overweight people=1 seat. agree or disagree

Gargle Jus · 05-30-2008, 08:24 AM

I heard on radio this morning airlines are now forbidden to charge overweight people for more than one seat. I disagree with this. They charge people for oversized baggage, why not oversized bodies? Sitting beside an overweight person can be slightly less than enjoyable for fellow passengers if they are spilling into your seat. If they take up 2 seats they should have to pay for them. However there is also the argument that it's not their fault if they are overweight. In MOST cases, this is a bullcrap. Unless you have a doctor note or something that entitles you to 2 seats maybe you should have to pay the same fare, but otherwise i think you should have to pay extra. What do you guys think?

B-16707 · 05-30-2008, 12:41 PM

i work in the nutrition field and many are claiming obesity to be a "disease" and something that one cant help....or the cure hasnt been found yet.

given that....

i still wouldnt like to sit next to a muffin topper....especially one that spills over the arm rests. sorry if i offended anyone but you people need to get up, get out and start exercising and watch your diet.

Horizon CRJ700 · 05-30-2008, 12:43 PM

Unless there are extenuating circumstances, as to why they are MORBIDLY OBESE. I am talking completely disabled, or have extremely bad diabetes, people should be charged for the two seats that it is nexcessary for them to occupy.

Being obese is a choice, there may be some genetic traits involved, but in the end, you make the choice to not get off the couch and do something.

DLmd11 · 05-30-2008, 02:39 PM

As many as they need so they don't spill over into my seat.

Not being insensitive but we are the heaviest, out of shape and unhealthy country in the world.

Mystère · 05-30-2008, 02:50 PM

I was wondering, what if almost everyone onboard was obese ?... Just a thought...

B773ER · 05-30-2008, 03:01 PM

After having the experience of sitting next to an obese person on a Delta flight from Richmond to Atlanta back in 1996, I agree. Obese people need to be charged for two seats. The man who sat next to me was so large, he needed a seat belt extender and was spilling over into my seat. I feel I'm entitled to have the ENTIRE seat I paid for - not a portion of it - during the flight.

HTF200 · 05-30-2008, 03:18 PM

there is the business class option

B-16707 · 05-30-2008, 04:12 PM

i think most people (including myself) would just suck it up and sit next to the muffin topper. i think most people are non confrontational. i wouldnt speak up wanting to change seats if there was a fatso next to me....im flying out tonight....i hope this doesnt happen to me.

L-1011-Heavy · 05-30-2008, 04:24 PM

I'm A Bit Heavy Myself, Bit Not Obese To The Point I Spill Over To The Next Seat.
If I Did Become That Excessive I Expect To Pay For 2 Seats.
Afterall Someone ELSE Paid For That Seat & I Encroach On To Their Space Then I Should Pay More & The Other Occupant Should Pay Less.
But We Don't Live In A Perfect World Where Everything Is Chopped Up Into Pieces Of Pie.
One SHOULDN'T Encroach On Another's Space. It Causes Discomfort That Exacerbates With Time. The Longer The Flight, The Greater The Discomfort.
So Yes Customers Of Size That Spill Into Another's Space Should Pay Extra, But Get 2 Seats.
That Way The Fat Guy Plus Others Sitting Adjacent Won't Feel Any Discomfort.

That Aside Heavier Passengers Cost The Airlines More. A Heavy Passenger Should Pay Extra Freight Charges Too! (Just Kidding! Paying For 2 Seats Already Does That)

Southwest Has Been Very Good About The Whole Thing. They Only Charge 50% For The Second Seat & They Actually Walk With The Passenger To See If They Fit Within The Armrests. Talk About SERVICE!!!
Trouble Is Most Customers Of Size Think It's Cool To Get A Seat Sale For 200 Bucks & Barely Squeeze In Between The Armrests Even If Their Love Handles Spill In To The Next Seat. WRONG!!!! I Wouldn't Do That. (And Southwest Allows It Most Times So Not To Offend The Fat Guy)

Big & Tall Shops Charge A Premium Because Their Customers Require More Material & Often Custom Tailoring Because Of The Real Estate They Have To Cover.
It's Only Fair Airlines Can Charge Extra For Freight & Space.

