TAM Airlines Flight 3054 Crash tape relays Brazil pilots' terror

D-AIHC · 08-01-2007, 03:12 PM

FDR and CVR reveals vital information not known before. Among them:

1. Spoilers were not able to be deployed.
2. One of the throttles was in the wrong position, causing the aircraft to speed up instead.

Crash tape relays Brazil pilots' terror - Yahoo! News

Also, something I've expected:

TAM airlines, Airbus sued in US over Brazil air tragedy - Yahoo! News

MarinerOne · 08-01-2007, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-AIHC

FDR and CVR reveals vital information not known before. Among them:

1. Spoilers were not able to be deployed.
2. One of the throttles was in the wrong position, causing the aircraft to speed up instead.

Crash tape relays Brazil pilots' terror - Yahoo! News

Also, something I've expected:

TAM airlines, Airbus sued in US over Brazil air tragedy - Yahoo! News

Very interesting revelation there D-IHAC ... in some ways, if this is true, then the plane "outsmarted" itself into thinking that it was "taking off" and disabled the spoiler system.

YIKES!!!

B-16707 · 08-01-2007, 04:30 PM

throttles in wrong position - sounds like pilot error to me. can a plane throttle up automatically?

CFTGEFAN · 08-01-2007, 09:55 PM

I don't think we can or should try to conclude what happened as its to early to say at this but its sounding like aircraft computer's malfunction some what similar to what happened to Air France's A320 that crashed in 1988 at Paris airshow.

jasonsw · 08-02-2007, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CFTGEFAN

I don't think we can or should try to conclude what happened as its to early to say at this but its sounding like aircraft computer's malfunction some what similar to what happened to Air France's A320 that crashed in 1988 at Paris airshow.

that's freaky, i was thinking the same when i read about 'the plane "outsmarted" itself into thinking that it was "taking off" and disabled the spoiler system.' part... hmmmmmmm.

MarinerOne · 08-02-2007, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasonsw

that's freaky, i was thinking the same when i read about 'the plane "outsmarted" itself into thinking that it was "taking off" and disabled the spoiler system.' part... hmmmmmmm.

Precisely ... now Boeing airliners wouldn't be able to "outsmart" themselves would they? I believe in Boeing planes the pilot has the ultimate control over the airliner in most/all instances ... can anyone substantiate that design philosophy?

Santos · 08-02-2007, 01:29 PM

This articles are quite interesting. I also read it in the brazilian press but there is another importsnt issue: TAM was flying with a full load of pax and cargo (plus some extras) with a heavy aircraft to an airport with a short runaway during a rainy day with one thrust reverser out of order since last friday ( 5 days before). GOL and VARIG pilots DON`T land on CGH and SDU without both reversers working properly. So TAM is guilty too! BTW, TAM has a bad safety record and that´s why I avoid them at all cost.

TexAV8R · 08-02-2007, 01:47 PM

A picture that shows the scene before the crash..

JetPhotos.Net Photo » SBSP Airport Overview Airport by Tamon Takeoka

D-AIHC · 08-03-2007, 09:38 AM

Quote:

JetPhotos.Net Photo » SBSP Airport Overview Airport by Tamon Takeoka

Octavio, is that the Shell gas station the plane crashed into, shown at the centre-right of the pic?

D-AIHC · 08-03-2007, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaitanium

throttles in wrong position - sounds like pilot error to me. can a plane throttle up automatically?

Pilot error was very likely but I don't think it throttled up automatically. I could be wrong but the only reason I see an automatic throttle up on an Airbus is when the aircraft is in stall. And to recover from stalling, you have to reduce the pitch and increase speed. In this case, stalling was never an issue since it was on the runway.

D-AIHC · 08-03-2007, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarinerOne

Precisely ... now Boeing airliners wouldn't be able to "outsmart" themselves would they? I believe in Boeing planes the pilot has the ultimate control over the airliner in most/all instances ... can anyone substantiate that design philosophy?

You are right, M1! I also read that a captain can't override the FMC on an Airbus (hard protection envelope) but he has the ultimate control on a Boeing (soft protection envelope). I'm not going to say which is better because both systems have their pros and cons. This is more like a philosophical difference between A & B.

