Fokker 100?

Lufthansa · 06-14-2003, 06:11 AM

I have just received my new jp airline-fleets international 2003/04 (great book, as always!) and I saw that so many airlines (American, US Airways, Korean Air, bmi,...) have already retired their Fokker 100s and every of these airlines is willing to sell their Fokkers 100s.
Why are they doing this?
Wouldn´t all of these Fokkers be a good replacement for Northwest´s DC-9s?

06-14-2003, 12:47 PM

I can't say for the other airlines, but at American it was because they weren't economical to operate for 3 reasons:

1. The fact that Fokker is no longer in business makes it difficult to service the aircraft; getting parts, etc., etc.

2.Too expensive to operate from a labor perspective. AA's configuration of the F-100 seats just 87 people. With what they pay in pilot and flight attendant salaries, even with the huge concession package in place the unions approved last April, it still costs AA more to operate than a CRJ-700 in its American Eagle division.

3. Fleet simplification- AA is streamlining its fleet to 6 types- 777, 767, A300, 757, 737-800 and MD-80. It was also expensive to maintain so many fleet types- in the past couple of years, AA has retired the DC-10, MD-11, MD-87, MD-90, 727-200 and 717-200 from its fleet. It saves a lot on parts inventory, crew training, and mechanic training. Although major networks carriers can't simplify their fleets as much as a low-cost like Southwest, because they operate in so many different types of markets, it makes the day-to-day operation more economical.

American is in the process of retiring its F-100s at the rate of one per week until they are gone. There were 75 in the fleet originally- by the 3rd Q of 2004, they will be phased out.

I would assume the other carriers have phased out their F-100s for many of the same reasons.

Lufthansa · 06-14-2003, 02:41 PM

I see!
Then it makes sense to retire them.
BUT they are all way to young for dying in the desert, so they need a new occupation!

richie154 · 06-14-2003, 08:58 PM

also, i hear the F-100s main gear like to snap every now and then.

Sentinel Chicken · 06-15-2003, 01:02 AM

They can always be recycled as Dutch Ovens.

airbelgium · 06-15-2003, 09:12 AM

I do believe there will be new customers for the F-100. One airline in Germany (called Germania) is leasing 17 of the ex USAir aircraft which were parked in the desert (at Mojave).
Talking about early retirement, I was talking to a Boeing crew yesterday flying a 777-200 from Frankfurt to the USA for storage in the desert. Wouldn't say wich airline it was from though.

Lufthansa · 06-15-2003, 10:34 AM

I think I know which 777 you mean: It´s that former 777 of Kalifa, almost all of their planes are stored in Germany or Italy (i.e an ex-Kalifa A-340 200 is stored at SXF)
If this is the plane you mean, it is one that belonged to British Airways before it came to Kalifa.

pi737 · 06-17-2003, 01:42 AM

In my airline career I have flown the BE-99, DHC-8, B-737(200,300,400), B-727, B757, B767, FK-28, FK-100 and the A320 series. The FK-100 was the worst jet of the bunch. It was hot, crowded, slow rate of climb, slow cruise and very unreliable. The FK-28 was at least pretty reliable. Most of ther really weird things I have happen in an airplane were in FK-100s. Our maint. folks said the parts were hard to get and very expensive. USAirways used Chapter 11 to walk away from them.

Tony

Sentinel Chicken · 06-17-2003, 09:43 AM

Some of the nicknames for the Fokker 100:

"If It's Dutch, It Ain't Much"
"Dutch Oven"
"Fisher Price Junk Jet"
"Barbie Plastic Dream Jet"

Supposedly the only current aircraft that can rival the A340 in crappy climb performance is the Fokker 100...

Lufthansa · 06-17-2003, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sentinel Chicken
Some of the nicknames for the Fokker 100:

"If It's Dutch, It Ain't Much"
"Dutch Oven"
"Fisher Price Junk Jet"
"Barbie Plastic Dream Jet"

Supposedly the only current aircraft that can rival the A340 in crappy climb performance is the Fokker 100...

Bill G · 06-18-2003, 03:59 PM

I for one was not sorry to see USAirways retire the fleet. I have worked more than my fair share of aircraft types with Ozark, TWA and USAir/ US Airways and the F-100 was my least favorite along with the L-1011.

Kind of an over glorified RJ.

Bill G

Chansen · 06-18-2003, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bill G
I for one was not sorry to see USAirways retire the fleet. I have worked more than my fair share of aircraft types with Ozark, TWA and USAir/ US Airways and the F-100 was my least favorite along with the L-1011.

Kind of an over glorified RJ.

Bill G

State that to David and see what reaction you get!

Bill G · 06-18-2003, 06:04 PM

Craig

Yeah, no kidding!

.

Bill G

pi737 · 06-18-2003, 06:10 PM

Bill G., where have you been? Look for me if you fly any of the extra trips on the little bus with CLT crews.

Tony

Bill G · 06-18-2003, 06:17 PM

Hey Tony

Long time......

Got a couple of extra trips on the Airbus next month. SFO redeyes. Believe it or not I'll probably fly by block trips for the month. How unusual.

