AA crash

freudenburg_26 · 10-26-2004, 10:33 PM

Im not really sure if this is old news or not, but i thought it was a lil interesting, but maybe not. Its about that AA flight that crashed a couple years ago in queens.

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.j...toryID=6619734

SInce im clueless about flying planes or anything like that, would one of you pilots care to tell me what kind of inapropiate rudder movements a pilot would make to snap off a tail? Thanks

wildcatfootball · 10-26-2004, 10:41 PM

It happened a few weeks after 9/11. The A300 has problems with rapid rudder movments, and the whole tail ripped off. A very sad tragedy.

Galapagapop · 10-26-2004, 10:52 PM

I have had some problems in understanding the report I feel there is still something missing, I'm not for that whole terrorist thing, its just who blames who. There was supposedly a filing by AA towards airbus because they disclosed documents showing clearly that there were structural problems with the A300 tail, now it could be AA trying to protect its image but you never know, Airbus claims AA used the rudder way to much when taking off and during flight. This would of coarse protect their image, my beef is with airbus, they claim that AA pilots used the rudder to much at those high speeds, but thats impossible seeing as the plane had just taken off and was climbing, it was going in the 250MPH range while the aircraft can go in the 320+, so how can the rudder be so stressed under such low speeds. THe turbulence from a Korean 744 is also being blamed, but that doesn't add to the velocity of the air hitting the rudder, and even if it was at max speeds that still would not explain the rapid loss of control from the rudder area. I hope we get another report to see what really is going on. I grant you this though AA will never buy an Airbus again, no matter how much cargo those A300 can carry.

dylan · 10-26-2004, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildcatfootball

It happened a few weeks after 9/11. The A300 has problems with rapid rudder movments, and the whole tail ripped off. A very sad tragedy.

Happened on 11/12/01 I think. They are saying the PF gave too much rudder (which side I dont know) and that in turn overstressed the vertical, ripping it off. I think the pilot did as he was trained. He was just flying a composite piece of crap of an airplane.

Starliner · 10-27-2004, 03:26 PM

The "Live at Five" News on WNBC New York blew a story a couple days ago about how 39 witnesses on and around Jamaica Bay reported seeing the plane on fire before the tail departed. It was standard "shove the microphone in their face and let them blow" stuff and they even interviewed a former NTSB investigator who expressed concern this was not looked into. Not knowing what the exact weather conditions were that day, could the "fire" simply have been condensation trails?

LAX1983 · 10-27-2004, 11:29 PM

I remember Bryant Gumbal on CBS say this about the crash "What we know is that An American Airlines boeing 767 or better known as an Airbus has crashed" I couldnt believe the bullsh.it he was sayin.

flyinfool · 10-29-2004, 01:23 AM

what a frickin idiot, that sounds like something dylan would say..

wildcatfootball · 10-29-2004, 01:27 AM

Flyinfool, your gettin hated REAL quick around here. Startin to sound as stupid as Mr GSE.

flyinfool · 10-29-2004, 02:01 AM

I'm gettin hated on purpose..it's fun to see all the lame insults people say and I laugh at them because they're the worst they can come up with..

freudenburg_26 · 10-29-2004, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildcatfootball

Flyinfool, your gettin hated REAL quick around here. Startin to sound as stupid as Mr GSE.

Would have to agree on that one. I would pay someone to block him from the forum or something like that, but im broke (never buy ski equipment before you get your paycheck)

ZX1100F1 · 10-29-2004, 04:51 PM

Regarding the rapid and full rudder deflection input by the PF (Pilot Flying) in this case the co-pilot swung the rudder all the way (to the stops) in both directions several times in an attempt to control the aircraft.
Think of this as driving your car down the highway at 75 MPH and abruptly turning the steering wheel back and forth (lock to lock) and you will understand a similarity in the dynamics of making this maneuver. I realize that this is not a perfect analogy but it will ultimately have the same effect (crash).
In reality, induced yaw angles associated with full (and rapid) rudder deflection can and will cause parts to fall off of Airbus aircraft (but not Boeing).

freudenburg_26 · 10-29-2004, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZX1100F1

Regarding the rapid and full rudder deflection input by the PF (Pilot Flying) in this case the co-pilot swung the rudder all the way (to the stops) in both directions several times in an attempt to control the aircraft.
Think of this as driving your car down the highway at 75 MPH and abruptly turning the steering wheel back and forth (lock to lock) and you will understand a similarity in the dynamics of making this maneuver. I realize that this is not a perfect analogy but it will ultimately have the same effect (crash).
In reality, induced yaw angles associated with full (and rapid) rudder deflection can and will cause parts to fall off of Airbus aircraft (but not Boeing).

Thanks, that helps, I didnt really understand what happened. One of these days I'll get my pilot license..........

flyinfool · 10-29-2004, 07:39 PM

One of these days...I'll snap and kill everyone

LAX1983 · 10-29-2004, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyinfool

One of these days...I'll snap and kill everyone

Looks like were gonna have raise the terror alert level to Orange!

freudenburg_26 · 10-30-2004, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LAX1983

Looks like were gonna have raise the terror alert level to Orange!

Maybe we could save some agony and get some vets (god bless 'em) to take him out.

flyinfool · 10-30-2004, 01:33 PM

Hey, shut up, I got dirt on you

LAX1983 · 10-30-2004, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyinfool

Hey, shut up, I got dirt on you

Where did you find the dirt? in the sandbox.

freudenburg_26 · 10-30-2004, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyinfool

Hey, shut up, I got dirt on you

Why did i ever talk to him on MSN. (sigh)

But im not really sure about the dirt...ya, prolly from the sandbox

Strategic Air Command · 10-30-2004, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freudenburg_26

But im not really sure about the dirt...ya, prolly from the sandbox

Sand comes from a sandbox! He has a dirtbox.

flyinfool · 10-31-2004, 01:48 AM

hmm..hey freudenburg_26..how's your popcorn holdin up after justin kneed you there while trampoline wrestling last night?

