Air Canada Considering the 717

Steven De Lisser · 07-15-2003, 11:29 PM

This is a real shocker for me but apparently Air Canada is considering revamping its entire fleet in light of its recent financial problems (personally, I dont think they have a chance). The Air Tran 717 pictured below is parked in a hangar at Montreal and top executives (the idiots who got them into their current predicament), are looking over the type seriously as an option.

I wish they’d just go with 777’s, 717’s and 757’s.

Many people may not know this but a few weeks ago Air Canada’s chief leasing company almost pulled the plug on over 100 of its plane due to non-payment.

Steven

jetabout · 07-16-2003, 05:52 AM

I've heard about this. It's good news for the 717, but then, from what I can gather, Air Canada is not barely alive. Could this be part of the group purchase that Star Alliance members have been planning to do? This could mean tremendous price concession from Boeing. Should Air Canada fold, I wonder who will take its place. West Jet? CanJet? Or will US airlines be jostling for whatever is left? In any case, I hope 717 fares well, thanks to Air Canada or any of the Star Alliance (hey, one can always hope).

R. Minor · 07-16-2003, 06:20 AM

I do love the 717, so this would be music to my ears...

Spider-man · 07-16-2003, 08:54 AM

This would be part of a Star Alliance order (Lufthansa, Austrian, SAS, and Air Canada) if they go for the B717. Personally, I don't
see any of these airlines going for a B717. It doesn't really fit in
their fleet considering they have a airbus narrowbody fleet with
the exception of SAS with a few 737NGs. I see this order being a
mix of A318s and RJs from Bombardier.

9V-SVC · 07-16-2003, 09:21 AM

Good , as long its not 737 , i dont mind . I think if its the best if they operate B717, A319/A320/A321 , A330 and B777 . 3 different type of planes but they can do the right routes nicely .

I wished more operators operate B717s rather then the ugly 737s . (Sorry i just detest the plane ) .

Rumours about the 717-300X , i hope that will come true !!! .

Chansen · 07-16-2003, 09:31 AM

These would be ideal. I like the B-737 series but for as many operators of the B-717-200 this would be interesting. Too bad the MD-90 was so limited in sales.

Did a search on this and see that at Airliners.net this discussion has been going on for awhile.: http://www.airliners.net/discussions....main/1128055/

Steven De Lisser · 07-16-2003, 10:26 AM

Not completely true Spider-man. Another piece of information I’ve gotten through the grapevine is that Air Canada is unhappy with the cost per plane from Bombardier and are considering Embraers as a replacement because of a better package deal.

Dont know if this is just politicking on their part to get the price tag down or not.

Steven

Spider-man · 07-16-2003, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Steven De Lisser
Not completely true Spider-man. Another piece of information I’ve gotten through the grapevine is that Air Canada is unhappy with the cost per plane from Bombardier and are considering Embraers as a replacement because of a better package deal.

Dont know if this is just politicking on their part to get the price tag down or not.

Steven

Oh really. If Air Canada really do go with Embraer, that would be
a huge blow to Bombardier! There has obviously been a lot of
disputes between Canada and Brazil regarding the regional jet
sales. Could the Canadian government prevent Air Canada from
buying Embraers?

07-16-2003, 03:26 PM

What I'd like to know is if Air Canada goes for 717s and Embraers, exactly where would the money come from, of which AC has none?

1:400 Man · 07-16-2003, 04:07 PM

GE Capital has agreed to reduce the lease rates on the 100 aircraft they lease to Air Canada currently, Air Canada is returning some GE Aircraft including the B747-400's, GE also agreed to finance/lease upto 43 Regional Jets to Air Canada and provide upto $600 million Canadian as exit Debt.

Also Air Canada anounced today they are now ready to look at exit financing through equity (New Shares) for upto $700 million Canadian, and there are apparently interested parties.

So I see Air Canada coming out of Bankrupcy a better airline and hopefully real soon profitable.

jetabout · 07-17-2003, 05:03 AM

Boeing has formally offered the B717-300, stretching the 717-200 by five frames, bringing max capacity to 130. This in effort to get the Star Alliance group order. Good news for the 717-line. Let's hope Star go for it.

R. Minor · 07-17-2003, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jetabout
Boeing has formally offered the B717-300, stretching the 717-200 by five frames, bringing max capacity to 130. This in effort to get the Star Alliance group order. Good news for the 717-line. Let's hope Star go for it.

Really? I haven't heard about that. Glad to see them stretching the 717...

jetabout · 07-17-2003, 06:33 AM

It's in the latest Flight International. And a correction, it will be increased by 9 (not 5 frames) which translates to 5 additional seatrows.