Bill G

pi737 · 06-19-2003, 10:13 AM

Bill,

I'll be flying the short redeyes to SFO next month. We go out in the morning have 12 hrs out there then fly the redeye back. Not much of a trip, but with vacation, I will only be gone from the kids 4 nights in the month. I'll look for you in the airport!

Tony

Bill G · 06-19-2003, 10:42 AM

Tony

Mine are the long layovers. Had the short SFO redeyes last month. Worked the morning flight out of PHL then deadheaded back.

Bill G

Hernan Matos · 06-19-2003, 12:42 PM

Is Mexicana still using their fokkers?

Lufthansa · 06-19-2003, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hernan Matos
Is Mexicana still using their fokkers?

Yes, they are!
And I think they don´t have some plans of retiring them.

Hernan Matos · 06-19-2003, 04:21 PM

I still remember then. I just hate the cargo belly on that plane.I used to work on them before i joined Southwest.

Lufthansa · 06-20-2003, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hernan Matos
I still remember then. I just hate the cargo belly on that plane.I used to work on them before i joined Southwest.

I really think working for Southwest is much better and more interesting than working for Mexicana, isn´t it?

Hernan Matos · 06-20-2003, 09:02 AM

Not everything was bad with Mexicana. especially their flight attendants.Ay Chihuahua!

Stanman · 06-21-2003, 06:56 PM

American was also having to manufacture its own parts to keep the Fokkers flying. Can get very expensive. The landing gear weakness was identified and addressed although not always 100% satisfactorily as we saw last year.

F27 Bonanza · 06-25-2003, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hernan Matos
I just hate the cargo belly on that plane.I used to work on them before i joined Southwest.

What a small world. I used to work the F-100s at American before I went to Southwest also. I'm 6'2 so those bins were tiny, I remember I would be on my back stacking bags because there was not enough room to sit up in the bin. I used to be glad to see a MD-80 come in, at least you had some room to move around in. All in all the Fokker was nice to fly on but was not ramper friendly by all means.

Greg

06-14-2003, 06:11 AM	#1
Lufthansa Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Location: Im MV scheint mir die Sonne aussm Arsch Age: 22 Posts: 2,513	Fokker 100? I have just received my new jp airline-fleets international 2003/04 (great book, as always!) and I saw that so many airlines (American, US Airways, Korean Air, bmi,...) have already retired their Fokker 100s and every of these airlines is willing to sell their Fokkers 100s. Why are they doing this? Wouldn´t all of these Fokkers be a good replacement for Northwest´s DC-9s?

06-14-2003, 08:58 PM	#4
richie154 Retired Hookah Master Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Valley of Heart's Delight Age: 24 Posts: 3,719	also, i hear the F-100s main gear like to snap every now and then. __________________ The Devil can cite Scripture for his purpose. An evil soul producing holy witness is like a villian with a smiling cheek, a goodly apple rotten at the heart. Oh, what a goodly outside falsehood hath! Private Pilot: 10/20/2005 Private Multi Engine: 05/09/2008 The more things change, the more Mesa still sucks.

06-15-2003, 01:02 AM	#5
Sentinel Chicken Go-Getters Go Ozark Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: DFW/THE GREAT STATE OF TEXAS Posts: 4,167	They can always be recycled as Dutch Ovens. __________________ *Piss on noise abatement!*

06-15-2003, 09:12 AM	#6
airbelgium Senior Collector Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Lanaken-Belgium Age: 33 Posts: 437	I do believe there will be new customers for the F-100. One airline in Germany (called Germania) is leasing 17 of the ex USAir aircraft which were parked in the desert (at Mojave). Talking about early retirement, I was talking to a Boeing crew yesterday flying a 777-200 from Frankfurt to the USA for storage in the desert. Wouldn't say wich airline it was from though. __________________ Ive "Aviation Safety is never something you get to; It's always something you're striving toward"

06-17-2003, 09:43 AM	#9
Sentinel Chicken Go-Getters Go Ozark Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: DFW/THE GREAT STATE OF TEXAS Posts: 4,167	Some of the nicknames for the Fokker 100: "If It's Dutch, It Ain't Much" "Dutch Oven" "Fisher Price Junk Jet" "Barbie Plastic Dream Jet" Supposedly the only current aircraft that can rival the A340 in crappy climb performance is the Fokker 100... __________________ *Piss on noise abatement!*

06-14-2003, 12:47 PM	#2
NYCAAer Guest Posts: n/a	I can't say for the other airlines, but at American it was because they weren't economical to operate for 3 reasons: 1. The fact that Fokker is no longer in business makes it difficult to service the aircraft; getting parts, etc., etc. 2.Too expensive to operate from a labor perspective. AA's configuration of the F-100 seats just 87 people. With what they pay in pilot and flight attendant salaries, even with the huge concession package in place the unions approved last April, it still costs AA more to operate than a CRJ-700 in its American Eagle division. 3. Fleet simplification- AA is streamlining its fleet to 6 types- 777, 767, A300, 757, 737-800 and MD-80. It was also expensive to maintain so many fleet types- in the past couple of years, AA has retired the DC-10, MD-11, MD-87, MD-90, 727-200 and 717-200 from its fleet. It saves a lot on parts inventory, crew training, and mechanic training. Although major networks carriers can't simplify their fleets as much as a low-cost like Southwest, because they operate in so many different types of markets, it makes the day-to-day operation more economical. American is in the process of retiring its F-100s at the rate of one per week until they are gone. There were 75 in the fleet originally- by the 3rd Q of 2004, they will be phased out. I would assume the other carriers have phased out their F-100s for many of the same reasons.

