EasyJet vs. Mother Nature

Gordon Werner · 08-27-2003, 01:37 PM

Easyjet 737 HB-III departed Aug,15 at 09:50 from Geneva, and flew 10 minutes later into a Thunderstorm.

They returned to Geneva for an emergency landing.

08-27-2003, 01:44 PM

Gordon... what was it?? Hail???? Lightning????

08-27-2003, 01:45 PM

I have seen these pictures a few times over the past week (or few days) and am absolutely amazed each time I see them - not that the PLANE was able to land/fly having sustained such damage (they are, afterall, built to deal with such eventualities) but that the PILOT managed to bring the plane back to land safely.

I know one pilot who deserves commendation. Bravo.

They might cut back on the frills, but not on the training of their staff.

08-27-2003, 01:46 PM

Ouch...That's gotta hurt

.I'd really like to see the repair bill.

Andy · 08-27-2003, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eddy Two
I know one pilot who deserves commendation. Bravo. They might cut back on the frills, but not on the training of their staff.

Well that depends on whether he could have avoided flying into the hail in the first place. According to the comments on pprune, several departures prior to the EZY asked for deviations around the storm.

Andy

Gordon Werner · 08-27-2003, 01:57 PM

just hail ... and it can do this kind of damage to stationary objects ... never mind ones moving at 500+ mph.

24r · 08-27-2003, 01:58 PM

Wow, amazing that the plane made it back but then again it is a Boeing. Also great job by the Captain to bring it back in one piece.

Mark

08-27-2003, 02:00 PM

The dent removal guy sure is going to be busy..

Lufthansa · 08-27-2003, 02:09 PM

Wouldn´t it almost be cheaper to buy a used 737-300 to replace this one?

ba777-236 · 08-27-2003, 02:16 PM

OUCH! That's nasty!

I remember a similar incident occured with an Air Transat Tristar a couple of years back - although it didn't look nearly as bad as this aircraft looks.

Btw, here's a pic of the Air Transat bird: http://www.airliners.net/open.file/194114/L/ If I'm not mistaken, the plane was a total write-off.

Spectre · 08-27-2003, 02:39 PM

EasyJet vs. Mother Nature

Nature kicks serious butt..

didn't they know that going into a thunderstorm is bad poop

chrisjake · 08-27-2003, 03:13 PM

that had to be LOUD inside!

chris

Chansen · 08-27-2003, 03:19 PM

That is a true test of an airframe. Good thing it wasn't bullets.
A Mesa B-1900D had a similar experience here.

Klaatu · 08-27-2003, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eddy Two
I have seen these pictures a few times over the past week (or few days) and am absolutely amazed each time I see them - not that the PLANE was able to land/fly having sustained such damage (they are, afterall, built to deal with such eventualities) but that the PILOT managed to bring the plane back to land safely.

I know one pilot who deserves commendation. Bravo.

They might cut back on the frills, but not on the training of their staff.

All stories dealing with such eventualites don't have such a happy ending. Southern Airways flight 242 had a similar encounter with hail April 4, 1977 over Georgia - here's a link to the story:

http://pw1.netcom.com/~asapilot/242.html

With all the advancements in technology since EA66, SO242, PA759 and DL191, why was an airliner flying anywhere near a severe storm? In 2003 this should never have happened.

justin · 08-27-2003, 03:36 PM

A British Midland A321 (I think it was a 321) was hit by hail not long ago and landed safely even though it's nose was pretty much smashed up,

Justin

Chansen · 08-27-2003, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by justin
A British Midland A321 (I think it was a 321) was hit by hail not long ago and landed safely even though it's nose was pretty much smashed up,

Justin

I know of wind shear equipment on airliners. They really need a hail avoidance system. Damn sad and scary to probably be stuck in a storm. It is bad enough on the earth with that.

08-27-2003, 05:12 PM

Uh oh..better get macoo

DavidMich · 08-30-2003, 06:50 AM

The Tristar in question was C-FTNA, built originally for Air Canada back in '73. Hail damage caused it to be written off, was summarily parted out & scrapped.

Phugoid · 08-30-2003, 03:00 PM

Whether this crew was responsible for their foray into the hail, and that might be the case if other aircraft were deviating, they will be busy explaining their decision and actions. I will not be charitable in saying that they demonstrated superior airmanship (gender neutral) nor will I condemn them for proceeding, when in retrospect a deviation would have been the more conservative course of action.

Hail is very difficult to detect with airborne weather radar, when above the freezing level. Wet hail is the most reflective type of precipitation, while dry hail, that is completely frozen hail, does not reflect radar energy. Hail shafts are often separated from the main body of the storm by several miles. A rule of thumb is for each knot of wind at altitude the hail will be displaced 1 nautical mile.

With X-band radar (which is what most airliners use, United uses C-band) the hail will show as a tiny blip and when the radar is set to a long range, as is common in cruise, ‘twon’t show up at all.

