Sad day in STL

Bill G · 06-30-2003, 08:34 PM

This is the last day of employment for all the former TWA flight attendants and a lot of the pilots.

A lot of tears and hugs at Lambert Field today. It's not only the end of a career for these people but the end of a lifestyle as well.

In over 20 years in this industry I have seen a lot of things but never anything as pathetic as how AA has treated these people.

Their slogan was "Two great airlines, one great future" what a joke.

The former TWA employees have a lawsuit pending against AA's unions. I hope they win it.

Bill G

Hernan Matos · 06-30-2003, 08:36 PM

What can you expect from AA? shame on them.

KJC · 06-30-2003, 11:02 PM

Very sorry to hear that. It's open season on the working man everywhere in America!

07-01-2003, 04:39 AM

Like no other industry in the world, your colleagues at an airline become like your family. You spend days on end with the same colleagues, you travel the world with them and you share stories of what the man in 22F just asked you for.

Like no other industry in the world, the loss of a long-term job with an airline is like someone completely erasing one of the most important and largest parts of your life.

There will be a lot of very upset people out there in St. Louis today but these are also people with many a story to tell. Stories that will make you laugh and stories that will make you cry.

Though no longer with the airline, these are people who will have experienced more in their time with the carrier than most normal people will experience in their entire lives.

Be sorry for them that their jobs have been taken from them, but at the same time be grateful that for the past thirty years, we have been looked after by some of the very best staff that the industry has to offer.

Best wishes to all former TWA staff.

07-01-2003, 11:22 AM

The former TWA flight attendants lost the court case yesterday morning when the Federal Court of New York ruled in favor of American and the APFA, the AA flight attendant union.

The Court determined that the TWA F/As could not satify any of the 3 standards that they would have to meet to justify an award of an injunction (to stop their July 2nd furloughs):

1. They could not demonstrate that they will be irreparably harmed if an injunction is not granted

2. They could not demonstrate that they were likely to succeed on the merits of their claims against APFA and American

3. They could not demonstrate that the balance of hardships weighed in their favor

Please note that this is not my personal opinion of the matter (or should I say debacle), but what the court ruled. Quite frankly, I was surprised that when AMR acquired the assets of TWA, the F/As were stapled to the bottom of the seniority list. I was expecting there to be some amount of seniority given to the former TWA people, such as 1 year of seniority at AA for every 4 at TWA, as one union rep at APFA whom I know personally had proposed, but her proposal was shot down.

One thing I have learned at my 15 years at AA is that you have to take care of yourself, because the company will NEVER look out for you, no matter how much loyalty, service and hard work you give them.

Bill G, if it's any consolation at all for the former TWA F/As, let them know we're working turnarounds with sit-time to LHR and CDG from JFK, BOS and ORD this month! That came as a shock when we saw the bids for JULY!

Bill G · 07-01-2003, 12:44 PM

Kevin

When Ozark merged with TWA we were given "Date of Hire".

When Allegheny merged with Mohawk they were given "Date of Hire". The same with the other mergers that make up US Airways employees today. When US Airways bought the Trump Shuttle, many of these flight attendants were former Eastern employees who gave up their seniority to work for Trump. These employees were given back their original Eastern seniority and merged into our senioity list by again "Date of Hire". Anything less is an insult.

I'm sure I come across as bitter. I am. These people were given no consideration by APFA. Pathetic when you pay union dues when your not being fairly represented.

Bill G

Chansen · 07-01-2003, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hernan Matos
What can you expect from AA? shame on them.

Hernan Matos · 07-01-2003, 06:20 PM

Im glad im not working for that'company'!

R. Minor · 07-01-2003, 08:16 PM

Two Great Airlines indeed...

Sad, very sad news...

Lufthansa · 07-02-2003, 08:28 AM

TWA will rule forever!

Just wanted to let you know.