Gargle Jus · 05-30-2008, 05:00 PM

Quote:

there is the business class option

Quote:

i think most people (including myself) would just suck it up and sit next to the muffin topper. i think most people are non confrontational. i wouldnt speak up wanting to change seats if there was a fatso next to me....im flying out tonight....i hope this doesnt happen to me.

i may be wrong but i think HTF200 meant the obese people should sit in buisness class where the seats are wider.

HTF200 · 05-30-2008, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gargle Jus

i may be wrong but i think HTF200 meant the obese people should sit in buisness class where the seats are wider.

thks Gargle Jus,

in fact to be more precise, if someone is overweight he will take
2 seats in economy class but what about legroom in front ?
probably that person will be squashed between the seat and that's not good for blood circulation to travel in those conditions (myself I am squashed and i am very thin & tall)

The business class offers wider seat more legroom & may cost less than 2 economy class
that is what I meant

and then theres first class

B-16707 · 05-30-2008, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gargle Jus

i may be wrong but i think HTF200 meant the obese people should sit in buisness class where the seats are wider.

and yea my post was not in response to HTF200's. otherwise i would have quoted it

B773ER · 05-30-2008, 05:44 PM

I had thought about first class too, given many of the shorter U.S. routes on smaller aircraft don't have business class. For example, on Virgin America, first class fare is approximately double their economy class fare, so why not go in first class instead of buying two economy class seats? Free food and alcohol. WOOHOO.

.

Gargle Jus · 05-30-2008, 06:51 PM

Quote:

and yea my post was not in response to HTF200's. otherwise i would have quoted it

oh sorry my bad

bok269 · 05-30-2008, 08:23 PM

You use two seats you pay for two seats. Simple as that.

fazeman · 05-30-2008, 09:14 PM

I hear you all on the obese issue. Charging for two seats should be an option for the airlines. Another option would be to stow them in the cargo hold with specially designed seats.

But really, the biggest problem that continues to exist today is jockeying for that coveted piece of real estate known as the center armrest. You can sit next to the skinniest person and still have that level of discomfort for space.

FWA2500 · 05-30-2008, 09:19 PM

i wish the very large woman sitting next to me two weeks ago on DAL760 (LAS-CVG) would have had an extra seat, and there were no empty seats, otherwise i would have asked for a switch....so i was stuck with half a seat between the window and this very large woman who was literally flowing over the arm rest....not comfortable for either of us. large people should pay the extra for another seat or for biz-class (wish larger seats) and then everyone would be happy as noone is crowding each other

oh, and PLEASE do not wear overpowering perfume/aftershave/whatever when you are flying.....but please do shower before hand as it is VERY unpleasant sitting next to someone with overpowering smells.....im not sure if i passed out because i was so tired or from that woman's very strong perfume.

Roarer · 05-31-2008, 12:17 AM

Quite frankly, I'd rather travel business class. Let the obese and/or the Sweaty Bettys' go cattle class. OR, at least have it where there is adequate space for everyone.

I know that there are medical reasons. If you are having steroids whilst having chemo for example, the person generally will balloon in weight because they are always hungry 7 hours a day 24 days a week. Something I never had thankfully.

However, it starts to become a grey area, as some people are just heavy by nature.
If, IF, however, it's just because they like too much cake and it's their own fault, then, yes, charge them extra!

Ironically for being on a forum like this, I don't really have this problem as I only fly when I really have to. I like to watch the countryside passing by instead of boring cloud and distant land below see, even if it takes me several times longer to do. Not because I have a thing about flying or anything, don't get me wrong, I LOVE heights and flying!
Last time I flew was in Nov '06, and even then it was simply because I had to be in 2 places at one as it were

I use flight as a tool when I am in a hurry/ don't have a choice.

Even the first first time I flew for more than about 10 mins was when I was 17 (BA from Glasgow to Zurich via Heathrow), and I loved every minuite of it (getting to ride extensively in the cockpit helped of course!).

The other irony of this is that, I have a problem with my thyroid, meaning I cannot gain any weight. I have been the same weight since I was about 15, so I'm not likely to flounce over into someone else's seat.

Roarer McToothpick - 9 stone.

