Breaking News - Heathrow Shutdown, BA772 landed short of the runway.

Rex · 01-17-2008, 08:43 AM

Time of the Emergency landing 12.42hrs

Date: Thursday 17th January

Heathrow Airport is at a standstill because of an incident involving a BA flight and the airport has been closed to incoming aircraft.The Prime Minister's flight to China was delayed after the flight from Beijing to London landed short of the runway.

Plane landed short of runway

Passengers had to leave the Boeing 777 by emergency chutes and the emergency services were standing by.
Sky producer Jonathan Levy said that "nothing is moving at all" at the airport.
The flight involved is BA 38. BA has not given details, but has confirmed that one of its flights had been involved in "an incident".

he Fire Brigade has also confirmed it is attending an "incident" at Heathrow Airport.
Security at Heathrow was already higher than normal, Levy said, both because of Gordon Brown's flight and because the Qatari royal family were due to pass through the airport.

Source: Gordon Brown's Flight Delayed By Incident At Heathrow |Sky News|Business

More infos here: Airliners.net Civil Aviation: BREAKING: BA 777 Off Runway At LHR

Rex · 01-17-2008, 08:49 AM

From the Latest Updates From Heathrow |Sky News|Home

Here are the latest updates from the scene. Click here to refresh the page for the latest news.
:: The British Airways incident helpline is 0800 389 4193.
:: A spokeswoman for London Ambulance Service said three passengers were assessed for minor injuries following the incident.
:: Delays to flights are expected.
:: Pictures of the plane showed the undercarriage of the aircraft severely damaged as if it had slid across the ground.
:: Serious damage to the right engine could be seen.
:: Scotland Yard say there is nothing to suggest the incident is terror-related.
:: A Heathrow airport spokesman said: "A British Airways flight arriving from Beijing carried out an emergency landing at 12.42pm.
:: The Heathrow southern runway has been closed, but the northern runway remains open.
:: The plane involved was a Boeing 777.
:: A passenger on the affected plane reportedly phoned his wife to say his aeroplane had crash landed, but that people had been led off safely.
:: Witnesses said around six fire engines were at the scene of the incident. The aircraft's emergency chute appeared to have been deployed.
:: The incident took place as the Prime Minister was due to leave Heathrow for China and India. His flight has been delayed.
:: British Airways said there had been "an incident" at Heathrow involving flight BA38 from Beijing but would give no further details.

D-AIHC · 01-17-2008, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C-Rex

The Heathrow southern runway has been closed, but the northern runway remains open.

With only one runway to handle all the flights that means LHR is only at 50% capacity. Any info if some flights have been diverted to LGW or other nearby hubs like CDG or AMS?

Shanghai · 01-17-2008, 09:23 AM

I was watching CNN and they said Heathrow said it was able to handle all the aircraft using one runway, but later in the day there might be some delays and diversions.

As of now, I am thinking that there were landing gear problems. If there were problems, and the pilots knew about it, how would the pilots land? Would they land on a hard surface (runway) where sparks can for, or land on a soft surface (grass) where fuel would have less of a chance to ignite.

Just a thought...

TexAV8R · 01-17-2008, 09:37 AM

I wonder if this is the first ever 'major' incident involving a 777.

Mystère · 01-17-2008, 09:47 AM

A video here : ASN Aircraft accident description Boeing 777-236ER G-YMMM - London-Heathrow Airport (LHR)

It did land on grass, but ended its course directly on the runway !

samee380 · 01-17-2008, 09:50 AM

According to Sky News everything is running normal and just abit of delay and some aircrafts diverted to Stanstead, Gatwick and Luton.

Just glad everyone is ok!

1:200Freak · 01-17-2008, 10:16 AM

Wasnt this registration very famous on FS 2004. I think recall seeing G-YMMM as being very familiar..Maybe i'm wrong

D-AIHC · 01-17-2008, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shanghai

As of now, I am thinking that there were landing gear problems.

