, the results are well known.

James Bond: "I'll take the full odds on the ten, two hundred on the hard way, the limit on all the numbers, two hundred and fifty on the eleven, thank you very much."

Plenty O'Toole: "Hey! You've played this game before!"

James Bond: "Just once."

REMEMBER THE ALAMO!!! REMEMBER PEARL HARBOR!!! REMEMBER SEPTEMBER 11!!!!

Sentinel Chicken

You two hosers are darn good. (welcome RC135U!) Here are the answers:

The first AEW radar was fitted to the TBM Avenger in late 1944 under Project Cadillac. The search radar routinely demonstrated detection ranges 2-6X greater than shipboard radars.

The "Willy Fudd" was the WF-1 which after 1962 was redesignated the E-1B Tracer. It was an AEW version of the S-2 Tracer ASW bird (prior to 1962 it was designated S2F, hence the nickname Chuck has pointed out, "Stoof").

The first dedicated airborne command posts were variants of the KC-135 series and came to be known as Looking Glass, which was SAC's 24 hour airborne alert of these jets. If the need arose and a nuclear attack had incapacitated the national command leadership, it was possible for the Looking Glass aircraft to launch our ICBMs.

TACAMO stands for TAke Charge And Move Out and is the name for the US Navy's communications aircraft that relay orders to the SSBN fleet. Now that the Looking Glass aircraft have been retired, the TACAMO aircraft also carry out the ACP role for our ICBMs. The first aircraft to serve as a TACAMO was the EC-130G/Q, now it's the Boeing E-6 Mercury.

The AWACS system was also studied for the DC-8 and the C-141 Starlifter, but the Boeing 707-320 won out.

The official mission codename for the E-4 NEACPs is Night Watch.

The US Customs Service operates a small fleet of P-3s and those Orions equipped with the AEW radar of the E-2 Hawkeye are called "Domes" and the Orions that lack the radar are called "Slicks".

Prior to JSTARS, there were two systems being developed. The US Army was working in a helo-borne system called SOTAS (Stand-Off Target Acquistion System) that was to be mounted on the UH-60 Blackhawk. The Air Force was working on a system to be mounted on the U-2R/TR-1 called PLSS (Precision Location Strike System). Both systems were designed to use synthetic aperture radar to locate and acquire ground targets and in 1982 the DoD asked both the Army and Air Force to collaborate and Joint-STARS is the result.


Okay on the same topic area, here are some more questions for all you wingheads out there:

35 of this aircraft were modified by SAC in 1959 with extensive communications equipment to act as airborne relays from ground command centers to the ICBM fields and bomber bases in times of war...what aircraft was it?

What is the ORIGIN of the name TACAMO?

USAF E-3 AWACS are being upgraded and are now sporting funny little cheek fairings and chin fairings. What are they for?

What is the USAF system/aircraft for the detection, analysis, and jamming of enemy communications?

When the new Boeing E-6 TACAMO aircraft entered service, it was called the E-6 Hermes. Now the Navy calls them the E-6 Mercury. Got a guess on why the name got changed?

Let's see who can kick Chuck's a s s on this set, as he's the DA-MAN to beat!

__________________
Piss on noise abatement!

AlphaSigOU

You got some tough ones there, Dr. Chicken! But I'm game to give it a try... here goes:

35 of this aircraft were modified by SAC in 1959 with extensive communications equipment to act as airborne relays from ground command centers to the ICBM fields and bomber bases in times of war...what aircraft was it?

The 'original' KC-135R (this was well before the 'R' designation identified reengined KC-135s).

What is the ORIGIN of the name TACAMO?

OK, now I knew what TACAMO stood for, now you want to know how it got its name?!? My silly wild a** guess: the Navy wanted a survivable system that could communicate to the 'boomers' when the sh*t hit the fan, to 'take charge' of the situation and 'move out at a moment's notice.

USAF E-3 AWACS are being upgraded and are now sporting funny little cheek fairings and chin fairings. What are they for?

My silly wild a** guess again: SLAR (side-looking airborne radar) pods on the fuselage sides, and possibly LLLTV (low-light-level TV) on the chin fairings just like the BUFFS.

What is the USAF system/aircraft for the detection, analysis, and jamming of enemy communications?

Dunno. I'm guessing 'Cobra Ball'.

When the new Boeing E-6 TACAMO aircraft entered service, it was called the E-6 Hermes. Now the Navy calls them the E-6 Mercury. Got a guess on why the name got changed?