'Whooo ate all the pies ....'.

gospodin · 05-31-2008, 01:05 AM

Our society is an enabling one. We say, "It's not your fault if you're heavy, it's genetic or a disease." We pat people on the back for mediocrity, we tell people that criminal behavior is not their fault. It's all BS, and we need to stop doing it. Fat people are fat because they eat too much and don't exercise. I don't mean the genuinely ill people who have a metabolic condition or thyroid problems or whatever...the vast majority of fatties are self made. I'm overweight myself, but not to the extend of being morbidly obese...but I put every ounce on myself. If a truly fat person gets advantages like a free seat for their wide load, they will feel entitled, and make no effort to change their habits...why should they? They get accommodated. Extra wide seating in theaters, extra wide toilets at restaurants...even guerneys in ambulances are being widened and reinforced. Just another example of the downward spiral....

dylan · 05-31-2008, 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fazeman

I hear you all on the obese issue. Charging for two seats should be an option for the airlines. Another option would be to stow them in the cargo hold with specially designed seats.

But really, the biggest problem that continues to exist today is jockeying for that coveted piece of real estate known as the center armrest. You can sit next to the skinniest person and still have that level of discomfort for space.

If I get stuck in a middle seat, the armrests are mine. Period. On a Southworst flight from PDX to SLC last week, some a-hole on the aisle seat was using both armrests. I knocked his elbow off and just stared at him. Armrests were mine for the duration. I am NOT someone you want to be sitting next to on a commercial flight. Me being intoxicated usually has something to do with it. WooHoo for Heineken!

A Tupolev · 05-31-2008, 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dylan

If I get stuck in a middle seat, the armrests are mine. Period. On a Southworst flight from PDX to SLC last week, some a-hole on the aisle seat was using both armrests. I knocked his elbow off and just stared at him. Armrests were mine for the duration. I am NOT someone you want to be sitting next to on a commercial flight. Me being intoxicated usually has something to do with it. WooHoo for Heineken!

So you were the obnoxious and intoxicated passenger seating next to me on that SLC flight last week. I'm surprised the FA did't cut you off after the 5th Heineken, especially since you groped her, then blacked out and wet your pants. At least I got my arm rest back when you blacked out.

dboyd001 · 05-31-2008, 09:35 AM

..... Flying isn't what it was a generation or two ago. Look at ads from the 1950s to the early 1960s. People dressed up to take a flight. I guess there's no going back to that. A national talk-radio host usually does a segment on airline horror stories after she takes a flight. I can relate. Other gripes, apart from the fatties are:

People who dress like their going to their back porch to swill a beer (AKA dressed like bums or worse).
Dead breath or overpowering perfume/colonge (mentioned earlier)
The jerk who has to have the window seat, but also has an apparent bladder problem seeming to have to go to the lavatory every ten minutes.
whiney kids
those whiney kids sitting directly behind you kicking the seat
the one who seems to need every barffbag on the plane.
the one who has to talk with you through the entire flight.
that same one above who has to tell you their freakin' boring life story.
that same one who want to know my life story (and I'm not telling).
Having the jerk in front of you recline their chair back so their head is effectively in your lap.
The one who has to comment on the movie even if you're not even watching it.
The one who takes their shoes off and their feet smells like some swamp from a horror movie (or worse).
Sitting next to someone who asks if you're going to eat this or that from your meal.
And last, but not least, the person you've had to suffer sitting next to for the past 2 to 20 hours who thinks we're now best friends and see you again real soon (NOT! NOT FREAKIN' EVER!!)

..... There's more, I'm just feeling too relaxed at the moment
Dave

..... Oh, one last one: sitting next to William Shatner and he keeps saying there's someone on the wing (this will be lost on anyone who never saw that "Twilight Zone" episode)

yyzjo777 · 05-31-2008, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dboyd001

.....[*]those whiney kids sitting directly behind you kicking the seat[*]Having the jerk in front of you recline their chair back so their head is effectively in your lap.[*]The one who takes their shoes off and their feet smells like some swamp from a horror movie (or worse).[*]Sitting next to someone who asks if you're going to eat this or that from your meal.

Sitting next to someone that is burping/farting/snoring, etc.