Apparently so:

BA plane makes emergency landing in London - Yahoo! News

"Fire engines smothered the Boeing 777 in foam after it landed with its wings extensively damaged and its undercarriage wrecked."

"One eyewitness, Steve Bell, said the wheels were not down on landing, and he heard a grating noise.
"It turned about 90 degrees on landing. Its wheels were not down. Within minutes fire crews arrived and evacuated all the passengers," he told BBC News 24 television."

Extensive damage to both wings...hmmm, sounds like a WO to me! Plus, both engines are damaged too. More pics here:

Boeing Co. - Yahoo! News Photos

1:200Freak · 01-17-2008, 11:17 AM

If the landing gears were not down...how did it break off. There is a pic of a part of the landing gear clearly broken off, not sure which part?

cathay250 · 01-17-2008, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1:200Freak

If the landing gears were not down...how did it break off. There is a pic of a part of the landing gear clearly broken off, not sure which part?

Yes the landing gear must have been down! Maybe engine failure, coming in to fast? Who knows at this stage.

B-16707 · 01-17-2008, 11:52 AM

interesting......

Rex · 01-17-2008, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaitanium

interesting......

Here's a shot of the cripled 772 on its belly.

Look at the mangled mess around the engine 1.

1:200Freak · 01-17-2008, 12:02 PM

Attachment 41775

Notice the automated caption that appears under the pic!

...

D-AIHC · 01-17-2008, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1:200Freak

Notice the automated caption that appears under the pic!

Oh yes, a very "friendly way" to fly indeed!

Prestwick Pioneer · 01-17-2008, 12:06 PM

By the time the news reached some of our staff, it was as a result of the doors popping off due to testing low pressure tyres made of canada Geese as the captain made a barrel roll to prevent the geese falling off. Glad no-one was hurt and I offer no opinion as to the cause.

D-AIHC · 01-17-2008, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C-Rex

Look at the mangled mess around the engine 1.

IMO, engine no. 2 looks worse:

It's safe to say that both engines are damaged beyond repair!

Rex · 01-17-2008, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-AIHC

IMO, engine no. 2 looks worse:

It's safe to say that both engines are damaged beyond repair!

No doubt about that.

That's correct.

1:200Freak · 01-17-2008, 01:30 PM

Just glad they made as far as they did...Even shorter of where they touched down would have been terrible! Would this be the first 777 incident?

Rex · 01-17-2008, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1:200Freak

Just glad they made as far as they did...Even shorter of where they touched down would have been terrible! Would this be the first 777 incident?

This is the first ever hull-loss incident for a Boeing 777. Non fatal incident thank God.

N. Eberhard · 01-17-2008, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prestwick Pioneer

By the time the news reached some of our staff, it was as a result of the doors popping off due to testing low pressure tyres made of canada Geese as the captain made a barrel roll to prevent the geese falling off. Glad no-one was hurt and I offer no opinion as to the cause.

What I got out of Prestwicks post is this. Someone correct me if I am wrong here.
.........................
BA was testing aircraft tires made from Canadian Geese (which parts of the geese i wonder?). Apparently there were also real geese on the aircraft so the pilot rolled the aircraft to keep them from falling off.
......................

If the above is true then I want what PP is smoking......or maybe not. I also applaud the captain for successfully rolling the aircraft and 'almost' making a landing soon afterward. Since no one was hurt then I will give the pilot a 7 out of 10 for this stunt. Something tells me though that BA is done with experimenting with gooses on their aircraft.

Anyways, 22 years w/o an accident is pretty darn good in my book. I applaud the 777 engineers and those who work on these 'birds' and extremely glad to hear that no one was hurt and that no one's 'goose' was cooked either.

In the end, I think that they will find that there was some sort of wind shear that caused a sudden drop in lift. Or maybe a giant goose whacked it.

1:200Freak · 01-17-2008, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by N. Eberhard

BA was testing aircraft tires made from Canadian Geese (which parts of the geese i wonder?). Apparently there were also real geese on the aircraft so the pilot rolled the aircraft to keep them from falling off.