Hermes and Mercury are one and the same mythological god; the 'messenger of the gods'. Hermes being the Greek name, and Mercury the Roman name. Wouldn't be surprised if they changed the name so as not to get confused with the similar-named disease of herpes... my silly wild-a**ed contribution to this tale

__________________
Chuck Corway (AlphaSigOU)

Causa latet vis est notissima -- the cause is hidden, the results are well known.

James Bond: "I'll take the full odds on the ten, two hundred on the hard way, the limit on all the numbers, two hundred and fifty on the eleven, thank you very much."

Plenty O'Toole: "Hey! You've played this game before!"

James Bond: "Just once."

REMEMBER THE ALAMO!!! REMEMBER PEARL HARBOR!!! REMEMBER SEPTEMBER 11!!!!

Stanman

Chicken,

I am as usual waaaay out of my league here but wasn't the 767 airframe considered for the AWACS role as opposed to the 707-320 but the latter was chose due to cost? Later I guess the 767 frame was considered and chosen for the JASDF as our Dragon models would indicate.

No worries here. Chuck is still the one to beat.

Oh almost forgot my other question. I've read that the Air Force initially ordered 3 E-4A's and 1 E-4B. The former E-4A's were modified to E-4B standard for a total of now 4. However I always thought there were only two basically 747's available for the air Force One role. Are there really four? Thanks in advance.

Nice change although the guess the airfield is still fun.

AlphaSigOU

The 747-2G4Bs (designated VC-25A) ordered by the Air Force for the new Presidential air transport are similar but entirely different aircraft. Two aircraft were built: 82-8000 and 92-9000, the numbering following tradition ever since 62-6000 and 72-7000 were dedicated specifically as Presidential aircraft.

The four E-4Bs (three were delivered as A models with military JT9Ds, and later reengined with the military version of the CF6 when they went through their B model upgrade) are much more spartan than their Air Force One counterpart. Generally, one usually 'shadows' Air Force One and lands at a nearby airport or Air Force Base, providing a relay to the military communications system. One E-4B is always on strip alert at Andrews AFB for use by the President. The other E-4Bs are stationed at Offutt AFB and at other dispersal bases for survivability.

Hope this helps.

__________________
Chuck Corway (AlphaSigOU)

Causa latet vis est notissima -- the cause is hidden, the results are well known.

James Bond: "I'll take the full odds on the ten, two hundred on the hard way, the limit on all the numbers, two hundred and fifty on the eleven, thank you very much."

Plenty O'Toole: "Hey! You've played this game before!"

James Bond: "Just once."

REMEMBER THE ALAMO!!! REMEMBER PEARL HARBOR!!! REMEMBER SEPTEMBER 11!!!!

RC135U

[quote]Originally posted by Sentinel Chicken
You two hosers are darn good. (welcome RC135U)

Thanks, Chicken! I'll take a stab at some of the other questions.

Okay on the same topic area, here are some more questions for all you wingheads out there

35 of this aircraft were modified by SAC in 1959 with extensive communications equipment to act as airborne relays from ground command centers to the ICBM fields and bomber bases in times of war...what aircraft was it?

EB-47L? Chuck says KC-135R (the first version) but that was
actually a recon version predating the RC-135 models (and not
to be confused with the present-day reengined KC-135R's).


USAF E-3 AWACS are being upgraded and are now sporting funny little cheek fairings and chin fairings. What are they for?

The AWACS Block 30/35 Modification Program. The bulges relate
to the four enhancements being installed:
- ESM (Electronic Support Measures)
- JTIDS (Joint Tactical Information Distribution System)
- GPS
- Additional computer processing power


What is the USAF system/aircraft for the detection, analysis, and jamming of enemy communications?

Chuck's guess of Cobra Ball is interesting, but the Ball's mission
(as an RC-135S) is more directed at missile/warhead tracking,
as seen off Kamchatka for years, and later hunting SCUDs in the
Gulf War. From personal experience, the other RC-135 models
can certainly detect and analyze all kinds of SIGINT and COMINT,
but the Rivet Joint and Combat Sent don't get into the jamming
stuff. I'm going to venture that with the retirement of the EF-111
we're talking about the EA-6B Prowler. I've also heard rumors
of an EB-52 down the road - I'll bet that could do some real jam-
ing!




Let's see who can kick Chuck's a s s on this set, as he's the DA-MAN to beat! [/QUOTE

__________________
In God we trust.
All others we monitor.

Sentinel Chicken

You boys are starting to freak me out. At least I know I'm not the only military aviation dork around here. Have a cold Shiner on me boys.