Quote:

..... Oh, one last one: sitting next to William Shatner and he keeps saying there's someone on the wing (this will be lost on anyone who never saw that "Twilight Zone" episode)

"Nightmare At 20,000 Feet" ... one of my all time favourite Twili

05-30-2008, 08:24 AM	#1
Gargle Jus Senior Collector Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Ottawa Age: 15 Posts: 354	overweight people=1 seat. agree or disagree I heard on radio this morning airlines are now forbidden to charge overweight people for more than one seat. I disagree with this. They charge people for oversized baggage, why not oversized bodies? Sitting beside an overweight person can be slightly less than enjoyable for fellow passengers if they are spilling into your seat. If they take up 2 seats they should have to pay for them. However there is also the argument that it's not their fault if they are overweight. In MOST cases, this is a bullcrap. Unless you have a doctor note or something that entitles you to 2 seats maybe you should have to pay the same fare, but otherwise i think you should have to pay extra. What do you guys think? __________________ the line has been crossed

05-30-2008, 12:41 PM	#2
B-16707 i need more space Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 6,250	Re: overweight people=1 seat. agree or disagree i work in the nutrition field and many are claiming obesity to be a "disease" and something that one cant help....or the cure hasnt been found yet. given that.... i still wouldnt like to sit next to a muffin topper....especially one that spills over the arm rests. sorry if i offended anyone but you people need to get up, get out and start exercising and watch your diet. __________________ The Completed Customs The Airport want 1:200 B773ER details decals? for info check this out http://www.diecastaircraftforum.com/...tml#post601882

05-30-2008, 12:43 PM	#3
Horizon CRJ700 Village Idiot Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: KRDM Posts: 694	Re: overweight people=1 seat. agree or disagree Unless there are extenuating circumstances, as to why they are MORBIDLY OBESE. I am talking completely disabled, or have extremely bad diabetes, people should be charged for the two seats that it is nexcessary for them to occupy. Being obese is a choice, there may be some genetic traits involved, but in the end, you make the choice to not get off the couch and do something. __________________ "the first thing any country, no matter how poor it is or how war-torn, must do upon independence is buy a 747 and fly it to Heathrow".

05-30-2008, 02:39 PM	#4
DLmd11 Master Collector Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: suburb of chicago Posts: 698	Re: overweight people=1 seat. agree or disagree As many as they need so they don't spill over into my seat. Not being insensitive but we are the heaviest, out of shape and unhealthy country in the world.

05-30-2008, 02:50 PM	#5
Mystère Mercure 100 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Midway between Omaha Beach and Paris. Age: 38 Posts: 1,102	Re: overweight people=1 seat. agree or disagree I was wondering, what if almost everyone onboard was obese ?... Just a thought... __________________

05-30-2008, 03:01 PM	#6
B773ER Retro Randy Join Date: Apr 2006 Age: 49 Posts: 2,885	Re: overweight people=1 seat. agree or disagree After having the experience of sitting next to an obese person on a Delta flight from Richmond to Atlanta back in 1996, I agree. Obese people need to be charged for two seats. The man who sat next to me was so large, he needed a seat belt extender and was spilling over into my seat. I feel I'm entitled to have the ENTIRE seat I paid for - not a portion of it - during the flight. __________________ I Y TriStars

05-30-2008, 03:18 PM	#7
HTF200 Senior Collector Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 239	Re: overweight people=1 seat. agree or disagree there is the business class option

05-30-2008, 04:12 PM	#8
B-16707 i need more space Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 6,250	Re: overweight people=1 seat. agree or disagree i think most people (including myself) would just suck it up and sit next to the muffin topper. i think most people are non confrontational. i wouldnt speak up wanting to change seats if there was a fatso next to me....im flying out tonight....i hope this doesnt happen to me. __________________ The Completed Customs The Airport want 1:200 B773ER details decals? for info check this out http://www.diecastaircraftforum.com/...tml#post601882