07-02-2003, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Craig H. Hansen

The Air Cal flight attendants were given full seniority for some reason unknown to me because it was one year before I started, in 1987. The former Reno F/As were put at the bottom of the seniority list in 1999. Why the 2 instances were different, I don't know.

Chansen · 07-02-2003, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NYCAAer
The Air Cal flight attendants were given full seniority for some reason unknown to me because it was one year before I started, in 1987. The former Reno F/As were put at the bottom of the seniority list in 1999. Why the 2 instances were different, I don't know.

Who were the Presidents of the company during those time periods? I wonder if that had anything to do with that. Never knew full or right story, thanks. Sorry to hear about AA's current situration. Wondering if you know a pilot by the name of Mike Murray. A 757-200 pilot and friend of mine.

07-02-2003, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bill G
Kevin

When Ozark merged with TWA we were given "Date of Hire".

When Allegheny merged with Mohawk they were given "Date of Hire". The same with the other mergers that make up US Airways employees today. When US Airways bought the Trump Shuttle, many of these flight attendants were former Eastern employees who gave up their seniority to work for Trump. These employees were given back their original Eastern seniority and merged into our senioity list by again "Date of Hire". Anything less is an insult.

I'm sure I come across as bitter. I am. These people were given no consideration by APFA. Pathetic when you pay union dues when your not being fairly represented.

Bill G

The key word here is "merger." According to the AA propaganda during the Carty administration (again, I emphasize, not my opinion here), AMR bought "virtually all of the assets of TWA," and the employees "will be offered employment with American." The purchase of TWA was likened to Delta's purchase of Pan Am's continental European routes, where the former Pan Am flight attendants were given the opportunity to go to Delta, and were given 1 year of seniority at DL for every 7 years of service at PA.

Bill G · 07-02-2003, 06:30 PM

The key word is "fair". The Trump Shuttle was purchased by US Airways and as I stated earlier The Trump employees (all their employees) were given their original Eastern "date of hire" and merged their seniority accordingly.

Most of the original Eastern flight attendants were senior to me but I was happy they got all of their seniority that they deserved. I can feel good working with these people knowing that they were treated fairly.

Bill G

Tony Sepanski · 07-02-2003, 07:01 PM

This truly is a travesty, but is it any different from what has gone on in any other industry? I've worked in positions where the company 'fired' us and we had the option to be re-hired by an "employee staffing company" (re: temp agency) for 1/3 our previous pay and no benefits (I told them to stick it).

Or there was the time the entire staff at the company I worked for was forced to re-interview for our positions we had been working for anywhere from 1 to 25 years, depending on the employee.

And, of course, there are the workers who on a daily basis are 'right-sized' and 'out-sourced' out of their good paying jobs. Not to mention the businesses that move south or east of the border for workers they can pay $.25 / hour.

Unfortunately, poor management - labor relations are not the prime domain of the airline industry, although you guys have had the dirty end of the stick for some time now.

------

Bill - was part of the issue with TWA employees not getting seniority because the AA unions were against it? (I'm not sure this is actually correct, which is why I'm asking...)

Bill G · 07-02-2003, 07:50 PM

Tony

From what I have been told from former TWA and "Native" AA employees was that AA let the their unions decide on the seniority issue.

Bill G

07-03-2003, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Craig H. Hansen
Who were the Presidents of the company during those time periods? I wonder if that had anything to do with that. Never knew full or right story, thanks. Sorry to hear about AA's current situration. Wondering if you know a pilot by the name of Mike Murray. A 757-200 pilot and friend of mine.

No, sorry, I don't know your pilot friend.

Bob Crandall was CEO during the Air Cal acquisition, and of course we had Carty during the Reno Air and TWA buyouts. Rumor had it before 9-11, Carty had his eyes on Alaska Airlines next! I'm happy that didn't happen.

Also, of note, when AA bought Trans Caribbean in 1971, the former TCA employees were given full seniority.