I was "huh" myself when I read PP's remarks...Your explanation is hilarious

!

QFA388 · 01-17-2008, 02:22 PM

Also talk about roll control and major rudder inputs required to keep it flying due to power loss.

Whether this is correct or not, can't really say.
I suspect there will be lots of speculation until the investigations findings are published.

Looks like that bird will find a new life as Pepsi cans cause it looks quite banged up, however they managed to fix the QF744 years ago so it will be interesting to now follow this ariframes life.
The crew and pax were damn lucky, thankfully!
Well done to the crew is all I can say.

mjabbasi · 01-17-2008, 02:43 PM

Whoever must have been there outside Hatton Cross tube station plane spotting must sure have had the shock of their lives if not caught the whole thing on video. I've seen a/c coming down over there and they're already so low as it is. Keep an eye out on youtube.

There are several possibilities as to why and how this could have happened, from pilot error to onboard computer malfunction/failure, wind shear etc. Of course BA will be fiercely protective of its image and reputation as would Boeing and even when the official version as to what happened is released to the public, there may be certain things that won't be revealed.

From the pics it appears the a/c landed on the wet grassy area just before the runway as you can clearly see the marks left on the green patch and an a/c of this size and weight would have just sunk into the soft grass and upon the landing gear reaching and striking the concrete edge/boundary of the runway was when the landing gear was torn off as it was much lower into the ground, hence it sort 'tripped up' and belly flopped at the runway threshold. Either way, the a/c is a writeoff.

MarinerOne · 01-17-2008, 03:10 PM

"Rough" start for Boeing in 2008 ... another 3-month delay for the Dreamliner and then this mishap ... thank God there were no fatalities!

Sounds like engine failure is the culprit, but what triggered the engine failure is up for further investigation ...

Eyewitnesses said the aircraft "dropped like a stone" after it "see-sawed" on its approach, with its nose bobbing up and down.
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One airport worker who spoke to the as yet unnamed pilot said: "He told me the aircraft shut down and lost power.

"He glided it across and managed to get the nose up. It happened very close to coming in to land, probably over Hounslow.

"Everything was normal and there was no warning or anything and suddenly 'boom’, the power’s gone.

"This man deserves a medal as big as a frying pan. He’s done a fantastic job, he really has."

The captain, one of BA’s most experienced pilots with nearly 20 years service, was described by one passenger as looking "very pale" as the plane was evacuated.

BA plane crash pilot hailed a hero at Heathrow - Telegraph

Prestwick Pioneer · 01-17-2008, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by N. Eberhard

What I got out of Prestwicks post is this. Someone correct me if I am wrong here.
.........................
BA was testing aircraft tires made from Canadian Geese (which parts of the geese i wonder?). Apparently there were also real geese on the aircraft so the pilot rolled the aircraft to keep them from falling off.
......................
If the above is true then I want what PP is smoking......or maybe not. I also applaud the captain for successfully rolling the aircraft and 'almost' making a landing soon afterward. Since no one was hurt then I will give the pilot a 7 out of 10 for this stunt. Something tells me though that BA is done with experimenting with gooses on their aircraft.
Anyways, 22 years w/o an accident is pretty darn good in my book. I applaud the 777 engineers and those who work on these 'birds' and extremely glad to hear that no one was hurt and that no one's 'goose' was cooked either.
In the end, I think that they will find that there was some sort of wind shear that caused a sudden drop in lift. Or maybe a giant goose whacked it.

Damn right!!!!!!!!!!!!
That is pretty much the story by the time some of our agents upstairs had got a hold of it and told us in Ops!!!!!
Its like Chinese whispers, all the way from Beijing, only to fall short(on facts).

Got any Clarky Cat?

B-16707 · 01-17-2008, 04:06 PM

first 777 crash!