RC155U is DA-MAN with the correct answer on the first question!The EB-47L was a modification of the B-47 Stratojet to fulfill the communications relay role for SAC. Until the Looking Glass mission was in full swing, the little-known EB-47L stood alert with SAC's bombers in case the sh*t hit the fan. That was a killer question!

The acronym TACAMO came about after Collins Radio, the company that designed the original VLF communications system, had given their initial presentation to the US Navy in 1962. After their presentation to the admirals, the Navy was so impressed the team was awarded the contract on the spot and told to "Take charge and move out!" The engineers started calling the project TACAMO and the name stuck.

Those funny bulges the E-3 is now sporting are part of the Block 30/35 system improvements which add an ELINT/ESM system called "Quick Look".

The USAF system/aircraft for the detection, analysis, and jamming of enemy communications is called Compass Call and the aircraft is the EC-130H based at Davis-Monthan AFB. They can be identified from the wire antenna array that surrounds the tailplane.

And as to why the E-6 Hermes was changed to the E-6 Mercury, believe it or not, Chuck, you're correct! The first crews referred to the TACAMO birds as the E-6 Herpes much to the dismay of the Navy brass. As an interesting side note, when the Mercurys first entered service, the rear third of the cabin was empty, and crews would set up shuffleboards to pass the time in this space. With the retirement of the Looking Glass aircraft, the Mercury is now assuming that role as well and the shuffleboard courts are now battlestaff consoles!

Okay I gots to find me some harder questions for you ten-hut wingheads out there in DACland.

__________________
Piss on noise abatement!

RC135U

Chicken,

Where are you coming up with these questions? You know your
stuff, and I've been enjoying getting stumped on some of them.
Don't go snooping around the plant out in Greenville where the
RC-135 fleet gets its mods, ya hear?

__________________
In God we trust.
All others we monitor.

Sentinel Chicken

Paul, I just absolutely love military aviation, that's all. I have aviation related stuff practically in every room in the house. My wife has gone past getting annoyed by all of it, she finds it entertaining and believe it or not she's learning a few things here and there.

World Air Power Journal and it's sister publication, Wings of Fame, are some of the finest in military aviation and they're advertisement free. Unfortunately, they've ended publication last year and the replacement, International Air Power Review, is a stunning work and worthy replacement.

Okay, Paul, Chuck and the rest of you ten-hut wingheads out there, here's some questions regarding the Cobra Ball and Cobra Eye recon platforms:

Who can tell me what the first dedicated ELINT aircraft that was designed to collect telemetry data from Soviet ICBM tests? And as a bonus, tell me what this aircraft's mission codename was!

In the world of the RC-135s, who is "Nancy Rae" and how was she related to "Wanda Belle"? As a bonus here, tell me what "Wanda Belle" ended up being named!

True or false, several RC-135 variants were equipped with SLAR?

What are "SLEBs"?

What is the nickname RC-135 crews gave to Shemya AB in reference to its general appearance?

What is a "gronk" to RC-135 crews?

__________________
Piss on noise abatement!

RC135U

OK Chicken,

I think I can cover a couple of those items.

1. The first dedicated ELINT a/c to track the Evil Empire's ICBM's
were the "Tell Two" program EB-47E(TT) aircraft.

2. "Nancy Rae" was the first successor to the EB-47E(TT) birds
based on the KC-135 airframe. She was designated a JKC-
135 operated by AF Systems Command (AFSC) out of Shemya
AFB (aka "The Rock" - the same nickname as given to Guam).
She became "Wanda Belle" when transferred to SAC to be-
come an RC-135S. Before her final name of "scrap"after her
crash on Shemya she was known as "Rivet Ball".

Shemya was a bad place to operate out of and it cost SAC
several RC-135's over the years - lousy weather. I flew TDY
missions out of Eielson AFB near Fairbanks, the home base
for the Cobra Ball crews. "The Rock" was their forward op-
erating base - almost a five hour flight I believe. Glad that
I never had to go out there! Kadena, Offutt, Eielson, Milden-
hall - yes. "The Rock" - NO!

3. SLAR in the cheeks of the RC-135's has been a myth.

As for "SLEB" and "gronk" I'm afraid you've got me at a loss...

__________________
In God we trust.
All others we monitor.

Sentinel Chicken

Good show, there, Paul!