Chansen · 07-03-2003, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NYCAAer

Bob Crandall was CEO during the Air Cal acquisition, and of course we had Carty during the Reno Air and TWA buyouts. Rumor had it before 9-11, Carty had his eyes on Alaska Airlines next! I'm happy that didn't happen.

I am also glad Alaska was not taken over. As the others has great history and would be in retrospect a great loss. Air Cal and Reno went to Alaska and funny how it was how both were bought up. Also I think American wanted gate slots where ever these former airlines went into for a time anyway. Yep Alaska not as an airline anymore would be a great loss.

07-06-2003, 01:04 AM

TWA will always kick AA's butt!

07-15-2003, 10:52 PM

http://biz.yahoo.com/djus/030715/1451001205_1.html

06-30-2003, 08:34 PM	#1
Bill G Insane Collector Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: St. Charles, MO Posts: 1,248	Sad day in STL This is the last day of employment for all the former TWA flight attendants and a lot of the pilots. A lot of tears and hugs at Lambert Field today. It's not only the end of a career for these people but the end of a lifestyle as well. In over 20 years in this industry I have seen a lot of things but never anything as pathetic as how AA has treated these people. Their slogan was "Two great airlines, one great future" what a joke. The former TWA employees have a lawsuit pending against AA's unions. I hope they win it. Bill G __________________ *Ozark Flies Your Way* FEES DON'T FLY AT SOUTHWEST

06-30-2003, 08:36 PM	#2
Hernan Matos Master Collector Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Orlando,Fl.32807 Age: 42 Posts: 530	What can you expect from AA? shame on them. __________________ 'Whatever it takes' Southwest airlines

06-30-2003, 11:02 PM	#3
KJC Insane Collector Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Pasadena, CA Age: 37 Posts: 2,529	Very sorry to hear that. It's open season on the working man everywhere in America! __________________ The white zones are for the immediate loading and unloading of passengers only. No parking!

07-01-2003, 12:44 PM	#6
Bill G Insane Collector Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: St. Charles, MO Posts: 1,248	Date of Hire Kevin When Ozark merged with TWA we were given "Date of Hire". When Allegheny merged with Mohawk they were given "Date of Hire". The same with the other mergers that make up US Airways employees today. When US Airways bought the Trump Shuttle, many of these flight attendants were former Eastern employees who gave up their seniority to work for Trump. These employees were given back their original Eastern seniority and merged into our senioity list by again "Date of Hire". Anything less is an insult. I'm sure I come across as bitter. I am. These people were given no consideration by APFA. Pathetic when you pay union dues when your not being fairly represented. Bill G __________________ *Ozark Flies Your Way* FEES DON'T FLY AT SOUTHWEST

07-01-2003, 06:20 PM	#8
Hernan Matos Master Collector Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Orlando,Fl.32807 Age: 42 Posts: 530	Im glad im not working for that'company'! __________________ 'Whatever it takes' Southwest airlines

07-01-2003, 04:39 AM	#4
Eddy Two Guest Posts: n/a	Like no other industry in the world, your colleagues at an airline become like your family. You spend days on end with the same colleagues, you travel the world with them and you share stories of what the man in 22F just asked you for. Like no other industry in the world, the loss of a long-term job with an airline is like someone completely erasing one of the most important and largest parts of your life. There will be a lot of very upset people out there in St. Louis today but these are also people with many a story to tell. Stories that will make you laugh and stories that will make you cry. Though no longer with the airline, these are people who will have experienced more in their time with the carrier than most normal people will experience in their entire lives. Be sorry for them that their jobs have been taken from them, but at the same time be grateful that for the past thirty years, we have been looked after by some of the very best staff that the industry has to offer. Best wishes to all former TWA staff.