05-30-2008, 04:24 PM	#9
L-1011-Heavy The Heavy One Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada, Eh? Trijets & Landors 4 EVER Age: 45 Posts: 4,443	Re: overweight people=1 seat. agree or disagree I'm A Bit Heavy Myself, Bit Not Obese To The Point I Spill Over To The Next Seat. If I Did Become That Excessive I Expect To Pay For 2 Seats. Afterall Someone ELSE Paid For That Seat & I Encroach On To Their Space Then I Should Pay More & The Other Occupant Should Pay Less. But We Don't Live In A Perfect World Where Everything Is Chopped Up Into Pieces Of Pie. One SHOULDN'T Encroach On Another's Space. It Causes Discomfort That Exacerbates With Time. The Longer The Flight, The Greater The Discomfort. So Yes Customers Of Size That Spill Into Another's Space Should Pay Extra, But Get 2 Seats. That Way The Fat Guy Plus Others Sitting Adjacent Won't Feel Any Discomfort. That Aside Heavier Passengers Cost The Airlines More. A Heavy Passenger Should Pay Extra Freight Charges Too! (Just Kidding! Paying For 2 Seats Already Does That) Southwest Has Been Very Good About The Whole Thing. They Only Charge 50% For The Second Seat & They Actually Walk With The Passenger To See If They Fit Within The Armrests. Talk About SERVICE!!! Trouble Is Most Customers Of Size Think It's Cool To Get A Seat Sale For 200 Bucks & Barely Squeeze In Between The Armrests Even If Their Love Handles Spill In To The Next Seat. WRONG!!!! I Wouldn't Do That. (And Southwest Allows It Most Times So Not To Offend The Fat Guy) Big & Tall Shops Charge A Premium Because Their Customers Require More Material & Often Custom Tailoring Because Of The Real Estate They Have To Cover. It's Only Fair Airlines Can Charge Extra For Freight & Space. __________________ *The Heavy Armada* *"In The Absence Of Excellence, There Is Only Mediocrity."*

05-30-2008, 05:44 PM	#13
B773ER Retro Randy Join Date: Apr 2006 Age: 49 Posts: 2,885	Re: overweight people=1 seat. agree or disagree I had thought about first class too, given many of the shorter U.S. routes on smaller aircraft don't have business class. For example, on Virgin America, first class fare is approximately double their economy class fare, so why not go in first class instead of buying two economy class seats? Free food and alcohol. WOOHOO. . __________________ I Y TriStars

05-30-2008, 08:23 PM	#15
bok269 Junior Collector Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 9	Re: overweight people=1 seat. agree or disagree You use two seats you pay for two seats. Simple as that.

05-30-2008, 09:14 PM	#16
fazeman Setting The Pace Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Virginia Beach, Va. Age: 49 Posts: 1,869	Re: overweight people=1 seat. agree or disagree I hear you all on the obese issue. Charging for two seats should be an option for the airlines. Another option would be to stow them in the cargo hold with specially designed seats. But really, the biggest problem that continues to exist today is jockeying for that coveted piece of real estate known as the center armrest. You can sit next to the skinniest person and still have that level of discomfort for space. __________________ Steve

05-30-2008, 09:19 PM	#17
FWA2500 Line Service @ KOXD Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: KOXD - Oxford Age: 19 Posts: 100	Re: overweight people=1 seat. agree or disagree i wish the very large woman sitting next to me two weeks ago on DAL760 (LAS-CVG) would have had an extra seat, and there were no empty seats, otherwise i would have asked for a switch....so i was stuck with half a seat between the window and this very large woman who was literally flowing over the arm rest....not comfortable for either of us. large people should pay the extra for another seat or for biz-class (wish larger seats) and then everyone would be happy as noone is crowding each other oh, and PLEASE do not wear overpowering perfume/aftershave/whatever when you are flying.....but please do shower before hand as it is VERY unpleasant sitting next to someone with overpowering smells.....im not sure if i passed out because i was so tired or from that woman's very strong perfume. __________________ My Collection like racing? click here! Last edited by FWA2500; 05-30-2008 at 09:22 PM.