Strategic Air Command · 10-31-2004, 09:05 PM

I think they didnt say what they because of presure from EU.

10-26-2004, 10:33 PM	#1
freudenburg_26 Cool Dude Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: California Age: 18 Posts: 58	AA crash Im not really sure if this is old news or not, but i thought it was a lil interesting, but maybe not. Its about that AA flight that crashed a couple years ago in queens. http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.j...toryID=6619734 SInce im clueless about flying planes or anything like that, would one of you pilots care to tell me what kind of inapropiate rudder movements a pilot would make to snap off a tail? Thanks __________________ __________________________________ FLY jetBlue Bush/Cheney 2004 Last edited by freudenburg_26; 10-26-2004 at 10:35 PM.

10-26-2004, 10:41 PM	#2
wildcatfootball Master Collector Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: KCLS Age: 20 Posts: 828	It happened a few weeks after 9/11. The A300 has problems with rapid rudder movments, and the whole tail ripped off. A very sad tragedy. __________________

10-26-2004, 10:52 PM	#3
Galapagapop mmm.... Planes Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: CT, USA, I won't be the first to admit it, the weather sucks here. Posts: 544	I have had some problems in understanding the report I feel there is still something missing, I'm not for that whole terrorist thing, its just who blames who. There was supposedly a filing by AA towards airbus because they disclosed documents showing clearly that there were structural problems with the A300 tail, now it could be AA trying to protect its image but you never know, Airbus claims AA used the rudder way to much when taking off and during flight. This would of coarse protect their image, my beef is with airbus, they claim that AA pilots used the rudder to much at those high speeds, but thats impossible seeing as the plane had just taken off and was climbing, it was going in the 250MPH range while the aircraft can go in the 320+, so how can the rudder be so stressed under such low speeds. THe turbulence from a Korean 744 is also being blamed, but that doesn't add to the velocity of the air hitting the rudder, and even if it was at max speeds that still would not explain the rapid loss of control from the rudder area. I hope we get another report to see what really is going on. I grant you this though AA will never buy an Airbus again, no matter how much cargo those A300 can carry. __________________ In Dire need of a AA Md-80 in 1:500 scale, please Herpa listen. AA 7e7 by 2009!

10-27-2004, 11:29 PM	#6
LAX1983 ~Don Widgetlioni~ Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Southern California Age: 25 Posts: 1,172	I remember Bryant Gumbal on CBS say this about the crash "What we know is that An American Airlines boeing 767 or better known as an Airbus has crashed" I couldnt believe the bullsh.it he was sayin. __________________ ~A. J. R~

10-29-2004, 01:23 AM	#7
flyinfool Kool Kat Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: with my mother Age: 28 Posts: 67	what a frickin idiot, that sounds like something dylan would say.. __________________ Fly jetBlue or I'll Blue your jet

10-27-2004, 03:26 PM	#5
Starliner Senior Collector Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Norman OK USA Posts: 452	The "Live at Five" News on WNBC New York blew a story a couple days ago about how 39 witnesses on and around Jamaica Bay reported seeing the plane on fire before the tail departed. It was standard "shove the microphone in their face and let them blow" stuff and they even interviewed a former NTSB investigator who expressed concern this was not looked into. Not knowing what the exact weather conditions were that day, could the "fire" simply have been condensation trails?

10-29-2004, 01:27 AM	#8
wildcatfootball Master Collector Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: KCLS Age: 20 Posts: 828	Flyinfool, your gettin hated REAL quick around here. Startin to sound as stupid as Mr GSE. __________________

10-29-2004, 02:01 AM	#9
flyinfool Kool Kat Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: with my mother Age: 28 Posts: 67	I'm gettin hated on purpose..it's fun to see all the lame insults people say and I laugh at them because they're the worst they can come up with.. __________________ Fly jetBlue or I'll Blue your jet

10-29-2004, 04:51 PM	#11
ZX1100F1 Buford T. Justice Join Date: Sep 1999 Posts: 2,004	Regarding the rapid and full rudder deflection input by the PF (Pilot Flying) in this case the co-pilot swung the rudder all the way (to the stops) in both directions several times in an attempt to control the aircraft. Think of this as driving your car down the highway at 75 MPH and abruptly turning the steering wheel back and forth (lock to lock) and you will understand a similarity in the dynamics of making this maneuver. I realize that this is not a perfect analogy but it will ultimately have the same effect (crash). In reality, induced yaw angles associated with full (and rapid) rudder deflection can and will cause parts to fall off of Airbus aircraft (but not Boeing).

10-29-2004, 07:39 PM	#13
flyinfool Kool Kat Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: with my mother Age: 28 Posts: 67	One of these days...I'll snap and kill everyone __________________ Fly jetBlue or I'll Blue your jet

10-30-2004, 01:33 PM	#16
flyinfool Kool Kat Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: with my mother Age: 28 Posts: 67	Hey, shut up, I got dirt on you __________________ Fly jetBlue or I'll Blue your jet

10-31-2004, 01:48 AM	#20
flyinfool Kool Kat Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: with my mother Age: 28 Posts: 67	hmm..hey freudenburg_26..how's your popcorn holdin up after justin kneed you there while trampoline wrestling last night? __________________ Fly jetBlue or I'll Blue your jet

10-31-2004, 09:05 PM	#21
Strategic Air Command Master Collector Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 811	I think they didnt say what they because of presure from EU.

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