07-01-2003, 11:22 AM	#5
NYCAAer Guest Posts: n/a	The former TWA flight attendants lost the court case yesterday morning when the Federal Court of New York ruled in favor of American and the APFA, the AA flight attendant union. The Court determined that the TWA F/As could not satify any of the 3 standards that they would have to meet to justify an award of an injunction (to stop their July 2nd furloughs): 1. They could not demonstrate that they will be irreparably harmed if an injunction is not granted 2. They could not demonstrate that they were likely to succeed on the merits of their claims against APFA and American 3. They could not demonstrate that the balance of hardships weighed in their favor Please note that this is not my personal opinion of the matter (or should I say debacle), but what the court ruled. Quite frankly, I was surprised that when AMR acquired the assets of TWA, the F/As were stapled to the bottom of the seniority list. I was expecting there to be some amount of seniority given to the former TWA people, such as 1 year of seniority at AA for every 4 at TWA, as one union rep at APFA whom I know personally had proposed, but her proposal was shot down. One thing I have learned at my 15 years at AA is that you have to take care of yourself, because the company will NEVER look out for you, no matter how much loyalty, service and hard work you give them. Bill G, if it's any consolation at all for the former TWA F/As, let them know we're working turnarounds with sit-time to LHR and CDG from JFK, BOS and ORD this month! That came as a shock when we saw the bids for JULY!

07-01-2003, 08:16 PM	#9
R. Minor Mr. Moderator Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Orlando Age: 35 Posts: 4,426	Pathetic... Two Great Airlines indeed... Sad, very sad news... __________________ Ron ~ MCO Fly Airbus Jets...

07-02-2003, 08:28 AM	#10
Lufthansa Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Location: Im MV scheint mir die Sonne aussm Arsch Age: 22 Posts: 2,513	TWA will rule forever! Just wanted to let you know.

07-02-2003, 06:30 PM	#14
Bill G Insane Collector Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: St. Charles, MO Posts: 1,248	The key word is "fair". The Trump Shuttle was purchased by US Airways and as I stated earlier The Trump employees (all their employees) were given their original Eastern "date of hire" and merged their seniority accordingly. Most of the original Eastern flight attendants were senior to me but I was happy they got all of their seniority that they deserved. I can feel good working with these people knowing that they were treated fairly. Bill G __________________ *Ozark Flies Your Way* FEES DON'T FLY AT SOUTHWEST Last edited by Bill G; 07-03-2003 at 09:10 PM.

07-02-2003, 07:01 PM	#15
Tony Sepanski Master Collector Join Date: May 2000 Location: Seattle, WA, USA Posts: 798	This truly is a travesty, but is it any different from what has gone on in any other industry? I've worked in positions where the company 'fired' us and we had the option to be re-hired by an "employee staffing company" (re: temp agency) for 1/3 our previous pay and no benefits (I told them to stick it). Or there was the time the entire staff at the company I worked for was forced to re-interview for our positions we had been working for anywhere from 1 to 25 years, depending on the employee. And, of course, there are the workers who on a daily basis are 'right-sized' and 'out-sourced' out of their good paying jobs. Not to mention the businesses that move south or east of the border for workers they can pay $.25 / hour. Unfortunately, poor management - labor relations are not the prime domain of the airline industry, although you guys have had the dirty end of the stick for some time now. ------ Bill - was part of the issue with TWA employees not getting seniority because the AA unions were against it? (I'm not sure this is actually correct, which is why I'm asking...)

07-02-2003, 07:50 PM	#16
Bill G Insane Collector Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: St. Charles, MO Posts: 1,248	TWA/AA Tony From what I have been told from former TWA and "Native" AA employees was that AA let the their unions decide on the seniority issue. Bill G __________________ *Ozark Flies Your Way* FEES DON'T FLY AT SOUTHWEST

07-06-2003, 01:04 AM	#19
Silent Bob Guest Posts: n/a	TWA will always kick AA's butt!

07-15-2003, 10:52 PM	#20
TWA Jetstream Guest Posts: n/a	Article about American at STL http://biz.yahoo.com/djus/030715/1451001205_1.html

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