Rex · 01-17-2008, 04:31 PM

Hmmmm... You guys do realize that the QF744 in SIN was in a better shape during the overrun-crash than this BA772 incident, right ?
If the spaniards can manage to fix their A346 that overran the runway at Quito Airport, Ecuador, we all expected it to be a Write off, didnt we ? So my thought is that if the spaniards can do that, so can the brats, woops, I meant the Brits !

MarinerOne · 01-17-2008, 04:46 PM

I'm not so sure that this plane is a total write-off ... depending on how bad the lower fuselage structure is, and the wing spars, it may be within the realms of a major repair. I don't see any crumpling of the fuselage frames, which is a good sign - although the picture isn't representative of the actual damage incurred.

Prestwick Pioneer · 01-17-2008, 05:00 PM

I think the structural loads that pushed the U/C thru the wing will have put paid to the wing/spar area, but I could be wrong. They are scrapping some of the early 772 with the pissy MTOWs, but I dont think the wings are interchangeable between the low and high gross weight aircraft, however, as this is a High gross weight machine and it has more market value, then BA may consider it if it can be done.. I will ask some of the engineers on the airfield what they think. Im personally thinkin a write off!!

continental · 01-17-2008, 05:23 PM

THIS JUST IN: Gravity is being blamed for bringing the aircraft down. Film at 11.

Rex · 01-17-2008, 05:47 PM

Click on the Arrow, and press PLAY on the bottom left.

Political Editor Adam Boulton on board the PM's flight.

MarinerOne · 01-17-2008, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C-Rex

Click on the Arrow, and press PLAY on the bottom left.

Political Editor Adam Boulton on board the PM's flight.

...

I'm sorry, but I could not understand the bloke.

He was speaking "British" ...

(sorry, I just couldn't resist

)

dylan · 01-17-2008, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C-Rex

This is the first ever hull-loss incident for a Boeing 777. Non fatal incident thank God.

Hull loss? Little quick to jump the gun there?

Rex · 01-17-2008, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dylan

Hull loss? Little quick to jump the gun there?

That was an old comment. I forgot to delete that.

I changed my mind at Post # 28, The Brits can do it, Ring any bell ??

HOWUDN · 01-17-2008, 08:26 PM

Just heard a report here in Australia from a guy who lives new the airport in Heatrow, he said he saw the aircraft with full flaps doing a normal landing then the aircraft started to see saw nose up then nose down and the it just fell out of the sky and hit the ground hard which caused the landing gear to seperate from the aircraft. As to the question of write off your not, it all depends on how much British airways wants to spend on repairing so they don't end up with a lost aircraft on their record. Anything can be fixed with the right amount of money.

N. Eberhard · 01-17-2008, 08:49 PM

I think the insurance company will have something to say about whether it is written off or not.

tripoli · 01-17-2008, 09:52 PM

From what I am reading across the net and aviation forums, it appears the pilot had just let down the gear when all the power went out. The 777 is a glass cockpit and without power on final, it had to be pretty hairy. The pilot was noted to take manual control as the co-pilot tried to restart the system. They were unable to even radio the problem into ATC in the final moments.
Had to be one heck of a failure probably linked to a system with the landing procedures and or computer control system.

This may end up being another case where the pilot did an incredible heroic job with no time to contemplate it through, just the seat of the pants flying and getting it down as safe as he did. If thats the case, the guy deserves an incredible hero's reception down the line.

CcrlR737pilot · 01-17-2008, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tripoli

From what I am reading across the net and aviation forums, it appears the pilot had just let down the gear when all the power went out. The 777 is a glass cockpit and without power on final, it had to be pretty hairy. The pilot was noted to take manual control as the co-pilot tried to restart the system. They were unable to even radio the problem into ATC in the final moments.
Had to be one heck of a failure probably linked to a system with the landing procedures and or computer control system.

This may end up being another case where the pilot did an incredible heroic job with no time to contemplate it through, just the seat of the pants flying and getting it down as safe as he did. If thats the case, the guy deserves an incredible hero's reception down the line.