The EB-47E (TT) was the first telemetry intelligence dedicated platform the USAF had. It was known as the "Tell Two" platform and if I'm not mistaken, the mission specialists (called "Ravens") worked out of a modified bomb bay.

"Nancy Rae" was the first TELINT equipped KC-135, and as Paul pointed out, she was initially used by AFSC and when transferred to SAC, she was renamed "Wanda Belle". The women's names were ditched later by SAC and replaced by "Rivet (blank)" where the blank was the specific aircraft/mission. As a result, Wanda Belle became known as Rivet Ball.

Shemya AB in the Aleutians is known as "The Rock" by crews of the 6th Strategic Reconaissance Wing. The 6th SRW was based at Eielson AFB outside of Fairbanks and would deploy to The Rock as a forward operating location.

And yes, the much often written SLAR equpment in the cheek fairings of the Rivet Joints is a myth. There never has been any SLAR equipment in those fairings despite multiple references to the fact in many magazines and books. From what I understand, the cheek fairings contain interferometry equipment for ELINT.

BUT, one and only one RC-135 had a SLAR installed.....who can tell me that one?

And let's see if anyone else can tell me what a "gronk" and a "SLEB" is. Chuck, are you awake? Paul is seriously trouncing all over you on this set!

__________________
Piss on noise abatement!

RC135U

The only RC-135 that carried a radar like a SLAR was the unfort-
unate "Lisa Ann", the one-off RC-135E. She was lost somewhere
over the Bering Sea while coming home from "the Rock" to Eielson
AFB. I flew with a well-seasoned senior NCO who had flown on
Lisa Ann and had lost good friends when she disappeared. The
scuttlebutt was that Boeing had refused to sign off on the struc-
tural integrity of the airframe when the USAF came up with that
super radar that could see a 1ft object from several hundred
miles away. I think she was operational for only about two or
three years. BTW, I think the radar was a phased array system.


I'm still waiting to hear about SLEB and gronks!

__________________
In God we trust.
All others we monitor.

Sentinel Chicken

Paul, that's right. "Lisa Ann" was the only RC-135 fitted with the SLAR and it had a huge cutout on the right forward fuselage for the radar array. The radar was so powerful that there was an inch thick lead shield to protect the crew compartments fore and aft. Unfortunately, there was no way to cross from the cockpit to the toilets in the aft compartment where the ravens worked. Not loved by the flight crews, as you might imagine!

"Lisa Ann" later was renamed Rivet Amber and could be identified by the heat exchanger/Allison jet pods below the wing roots. The jet engine was to generate the power the SLAR required. The cover story for Rivet Amber was the pods were for atmospheric sampling and weather studies.

Presumably she was lost due to structural failure due to the modifications to accomodate the cutout for the array. I wish I had a flatbed scanner, I have a pic of Rivet Amber that shows just how extensive that array cutout is. It's larger than the upper deck cargo door on the opposite side.

I'm going to have to find a new area of military aviation trivia for guys!

SLEBs and gronks? Unless Chuck or anyone else can figure it out, the answer to what those are will be posted later tonight!

__________________
Piss on noise abatement!

RC135U

Chicken,

I broke down (er...cheated) and tried a Google search of military
acronyms. Couldn't find SLEB anywhere, and the best I could
come up with for "gronk" was that it was slang for equipment
malfunction.

__________________
In God we trust.
All others we monitor.

Sentinel Chicken

Okay here y'all go:

A "gronk" to RC-135 crews is what they call the alert klaxon that initiates a mission to get the Cobra Ball airborne and on its way to collect TELINT. Sometimes they'll call such missions "gronk" missions.

SLEBs is what the RC-135 flight crews call the mission technicians (or ravens) that sit in the back and operate the TELINT equipment. SLEB stands for Self-Loading Excess Baggage

__________________
Piss on noise abatement!

Celestar

ok...next question

__________________
___ ___
==WINGSSINGAPORE==

Sentinel Chicken

I found a pic of Rivet Amber. The tan area on the right forward fuselage is where the SLAR array was located. As you might imagine, that's a significant chunk of fuselage structure that's been modified to accomodate the antennna.

__________________
Piss on noise abatement!

Celestar

uh huh.....so?

__________________
___ ___
==WINGSSINGAPORE==

RC135U

It's just that this aircraft had a very special radar installed, and
was one-of-a-kind. The radome is reputed to have compromised
the fuselage structural integrity - this is the RC-135E "Lisa Ann"
mentioned above. Good men were lost when she disappeared
without a trace 30 years ago.

__________________
In God we trust.
All others we monitor.