The accidents of EAL 66, PAA 759, and DAL 191, were related to wind shear and not hail damage. Wind shear in the form of microbursts does not require a thunderstorm but merely convective activity. The Southern accident (242) is a perfect case history of flying into a radar shadow, where the precipitation is so intense that even radar energy can’t get through.

These events happen from time to time, it’s important to learn from them and not jump to conclusions. When they do happen it is necessary to remain cool like the Southern captain, who reported to ATC when he had the second engine failure: “We just lost our second engine, I don’t need to tell you the implications of this because we only have two engines.”

Romania is #1 · 08-31-2003, 03:53 AM

Are the picutres down, i cant see them?

Eddy Two · 08-31-2003, 12:56 PM

Lufthansa · 08-31-2003, 01:50 PM

EDDY IS BACK!

V1UHOH · 09-03-2003, 12:29 PM

I'm not sure about the local weather features in Switzerland, but here on the east coast any cell that puts down hail will also be putting down pretty good precip, which is unmistakable on a properly operating and operated radar. I haven't read any details on the incident so benefit of the doubt must be given to the crew. Perhaps they were avoiding the cell but encountered the hail outside the cell in visual conditions. My only encounter with hail was in bright blue sky while visually circumnavigating a cell, even while clear of the anvil.

Another interesting sidenote- it is legal to dispatch an aircraft with inoperative radar along a route where thunderstorms are forecast, so long as there is an agreement between the pilot and dispatcher that they are not REASONABLY expected. About as grey as it gets, which leads to some very interesting debates about what the word reasonable means!

On the other hand I once had a freight dog buddy of mine tell me that level 4 and 5 cells make great shortcuts! (yes this guy is still alive)

Phugoid · 09-03-2003, 08:06 PM

That is a problem with detecting hail, sometimes it is not in the core of the storm. As V1uhoh, pointed out, “My only encounter with hail was in bright blue sky while visually circumnavigating a cell, even while clear of the anvil.” I sure hope that was Easy Jets situation also, rather than flying through a red area on the radar. But there might still be the errant cowboy, even in Europe.

All in all, this aircraft doesn’t look so damaged that its return would merit the golden flying award. Not that I would accept it for an outbound flight. The award they do get though is the, glad I wasn’t there for that one.

08-27-2003, 01:44 PM	#2
marvin101001 Guest Posts: n/a	OWCH!!! Gordon... what was it?? Hail???? Lightning????

08-27-2003, 02:09 PM	#9
Lufthansa Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Location: Im MV scheint mir die Sonne aussm Arsch Age: 22 Posts: 2,513	Ouch! Wouldn´t it almost be cheaper to buy a used 737-300 to replace this one?

08-27-2003, 02:16 PM	#10
ba777-236 400SH Co-Owner Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: About a 40 minute drive from Toronto, Canada Posts: 5,573	OUCH! That's nasty! I remember a similar incident occured with an Air Transat Tristar a couple of years back - although it didn't look nearly as bad as this aircraft looks. Btw, here's a pic of the Air Transat bird: http://www.airliners.net/open.file/194114/L/ If I'm not mistaken, the plane was a total write-off. __________________ Faheem Ahmed 400 Scale Hangar Maintained Websites

08-27-2003, 02:39 PM	#11
Spectre Insane Collector Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Maryville, TN Age: 35 Posts: 1,421	Re: EasyJet vs. Mother Nature EasyJet vs. Mother Nature Nature kicks serious butt.. didn't they know that going into a thunderstorm is bad poop __________________ My collection is for sale...please look "You've never lived until you've almost died. For those who fight for it, life has a special meaning the protected will never know."

08-27-2003, 03:19 PM	#13
Chansen Complete Wacko! Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Parker, CO Posts: 3,017	I wonder how an A319 would do in those same conditions? That is a true test of an airframe. Good thing it wasn't bullets. A Mesa B-1900D had a similar experience here. Last edited by Chansen; 08-27-2003 at 03:20 PM.

08-27-2003, 01:37 PM	#1
Gordon Werner Insane Collector Join Date: Jun 1998 Location: Somewhere else Age: 37 Posts: 2,059	EasyJet vs. Mother Nature Easyjet 737 HB-III departed Aug,15 at 09:50 from Geneva, and flew 10 minutes later into a Thunderstorm. They returned to Geneva for an emergency landing.

08-27-2003, 01:45 PM	#3
Eddy Two Guest Posts: n/a	I have seen these pictures a few times over the past week (or few days) and am absolutely amazed each time I see them - not that the PLANE was able to land/fly having sustained such damage (they are, afterall, built to deal with such eventualities) but that the PILOT managed to bring the plane back to land safely. I know one pilot who deserves commendation. Bravo. They might cut back on the frills, but not on the training of their staff.

08-27-2003, 01:46 PM	#4
Mexico70 Guest Posts: n/a	Ouch...That's gotta hurt .I'd really like to see the repair bill.

08-27-2003, 01:57 PM	#6
Gordon Werner Insane Collector Join Date: Jun 1998 Location: Somewhere else Age: 37 Posts: 2,059	just hail ... and it can do this kind of damage to stationary objects ... never mind ones moving at 500+ mph.

08-27-2003, 01:58 PM	#7
24r Master Collector Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Mississauga, Ontario,Canada Age: 47 Posts: 790	Wow, amazing that the plane made it back but then again it is a Boeing. Also great job by the Captain to bring it back in one piece. Mark

08-27-2003, 02:00 PM	#8
JohnnyB Guest Posts: n/a	The dent removal guy sure is going to be busy..

08-27-2003, 03:13 PM	#12
chrisjake Senior Collector Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cleveland, OH Posts: 164	that had to be LOUD inside! chris

08-27-2003, 03:36 PM	#15
justin Insane Collector Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 2,005	A British Midland A321 (I think it was a 321) was hit by hail not long ago and landed safely even though it's nose was pretty much smashed up, Justin

08-27-2003, 05:12 PM	#17
legend airlines Guest Posts: n/a	Uh oh..better get macoo

08-30-2003, 06:50 AM	#18
DavidMich Registered User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Back in MCO! Posts: 3,626	The Tristar in question was C-FTNA, built originally for Air Canada back in '73. Hail damage caused it to be written off, was summarily parted out & scrapped. __________________ "So if man is 5, and the devil is 6, then that must make me 7,,,this honky's gone to heaven!"

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08-30-2003, 03:00 PM	#19
Phugoid Collector Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 90	Whether this crew was responsible for their foray into the hail, and that might be the case if other aircraft were deviating, they will be busy explaining their decision and actions. I will not be charitable in saying that they demonstrated superior airmanship (gender neutral) nor will I condemn them for proceeding, when in retrospect a deviation would have been the more conservative course of action. Hail is very difficult to detect with airborne weather radar, when above the freezing level. Wet hail is the most reflective type of precipitation, while dry hail, that is completely frozen hail, does not reflect radar energy. Hail shafts are often separated from the main body of the storm by several miles. A rule of thumb is for each knot of wind at altitude the hail will be displaced 1 nautical mile. With X-band radar (which is what most airliners use, United uses C-band) the hail will show as a tiny blip and when the radar is set to a long range, as is common in cruise, ‘twon’t show up at all. The accidents of EAL 66, PAA 759, and DAL 191, were related to wind shear and not hail damage. Wind shear in the form of microbursts does not require a thunderstorm but merely convective activity. The Southern accident (242) is a perfect case history of flying into a radar shadow, where the precipitation is so intense that even radar energy can’t get through. These events happen from time to time, it’s important to learn from them and not jump to conclusions. When they do happen it is necessary to remain cool like the Southern captain, who reported to ATC when he had the second engine failure: “We just lost our second engine, I don’t need to tell you the implications of this because we only have two engines.”

08-31-2003, 03:53 AM	#20
Romania is #1 Senior Collector Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 462	Are the picutres down, i cant see them? __________________ What the hell, my post, my beutiful post ther gone.

08-31-2003, 12:56 PM	#21
Eddy Two Speedbird 31 Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Hong Kong 20th-24th April Age: 25 Posts: 1,154

08-31-2003, 01:50 PM	#22
Lufthansa Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Location: Im MV scheint mir die Sonne aussm Arsch Age: 22 Posts: 2,513	EDDY IS BACK!

09-03-2003, 12:29 PM	#23
V1UHOH NARF! Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: barnstorming the 3rd world in ***** slapped retro heavy metal three holers! Age: 39 Posts: 614	I'm not sure about the local weather features in Switzerland, but here on the east coast any cell that puts down hail will also be putting down pretty good precip, which is unmistakable on a properly operating and operated radar. I haven't read any details on the incident so benefit of the doubt must be given to the crew. Perhaps they were avoiding the cell but encountered the hail outside the cell in visual conditions. My only encounter with hail was in bright blue sky while visually circumnavigating a cell, even while clear of the anvil. Another interesting sidenote- it is legal to dispatch an aircraft with inoperative radar along a route where thunderstorms are forecast, so long as there is an agreement between the pilot and dispatcher that they are not REASONABLY expected. About as grey as it gets, which leads to some very interesting debates about what the word reasonable means! On the other hand I once had a freight dog buddy of mine tell me that level 4 and 5 cells make great shortcuts! (yes this guy is still alive) __________________ This is the earth. And this is Pinky. You can tell the difference quite easily. One is a lump of inert matter hurtling blindly through the void. The other... is the earth.

09-03-2003, 08:06 PM	#24
Phugoid Collector Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 90	That is a problem with detecting hail, sometimes it is not in the core of the storm. As V1uhoh, pointed out, “My only encounter with hail was in bright blue sky while visually circumnavigating a cell, even while clear of the anvil.” I sure hope that was Easy Jets situation also, rather than flying through a red area on the radar. But there might still be the errant cowboy, even in Europe. All in all, this aircraft doesn’t look so damaged that its return would merit the golden flying award. Not that I would accept it for an outbound flight. The award they do get though is the, glad I wasn’t there for that one.