06-14-2003, 02:41 PM	#3
Lufthansa Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Location: Im MV scheint mir die Sonne aussm Arsch Age: 22 Posts: 2,513	I see! Then it makes sense to retire them. BUT they are all way to young for dying in the desert, so they need a new occupation!

06-15-2003, 10:34 AM	#7
Lufthansa Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Location: Im MV scheint mir die Sonne aussm Arsch Age: 22 Posts: 2,513	I think I know which 777 you mean: It´s that former 777 of Kalifa, almost all of their planes are stored in Germany or Italy (i.e an ex-Kalifa A-340 200 is stored at SXF) If this is the plane you mean, it is one that belonged to British Airways before it came to Kalifa.

06-17-2003, 01:42 AM	#8
pi737 Collector Join Date: May 2000 Location: Jamestown, NC USA Age: 43 Posts: 138	In my airline career I have flown the BE-99, DHC-8, B-737(200,300,400), B-727, B757, B767, FK-28, FK-100 and the A320 series. The FK-100 was the worst jet of the bunch. It was hot, crowded, slow rate of climb, slow cruise and very unreliable. The FK-28 was at least pretty reliable. Most of ther really weird things I have happen in an airplane were in FK-100s. Our maint. folks said the parts were hard to get and very expensive. USAirways used Chapter 11 to walk away from them. Tony

06-18-2003, 03:59 PM	#11
Bill G Insane Collector Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: St. Charles, MO Posts: 1,248	F-100's I for one was not sorry to see USAirways retire the fleet. I have worked more than my fair share of aircraft types with Ozark, TWA and USAir/ US Airways and the F-100 was my least favorite along with the L-1011. Kind of an over glorified RJ. Bill G __________________ *Ozark Flies Your Way* FEES DON'T FLY AT SOUTHWEST

06-18-2003, 06:04 PM	#13
Bill G Insane Collector Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: St. Charles, MO Posts: 1,248	Super Dave Craig Yeah, no kidding! . Bill G __________________ *Ozark Flies Your Way* FEES DON'T FLY AT SOUTHWEST

06-18-2003, 06:10 PM	#14
pi737 Collector Join Date: May 2000 Location: Jamestown, NC USA Age: 43 Posts: 138	Bill G., where have you been? Look for me if you fly any of the extra trips on the little bus with CLT crews. Tony

06-18-2003, 06:17 PM	#15
Bill G Insane Collector Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: St. Charles, MO Posts: 1,248	Hey Tony Hey Tony Long time...... Got a couple of extra trips on the Airbus next month. SFO redeyes. Believe it or not I'll probably fly by block trips for the month. How unusual. Bill G __________________ *Ozark Flies Your Way* FEES DON'T FLY AT SOUTHWEST

06-19-2003, 10:13 AM	#16
pi737 Collector Join Date: May 2000 Location: Jamestown, NC USA Age: 43 Posts: 138	Bill, I'll be flying the short redeyes to SFO next month. We go out in the morning have 12 hrs out there then fly the redeye back. Not much of a trip, but with vacation, I will only be gone from the kids 4 nights in the month. I'll look for you in the airport! Tony

06-19-2003, 10:42 AM	#17
Bill G Insane Collector Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: St. Charles, MO Posts: 1,248	SFO redeyes Tony Mine are the long layovers. Had the short SFO redeyes last month. Worked the morning flight out of PHL then deadheaded back. Bill G __________________ *Ozark Flies Your Way* FEES DON'T FLY AT SOUTHWEST

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06-19-2003, 12:42 PM	#18
Hernan Matos Master Collector Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Orlando,Fl.32807 Age: 42 Posts: 530	Is Mexicana still using their fokkers? __________________ 'Whatever it takes' Southwest airlines

06-19-2003, 04:21 PM	#20
Hernan Matos Master Collector Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Orlando,Fl.32807 Age: 42 Posts: 530	I still remember then. I just hate the cargo belly on that plane.I used to work on them before i joined Southwest. __________________ 'Whatever it takes' Southwest airlines

06-20-2003, 09:02 AM	#22
Hernan Matos Master Collector Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Orlando,Fl.32807 Age: 42 Posts: 530	Not everything was bad with Mexicana. especially their flight attendants.Ay Chihuahua! __________________ 'Whatever it takes' Southwest airlines

06-21-2003, 06:56 PM	#23
Stanman Senior Collector Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Waxahachie, Texas, USA Posts: 426	American was also having to manufacture its own parts to keep the Fokkers flying. Can get very expensive. The landing gear weakness was identified and addressed although not always 100% satisfactorily as we saw last year.