07-17-2003, 12:54 PM

Could that mean if air tran, wanted to purchase the propsed 717-300x could theyh convert there orders from the 737-700, to the 717-300X?

R. Minor · 07-18-2003, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Romania is #1
Could that mean if air tran, wanted to purchase the propsed 717-300x could theyh convert there orders from the 737-700, to the 717-300X?

I guess if the 717-300 has the range they need, then I would think it would be wise for AirTran to switch the order from the 737NG to the new 717-300... Just my opinion though.

ba777-236 · 07-18-2003, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jetabout
Boeing has formally offered the B717-300, stretching the 717-200 by five frames, bringing max capacity to 130. This in effort to get the Star Alliance group order. Good news for the 717-line. Let's hope Star go for it.

Really? Interesting. I wonder; if Boeing did have plans for stretching the 717, then why did Air Tran not wait on this, instead of ordering the 73G's?

As to Air Canada ordering the 717, as I much as I'd like this idea, I just can't help thinking that it really doesn't fit in their fleet.

Come to think of it, I don't think it could really fit in SAS's, Lufthansa's or Austrian's fleet either. Maybe this is just a tactic to get Airbus to reduce their A318/319 prices?

07-18-2003, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jetabout
It's in the latest Flight International. And a correction, it will be increased by 9 (not 5 frames) which translates to 5 additional seatrows.

I looked but didn't see the article (I only checked the web site) ...

jetabout · 07-18-2003, 01:20 PM

Hi Drew, I don't know if you subscribe to their magazine, but if you do then you will be able to read the news online. Go to their site and under the "This Issue" tab in the Air Transport section you can find the article. Titled "Streched 717 the star in Boeing alliance proposal" on page 2. You need a password to be able to retrieve the article.

jetabout · 07-24-2003, 12:31 PM

For those curious to see an Air Canada 717...

http://www.diecastaircraftforum.com/...threadid=30067

07-24-2003, 02:46 PM

Thanks

N1011 · 07-24-2003, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jetabout
Boeing has formally offered the B717-300, stretching the 717-200 by five frames, bringing max capacity to 130. This in effort to get the Star Alliance group order. Good news for the 717-line. Let's hope Star go for it.

Boeing will not go the trouble of research and development of a B713 for only AirTran but firm orders from the Star Alliance is a different story. Question is how does this affect the 737 program? A business never creates another product to compete with one of their own, but then again this is in Long Beach not Everett. This will be the make or break deal for the 717. Good luck to them! Robert

ba777-236 · 07-24-2003, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by N1011
Question is how does this affect the 737 program?

I doubt it'll really hurt the 737. The smallest NG 737 (the 600) seats 150 people. As posted above, the maxium for the 717-300 would be 130. And to top that, the range would be quite different. The 736 flies roughly 5,600 kms - whereas the 717 has a range of half that.

If ya ask me, a 713 would actually help Boeing diversify their fleet.

07-16-2003, 05:52 AM	#2
jetabout Senior Collector Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 473	I've heard about this. It's good news for the 717, but then, from what I can gather, Air Canada is not barely alive. Could this be part of the group purchase that Star Alliance members have been planning to do? This could mean tremendous price concession from Boeing. Should Air Canada fold, I wonder who will take its place. West Jet? CanJet? Or will US airlines be jostling for whatever is left? In any case, I hope 717 fares well, thanks to Air Canada or any of the Star Alliance (hey, one can always hope). __________________ Live in colours http://www.freewebs.com/jetabout

07-16-2003, 06:20 AM	#3
R. Minor Mr. Moderator Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Orlando Age: 35 Posts: 4,426	I do love the 717, so this would be music to my ears... __________________ Ron ~ MCO Fly Airbus Jets...

07-16-2003, 08:54 AM	#4
Spider-man Insane Collector Join Date: May 2002 Location: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada, North America, Earth, Milky Way, Universe Posts: 1,636	This would be part of a Star Alliance order (Lufthansa, Austrian, SAS, and Air Canada) if they go for the B717. Personally, I don't see any of these airlines going for a B717. It doesn't really fit in their fleet considering they have a airbus narrowbody fleet with the exception of SAS with a few 737NGs. I see this order being a mix of A318s and RJs from Bombardier. __________________ Your Friendly Neighborhood Spider-man

07-16-2003, 09:21 AM	#5
9V-SVC AirBoeingBus Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Singapore Posts: 4,587	Good , as long its not 737 , i dont mind . I think if its the best if they operate B717, A319/A320/A321 , A330 and B777 . 3 different type of planes but they can do the right routes nicely . I wished more operators operate B717s rather then the ugly 737s . (Sorry i just detest the plane ) . Rumours about the 717-300X , i hope that will come true !!! . __________________ My jetphotos.net photos Plane pictures.net photos Let's welcome Boeing newest product, the Boeing 7E7.