05-31-2008, 12:17 AM	#18
Roarer CEO of Haggis Airways. Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Flying between PPW and WRY. Age: 4 Posts: 1,184	Re: overweight people=1 seat. agree or disagree Quite frankly, I'd rather travel business class. Let the obese and/or the Sweaty Bettys' go cattle class. OR, at least have it where there is adequate space for everyone. I know that there are medical reasons. If you are having steroids whilst having chemo for example, the person generally will balloon in weight because they are always hungry 7 hours a day 24 days a week. Something I never had thankfully. However, it starts to become a grey area, as some people are just heavy by nature. If, IF, however, it's just because they like too much cake and it's their own fault, then, yes, charge them extra! Ironically for being on a forum like this, I don't really have this problem as I only fly when I really have to. I like to watch the countryside passing by instead of boring cloud and distant land below see, even if it takes me several times longer to do. Not because I have a thing about flying or anything, don't get me wrong, I LOVE heights and flying! Last time I flew was in Nov '06, and even then it was simply because I had to be in 2 places at one as it were I use flight as a tool when I am in a hurry/ don't have a choice. Even the first first time I flew for more than about 10 mins was when I was 17 (BA from Glasgow to Zurich via Heathrow), and I loved every minuite of it (getting to ride extensively in the cockpit helped of course!). The other irony of this is that, I have a problem with my thyroid, meaning I cannot gain any weight. I have been the same weight since I was about 15, so I'm not likely to flounce over into someone else's seat. Roarer McToothpick - 9 stone. 'Whooo ate all the pies ....'. __________________ 'Up close, the Britten Norman Islander has the air of a relic from a bygone era, but it is precisely that. Built in the '80s to a 1960s design, this is a plane that first turned up for work when Prime Minister Harold Wilson wore a Gannex raincoat and the first coat of paint was still wet on Coronation Street. But when the daily remit is multiple short hops between tiny bumpy strips in a climate that flickers from the blustery to the apocalyptic, this sturdy little craft is hard to beat.' Last edited by Roarer; 05-31-2008 at 12:51 AM.

05-31-2008, 01:05 AM	#19
gospodin Diecast Blasphemer Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Ceti Alpha V Age: 52 Posts: 2,984	Re: overweight people=1 seat. agree or disagree Our society is an enabling one. We say, "It's not your fault if you're heavy, it's genetic or a disease." We pat people on the back for mediocrity, we tell people that criminal behavior is not their fault. It's all BS, and we need to stop doing it. Fat people are fat because they eat too much and don't exercise. I don't mean the genuinely ill people who have a metabolic condition or thyroid problems or whatever...the vast majority of fatties are self made. I'm overweight myself, but not to the extend of being morbidly obese...but I put every ounce on myself. If a truly fat person gets advantages like a free seat for their wide load, they will feel entitled, and make no effort to change their habits...why should they? They get accommodated. Extra wide seating in theaters, extra wide toilets at restaurants...even guerneys in ambulances are being widened and reinforced. Just another example of the downward spiral.... __________________ Steve "Leave the gun. Take the cannoli."

05-31-2008, 09:35 AM	#22
dboyd001 Ex Machina Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: western NY Posts: 877	other flying nightmares ..... Flying isn't what it was a generation or two ago. Look at ads from the 1950s to the early 1960s. People dressed up to take a flight. I guess there's no going back to that. A national talk-radio host usually does a segment on airline horror stories after she takes a flight. I can relate. Other gripes, apart from the fatties are: People who dress like their going to their back porch to swill a beer (AKA dressed like bums or worse). Dead breath or overpowering perfume/colonge (mentioned earlier) The jerk who has to have the window seat, but also has an apparent bladder problem seeming to have to go to the lavatory every ten minutes. whiney kids those whiney kids sitting directly behind you kicking the seat the one who seems to need every barffbag on the plane. the one who has to talk with you through the entire flight. that same one above who has to tell you their freakin' boring life story. that same one who want to know my life story (and I'm not telling). Having the jerk in front of you recline their chair back so their head is effectively in your lap. The one who has to comment on the movie even if you're not even watching it. The one who takes their shoes off and their feet smells like some swamp from a horror movie (or worse). Sitting next to someone who asks if you're going to eat this or that from your meal. And last, but not least, the person you've had to suffer sitting next to for the past 2 to 20 hours who thinks we're now best friends and see you again real soon (NOT! NOT FREAKIN' EVER!!) ..... There's more, I'm just feeling too relaxed at the moment Dave ..... Oh, one last one: sitting next to William Shatner and he keeps saying there's someone on the wing (this will be lost on anyone who never saw that "Twilight Zone" episode)