Yeah it looks like one of those heroic actions like the flight crew of Unied Flight 232 (The DC-10 that crashed in Sioux City Iowa). Their actions saved several people and ended up helping change procedures on how to control an airplane when all hydraulics are lost. I was wondering if there was a circuit failure somewhere that shut the whole plane's electric system. Since you brought this up and I was wondering if a circuit breaker failed or some other electrical problem happened.

Rex · 01-18-2008, 06:45 AM

More picture here: heathrowpictures.com

Take a look at the left wing-Body joint part. (I dont know the exact word for it)

D-AIHC · 01-18-2008, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tripoli

Had to be one heck of a failure probably linked to a system with the landing procedures and or computer control system.

You bet it was, especially when the B777 has redundancy systems built in it.

tripoli · 01-18-2008, 10:16 AM

Thats it, the systems redundancy should have kicked in, but it appears some huge failure had to happen. In training, its is always the takeoff and landing that presents the most possibilities of a failure as that is when the aircraft is undergoing changes in the flight characteristics and flight systems platform. If anything is going to happen unexpectedly, most likely it will be during those phases of flight. You can bet the Boeing technicians will be pouring over that plane to see what the circumstances were.

You can see in the video the crew had plenty of time under normal conditions to add power and hold it up to make the threshold. He was nose high trying to keep it in the air long enough to make the runway. You can also see where the tires touch down hard in the grass when it finally stalls, bounce up a bit and then tear along the grass upon full touchdown until it collapsed. The wing damage is the struts failing and punching up into the wing as they collapse.

1:200Freak · 01-18-2008, 10:23 AM

Is it just me or does that video stop halfway through?

D-AIHC · 01-18-2008, 01:32 PM

Note: this is just the preliminary investigation...

Crashed 777 engines did not respond to auto-throttle

GliderPilot · 01-18-2008, 01:42 PM

A good landing is one you can walk away from. A great landing is one you can walk away from and someone else can use the aeroplane after you. I'd say this was a good landing. I don't think it will ever fly again.

1:200Freak · 01-18-2008, 02:41 PM

Now that video of the landing seems to have disappeared...or my computer is playing up! Could somebody provide a link to it, so it could be opened in another browser, perhaps?

N. Eberhard · 01-18-2008, 03:15 PM

You can see at the end of the video where the cockpit crew simultaneously soils their drawers as they know there is no way it is going to be a routine landing. It looked like the dam Concorde on approach.

corby78 · 01-18-2008, 07:31 PM

Fox News just reported that between 500-1000' the pilot noticed that the engines were not responding to throtle inputs, and he had lost power. Only a matter of seconds to save the thing. Although this would have been really bad story had the engines gave up earlier in the approach. Not very familiar with the approach into Hethrow, not sure what kind of area they fly over to get to the runway.

1:200Freak · 01-18-2008, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corby78

Not very familiar with the approach into Hethrow, not sure what kind of area they fly over to get to the runway.

I think mjabbasi is familiar with the approach

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjabbasi

Whoever must have been there outside Hatton Cross tube station plane spotting must sure have had the shock of their lives if not caught the whole thing on video. I've seen a/c coming down over there and they're already so low as it is. Keep an eye out on youtube.

zubart · 01-18-2008, 10:32 PM

Just heard on the nightly news that the airplane had an engine failure on short final. Having an engine failure at 500 to 1000 feet can be a little hairy. At this point the Captain would have to decide to execute a single engine go-around or continue the approach with present flaps and land. Below 500 continueing the approach with current landing flaps may be the option to take, but drag from full flaps may cause airsppeed to bleed off and a uncontrollable sink rate to develope. Above 500 feet it would probably be best to execute a single engine manual go-around, autopilot and auto-throttle disenged. B-777 may have slightly different proceedures for an engine failure on short final. Looks like the crew did a great controlling the touch down and allowing everyone walk away from the incident.