Santos · 08-03-2007, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-AIHC

Octavio, is that the Shell gas station the plane crashed into, shown at the centre-right of the pic?

Yes it is! And where you can read INFRAERO in the grass near the taxiway is where the aircraft "took-off" into the TAM Express warehouse and the gas station.

Mystère · 08-03-2007, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CFTGEFAN

I don't think we can or should try to conclude what happened as its to early to say at this but its sounding like aircraft computer's malfunction some what similar to what happened to Air France's A320 that crashed in 1988 at Paris airshow.

"That is the classic aircraft accident," said J.A. Donoghue, editor in chief of Aerosafety World. "There is not just one thing that causes it, but rather it is a cascading series of events."

No Paris Air Show in 1988, the A320 crash that year was during an airshow in the East of France. Whether it was a pilot error or a/c malfunction is still unclear.
http://perso.orange.fr/crashdehabshe...lmkarsenty.wmv

D-AIHC · 08-03-2007, 12:13 PM

More from FlightGlobal:

TAM A320 crew did not retard right-hand thrust lever

Full transcript from CVR

08-01-2007, 03:12 PM	#1
D-AIHC Essen Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 6,194	TAM Airlines Flight 3054 Crash tape relays Brazil pilots' terror FDR and CVR reveals vital information not known before. Among them: 1. Spoilers were not able to be deployed. 2. One of the throttles was in the wrong position, causing the aircraft to speed up instead. Crash tape relays Brazil pilots' terror - Yahoo! News Also, something I've expected: TAM airlines, Airbus sued in US over Brazil air tragedy - Yahoo! News __________________ Lufthansa - Star Alliance member since 1997 Last edited by D-AIHC; 08-01-2007 at 03:17 PM.

08-01-2007, 04:30 PM	#3
B-16707 i need more space Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 5,706	Re: TAM Airlines Flight 3054 Crash tape relays Brazil pilots' terror throttles in wrong position - sounds like pilot error to me. can a plane throttle up automatically? __________________ The Completed Customs The Airport

08-01-2007, 09:55 PM	#4
CFTGEFAN Senior Collector Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Brampton, Ontario Posts: 368	Re: TAM Airlines Flight 3054 Crash tape relays Brazil pilots' terror I don't think we can or should try to conclude what happened as its to early to say at this but its sounding like aircraft computer's malfunction some what similar to what happened to Air France's A320 that crashed in 1988 at Paris airshow.

08-02-2007, 01:29 PM	#7
Santos South American collector Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Brazil Age: 36 Posts: 2,633	Re: TAM Airlines Flight 3054 Crash tape relays Brazil pilots' terror This articles are quite interesting. I also read it in the brazilian press but there is another importsnt issue: TAM was flying with a full load of pax and cargo (plus some extras) with a heavy aircraft to an airport with a short runaway during a rainy day with one thrust reverser out of order since last friday ( 5 days before). GOL and VARIG pilots DON`T land on CGH and SDU without both reversers working properly. So TAM is guilty too! BTW, TAM has a bad safety record and that´s why I avoid them at all cost. __________________ Wish list in 1:400 scale: 1) BETA DC-8-70F (dedicated to Celso please) 2) PANAIR DO BRASIL DC-8 reg.# PP-PDS 3) VARIGLOG MD-11F & B727-100 / 200F 4) VARIG Caravelle 5) TRANSBRASIL 727-100 6) RIO-SUL 737-500 old colors Thank you Aeroclassics for the VARIG Coronados!

08-02-2007, 01:47 PM	#8
TexAV8R Senior Collector Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 270	Re: TAM Airlines Flight 3054 Crash tape relays Brazil pilots' terror A picture that shows the scene before the crash.. JetPhotos.Net Photo » SBSP Airport Overview Airport by Tamon Takeoka __________________ Stay on the bomb run, boys! I'm gonna get them doors open if it harelips ever'body on Bear Creek!(Major T.J "King Kong" from the movie Dr. Strangelove)

08-03-2007, 12:13 PM	#14
D-AIHC Essen Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 6,194	More from FlightGlobal: TAM A320 crew did not retard right-hand thrust lever Full transcript from CVR __________________ Lufthansa - Star Alliance member since 1997

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