07-16-2003, 09:31 AM	#6
Chansen Insane Collector Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Parker, CO Posts: 2,883	Air Canada had DC-9-30's not to long ago. These would be ideal. I like the B-737 series but for as many operators of the B-717-200 this would be interesting. Too bad the MD-90 was so limited in sales. Did a search on this and see that at Airliners.net this discussion has been going on for awhile.: http://www.airliners.net/discussions....main/1128055/

07-15-2003, 11:29 PM	#1
Steven De Lisser Master Collector Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 772	Air Canada Considering the 717 This is a real shocker for me but apparently Air Canada is considering revamping its entire fleet in light of its recent financial problems (personally, I dont think they have a chance). The Air Tran 717 pictured below is parked in a hangar at Montreal and top executives (the idiots who got them into their current predicament), are looking over the type seriously as an option. I wish they’d just go with 777’s, 717’s and 757’s. Many people may not know this but a few weeks ago Air Canada’s chief leasing company almost pulled the plug on over 100 of its plane due to non-payment. Steven

07-16-2003, 10:26 AM	#7
Steven De Lisser Master Collector Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 772	Not completely true Spider-man. Another piece of information I’ve gotten through the grapevine is that Air Canada is unhappy with the cost per plane from Bombardier and are considering Embraers as a replacement because of a better package deal. Dont know if this is just politicking on their part to get the price tag down or not. Steven Last edited by Steven De Lisser; 07-16-2003 at 10:29 AM.

07-16-2003, 03:26 PM	#9
NYCAAer Guest Posts: n/a	What I'd like to know is if Air Canada goes for 717s and Embraers, exactly where would the money come from, of which AC has none?

07-16-2003, 04:07 PM	#10
1:400 Man Senior Collector Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: White Rock Age: 27 Posts: 162	GE Capital has agreed to reduce the lease rates on the 100 aircraft they lease to Air Canada currently, Air Canada is returning some GE Aircraft including the B747-400's, GE also agreed to finance/lease upto 43 Regional Jets to Air Canada and provide upto $600 million Canadian as exit Debt. Also Air Canada anounced today they are now ready to look at exit financing through equity (New Shares) for upto $700 million Canadian, and there are apparently interested parties. So I see Air Canada coming out of Bankrupcy a better airline and hopefully real soon profitable. __________________ We need more Air Canada Models. How Bout an Air Canada B777-200LR and when the B787 model is done, an Air Canada B787. Also how bout a Air Canada B767-200 New Colours and Polished Metal Schemes. How Bout a Air Canada B737-200 Drink Beer

07-17-2003, 05:03 AM	#11
jetabout Senior Collector Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 473	Boeing has formally offered the B717-300, stretching the 717-200 by five frames, bringing max capacity to 130. This in effort to get the Star Alliance group order. Good news for the 717-line. Let's hope Star go for it. __________________ Live in colours http://www.freewebs.com/jetabout

07-17-2003, 06:33 AM	#13
jetabout Senior Collector Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 473	It's in the latest Flight International. And a correction, it will be increased by 9 (not 5 frames) which translates to 5 additional seatrows. __________________ Live in colours http://www.freewebs.com/jetabout

07-17-2003, 12:54 PM	#14
Romania is #1 Guest Posts: n/a	Could that mean if air tran, wanted to purchase the propsed 717-300x could theyh convert there orders from the 737-700, to the 717-300X?

07-18-2003, 01:20 PM	#18
jetabout Senior Collector Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 473	Hi Drew, I don't know if you subscribe to their magazine, but if you do then you will be able to read the news online. Go to their site and under the "This Issue" tab in the Air Transport section you can find the article. Titled "Streched 717 the star in Boeing alliance proposal" on page 2. You need a password to be able to retrieve the article. __________________ Live in colours http://www.freewebs.com/jetabout

07-24-2003, 12:31 PM	#19
jetabout Senior Collector Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 473	For those curious to see an Air Canada 717... http://www.diecastaircraftforum.com/...threadid=30067 __________________ Live in colours http://www.freewebs.com/jetabout

07-24-2003, 02:46 PM	#20
Presidential Guest Posts: n/a	Thanks

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread: