United says new biz fares boosting monthly revenue

Travelin' Man · 03-03-2003, 12:35 PM

CHICAGO, March 3 — Bankrupt United Airlines said on Monday that its plan to lower airfares aimed at business travelers has led to an increase in revenue between $20 million and $25 million per month.

That is what I have been saying all along. If UAL just adjusted their pricing structure and stoped the practice of ripping off the business traveler, then they would start to make money. It just boiled my blood to pay $1,500 to fly Denver - LAX when the bozo next to me is paying $150.

There is no need to waste money and resources with Squishfish. Instead UAL needs to adjust their pricing models further with the existing fleet and service that they have. UAL's biggest crime is wasting billions of dollars on Avolar, the Shuttle by United, and the faled US Airways takeover.

UALsprtofSEA2 · 03-03-2003, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Travelin' Man
CHICAGO, March 3 — Bankrupt United Airlines said on Monday that its plan to lower airfares aimed at business travelers has led to an increase in revenue between $20 million and $25 million per month.

That is what I have been saying all along. If UAL just adjusted their pricing structure and stoped the practice of ripping off the business traveler, then they would start to make money. It just boiled my blood to pay $1,500 to fly Denver - LAX when the bozo next to me is paying $150.

There is no need to waste money and resources with Squishfish. Instead UAL needs to adjust their pricing models further with the existing fleet and service that they have. UAL's biggest crime is wasting billions of dollars on Avolar, the Shuttle by United, and the faled US Airways takeover.

Hey T-man,

Have you ever considered being the CEO of a major aircarrier?
You'd have my vote!

Scott

Travelin' Man · 03-03-2003, 11:44 PM

I would love to take over the CEO role of UAL but that ain't gonna' to happen.

First Tilton is wasting a lot of time and resources trying to get everyone to like him. Sure he is a swell guy but he don't know jack about flying. Really, do you think he has flown the airlines in the last 20 years? Nope. He was crusing around in his Gulfstream G-IV paid for by Texaco or Enron. I bet the last time Tilton paid for an airline ticket was around the time Pan Am introduced the 747.

Face it, UAL needs a leader that can make decisions, and make them quickly. First order of business is to clean house and get some real talent at corporate HQ. This means getting experienced airline professionals from within the company and fresh blood from great companies like Virgin Atlantic, Southwest, KLM, British Airways, JetBlue, Delta, KLM, Lufthansa, and Alaska Airlines. The new leader needs to take a few of his key managers and the key union reps and go somewhere remote for a week of face to face negotions and planning. Yep, lock everyone in a room for a week and you would be surprised at what you would get.

Next step is to present a new plan that will bring UAL out of bankruptcy and to the top ASAP. Really, isn't it strange that UAL hasn't disclosed their reorg plan yet. How much time do they really need? I think this plan should have been presented several months ago. Also the Board should be fired and replaced with real leaders. They should be investigated by the SEC for their actions during the past few years.

Yep, UAL needs a leader that can play hardball with creditors, labor, and the government. One that can instill confidence in the employees and customers while bringing innovation to an industry that is in desperate need of it.

Scott · 03-04-2003, 12:48 AM

Hey T-Man: If UALsprtofSEA2 and I can get you a seat at the top, will you require an $18,000 per month suite at the Four Seasons Chicago???

JOHN JOHNSON · 03-04-2003, 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by UALsprtofSEA2
Hey T-man,

Have you ever considered being the CEO of a major aircarrier?
You'd have my vote!

Scott

Hey Travelin' Man,

Suppose if you are selected as a United CEO. (Big SNOB!

)
You will get a 50X30 office along with a 10X4 desk and a "King" throne chair, smokin' a Cuban-made cigar, wearin' Italian's famous silk uniform/tie, wearing Swiss' famous-brand watch, and whatever.

My question what type of aircraft will you get rid of it?
What type of aircraft you will keep?
Massive lay-off?
Union busting?
How can you change the way UAL's business is to be operate under your era?

Mention something else that I havent thought about..... Come On answer this and this would be extremely interesting to hear what a smart-whiz business person like you have to say..... Then when time comes and we will wind up to this section to see whether you are right or 'rong.

Travelin' Man · 03-04-2003, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scott
Hey T-Man: If UALsprtofSEA2 and I can get you a seat at the top, will you require an $18,000 per month suite at the Four Seasons Chicago???

I would most likely rent a small townhome as close to corporate HQ as possible. Nothing fancy, just a place where I can go to change my suites and sleep. The only perk I can think of would be commuting between ORD and ASE every weekend so I can be with my family. Of course I would fly UAL so not much of a perk.

Travelin' Man · 03-04-2003, 01:20 PM

My question what type of aircraft will you get rid of it?
I would dump the Airbus fleet to JetBlue or Frontier at a discount, and take the writeoff.
What type of aircraft you will keep?
I would increase the 757-200 fleet with new orders for the 757-300 as well. Fewer flights with increased capacity. I would also go with the 737NG to replace the Airbus fleet. This means 737-600, 700, & 800's. The 767 would be maintained and replaced eventually with the 7e7 models. I would also look at the 717 for smaller RJ type routes. I would also look at the 777-300 to replace some 747-400 routes. I would and most likely convert older 757's and 767's and some 737's into Worldwide Cargo freighters. Face it, a company that was once called Boeing Air Transport will return to its heritage with a larger Boeing fleet. Plus Phil would cut some good deals right now, so why not.

Massive lay-off?
Well the fat will be trimmed starting from the top down. The goal is to instill a new corporate culture. Starting off, I would require that all managers work at least 5 - 10 hours a week on the front lines. This means customer service, baggage handeling, line work, flying the planes, FA, and mechanical positions. No one is exempt. If I have to dump the lavs or de-ice, then I will do that. This is a team and we all have to do our share. Will give managers real insight as to how to run the company better.

As to massive lay-offs. Well my thoughts are that it is managements responsibility to ensure that there is enough work to keep folks employed. It is a two way street. I would do my level best to keep jobs, but folks are going to have to earn the right to keep them as well. No more hiding behind union rules. There will be no "that is not my job crap." If something needs to be done then it gets done. Customer service will be top priority.

I would also set out to retain long term employees and let them know that they are valued. My goal would be to make it very hard to get a job at UAL because there is little turn-over.

Union busting?
If we work as a team then keeping the Unions would be fine. From what I understand, the Unions are more then willing to work with the company in order to save it. I would hope that the Unions would be the biggest assett that the company can rely on. I would hope that they would take an innovative position as well and be less ridgid on rules and regulations.

How can you change the way UAL's business is to be operate under your era?
I would try to bring back the fun in flying again. I would instill that customers need to be treated like people and not like cattle. Every customer would be valued from the 100k FF to the college student flying on a $100 ticket. The experience would start from the momemt a passenger arrived at the airport to the time they left. Facilities would be upgraded, new systems from checkin to boarding would be incorporated. In flight service would be increased as well. Individual seat monitors, internet service, and comfortable seats would be installed. I would also upgrade UAL's international service to a level of Singapore, Virgin, and British Airways. I would expand International service to the Middle East, India, and Africa. I would also target Eastern European markets like Moscow, Warsaw, and Budapest. I would rely less on the Star Alliance and build the airline from within. I would also keep prices as low as possible and not rip off certain customers just because it is easy.

Other areas that I would focus on would be establishing the Worldwide Cargo division. I would look at acquiring Atlas Air as well as other operators and consolidating them into one global concern. Using UAL's fleet and maintenance facilities would present a tremendous new business opportunity.

I would look at establishing a business class carrier on shuttle type routes. Like Washington D.C. - Chicago, LAX-SFO, SFO-SEA, DEN-ORD, etc. High frequency using 737-700's with all business class service. These flights would be priced reasonably and would offer an alternative to the upgrade game.

I would diversify the company into areas like private airport management (like BAA), third party aircraft maintenance and overhaul, and contract flight crew training. Like Boeing, the new UAL will be a diverse company that would be more then just an airline. This would ensure the long term survival even in down markets.

flick70 · 03-05-2003, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Travelin' Man
Yep, UAL needs a leader that can play hardball with creditors, labor, and the government. One that can instill confidence in the employees and customers while bringing innovation to an industry that is in desperate need of it.

I agreed with about everything you said...but this last paragraph kinda ticks me off.

Playing hardball with creditors is kind of asinine. The original problem with United (among others) is they were writing checks their /\ss couldn't cash. Because they can't manage themselves doesn't mean the creditors should get shafted.

What I prefer to think is that they need to ACCOMODATE the creditors....whom supplied them in good faith.

Ok...so I am nitpicking.

Sean1999 Ram Air TA · 03-05-2003, 01:36 PM

Shoot sign me up as T-man's #2 guy. I do not even need an office I believe upper management should be on the front lines showing the employees and customers that they do care. That means spending time in different cities every week working the ramp loading and unloading bags, working the ticket counter, helping serve drinks on flights, ect...

Also the salary what a joke pay someone what 800k a year to sit in and office and say he runs an airline, give me $80k a year and call me a V.P. and I would be happy to work from the WHQ every day.

It's time to return United to it's roots return United to what they were known for service and quality and Bring back the "Friendly Skies"

Sean

Travelin' Man · 03-05-2003, 03:45 PM

Oh don't get me wrong. I would demand a hefty salary package. Only difference would be that it would be PERFORMANCE based. I am thinking a base salary of $750,000 with a PERFORMANCE bonus between $100 - $2 million. Of course the bonus would work both ways. If I really sucked at the job (which I most likely would), I would have to pay back to the company 25% of my base salary. Face it I have bills to pay and why work for free when Tilton is getting a nice fat no performance package?

As to playing hardball with creditors...Well they like to squeeze your nuts when you are negotiating for a loan, even when that are a offering it to you, so why not have some fun and squeeze their nuts for a change. Face it, UAL is in a position to call the terms. Sure they borrowed the money, and they will pay it back. Only now they can negotiate terms that won't break the company.

Oh yeah, one more thing if I was CEO of United...I would paint one 777-200 in the Star's 'n Bar's livery. Now how cool would that be?

flick70 · 03-06-2003, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Travelin' Man
Oh yeah, one more thing if I was CEO of United...I would paint one 777-200 in the Star's 'n Bar's livery. Now how cool would that be?

If I were the CEO, I would rename it BRANIFF!

It would make perfect sense actually...if UA is really going to start selling off it's international routes. The beginning of the end for Braniff was when it sold off it's South American connections.

03-06-2003, 10:28 PM

how the heck do you lose $382.1 in one month .. thank god for those business fares otherwise it would have been $407 million.

Scott · 03-07-2003, 01:13 AM

T-Man, you the Man! I agree with most of your analysis, especially the item about ditching the Airbuses. Really don't want to go to A-320 school. Guppies rule!

Travelin' Man · 03-07-2003, 12:04 PM

Well correct me is I am wrong, but from what I hear from UAL employees is that they just hate the A320's from the line crews, to the mechaniacs and yes even the pilots. I also understand that althought UAL saved money on the planes on purchase, they are costing more to maintain and operate then expected. But the customers are getting that all important extra inch width in the cabin, so it must be worth it.

Fact is the A320 program is an old and poor attempt for Airbus to compete with the 737. Fact is a 30 year old 732 is a much better plane then the Airbus A320 ever will be. Why, well 30 years and still flying says it all. I doubt we will ever see any A320 still flying after 20 years! The 737NG is a better program and with the choices of the 600 - 800 series, makes better sense for an airline. I also think the 717 is a good fit for many short UAL routes as well. No need to go overboard with the RJ's. Sure they are great, but they lack in many areas. Mainly performance. I say a CRJ-700 yesterday in Aspen. Big plane small engines. Not my cup of tea.

I think that the new UAL should work out a new fleet program that boldly states that all mainline aircraft are made in America. I think it is right for UAL to help put back to work US Aerospace workers. Why, well this will only help the economy which will translate into good business.

UALsprtofSEA2 · 03-07-2003, 10:39 PM

In the summer of 2001 UAL changed alot of flights to Atlantic Coast routes from United mainlainers. One of the routes was ORD to ORF which United used a 737-300. I had one of the afternoon flights for a few months and we put on well over 130 bags everyday.
After the change to Atlantic Coast(not sure of the aircraft type) they were never able to put all the bags on the flight day in and day out. I talked to one of the AC rampers that use to work with UAL before the layoffs after 9/11. He said that everyday they held off dozens of bags because there was no space on the aircraft to put them on.
As we say at United........"thats the United Way"!!!!!!!!!

But, at the same time we still were flying into HPN from ORD putting on about 30 bags every flight. Were is the logic??????

Scott

Scott · 03-08-2003, 01:18 AM

Guess who else hates the RJ's? The funeral industry!! Can't fit a coffin in the Embraer or Canadairs.

Many pilots seem to like the A-320 once oriented with the Airbus way of life. It's probably just the sexy female automated voice system! The mechanics, however, call the 'bus the "Scud".

Travelin' Man · 03-08-2003, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scott
T-Man, you the Man! I agree with most of your analysis, especially the item about ditching the Airbuses. Really don't want to go to A-320 school. Guppies rule!

That is the problem. Having to spend millions training pilots, crews, and everybody else on several different aircraft and new types. Sure you save $5 million when you purchsase a new Airbus aircraft, but it will cost you an extra $15 million per plane to make the switch. I would ditch the Airbus fleet ASAP and streamline the fleet with a more uniform and versital product. This means transitoning into the 737NG family.

Intrim I would replace the Airbus fleet with existing 737-300 & 500 as well as we make the transitional move into NG's. There are great deals out there on these aircraft, and since UAL is already set up for them, makes sense. I would also rely more on the 757-200 as the workhorse of the fleet. This means more 757 aircraft, with the addition of the 757-300 as well to replace the 762 aircraft. I would also go ahead and purchase the 777-200 & 300ER's for international service and keep a handful of 744's for long haul routes.

As to RJ's, well that is another problem. Fact is UAL loses control by using other carriers for these routes. It would be better for UAL to operate these routes themselves. If UAL were to operate an airline within an airline, then it should be a regional carrier.

justin · 03-08-2003, 05:28 AM

I think there are real arguments in favour of standardising on Boeing, but to dismiss the A320 as rubbish is unfair. most of my friends at BA like the A320 family, there was a lot of worried people when BA selected the A319/320 after so many years of 737 and 757 operations, but according to my friends they're every bit as good as the Boeing machines and they have became very popular over at BA. Also to infer that Airbus have a lower build quality is wrong, they're a quality aircraft every bit as good as Boeing. I think we all have our favourites and most of it is based on personal preference, national pride, aesthetics etc. which is all fair enough.

Justin

Travelin' Man · 03-08-2003, 10:54 AM

Yes the Airbus isn't the end of the world, but as far as I am concerned, I think they are a piss poor excuse for a company. Making a profit isn't as important to them as trying to take jobs away from American Aerospace workers. Airbus hides behind government subdisies and now the EU. Remember the GE Honeywell merger, scared the crap out of Airbus.

My main reason to dump the A320 program is to standardize the fleet with aircraft made in the USA. Also, the 737NG has more options overall and overall better performance. I mean dose anyone really like the A321? What a dog.

justin · 03-08-2003, 11:39 AM

Actually I agree with a lot of the criticisms about Airbus funding and the political element, particularly with regard to France. What I get tired of is people dismissing the technical achievements of Airbus because they don't like the company. To be fair, Boeing are not exactly pure as fresh snow when it comes to using the US government to help secure foreign orders, and get a lot of state funding for R&D which directly aids their civil aircraft programs. Both companies have distorted the market by offering huge discounts and incentives to attract orders, to the detriment of some airlines.

Justin

Scott · 03-10-2003, 11:17 PM

T-Man, have you ridden in a UA 777 or 744 with the first class "suite" pod-seats? I just dead-headed in one and thought they were fabulous. DEN-SFO wasn't long enough to savor the features.

Travelin' Man · 03-11-2003, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scott
T-Man, have you ridden in a UA 777 or 744 with the first class "suite" pod-seats? I just dead-headed in one and thought they were fabulous. DEN-SFO wasn't long enough to savor the features.

I pulled an upgrade last year from IAD - LHR round trip. Yes the new first class seats rock. I have grown accustomed to them from flying British Airways. I can tell you that it really makes a long trip that much easier. When I arrived in London I had a nice nights sleep and felt great. Usually when you arrive that early in the AM your head is buzzing and you feel like crap. It is funny how United has not really advertised this amenity. I know that British Airways has really promoted the flat bed seat and cabin within a cabin for years. I was very impressed when UAL began installing them in their aircraft. Again another good service that UAL provides to their customers.

One other thing. I have wondered why you arn't seeing the pod type seats in the Gulfstream G-V or Bombardier Global Express Jets? The club seats in those planes are nice, but the Pod seats are the bomb.

03-03-2003, 12:35 PM	#1
Travelin' Man Insane Collector Join Date: May 2000 Location: Aspen USA!!! Posts: 1,919	United says new biz fares boosting monthly revenue CHICAGO, March 3 — Bankrupt United Airlines said on Monday that its plan to lower airfares aimed at business travelers has led to an increase in revenue between $20 million and $25 million per month. That is what I have been saying all along. If UAL just adjusted their pricing structure and stoped the practice of ripping off the business traveler, then they would start to make money. It just boiled my blood to pay $1,500 to fly Denver - LAX when the bozo next to me is paying $150. There is no need to waste money and resources with Squishfish. Instead UAL needs to adjust their pricing models further with the existing fleet and service that they have. UAL's biggest crime is wasting billions of dollars on Avolar, the Shuttle by United, and the faled US Airways takeover.

03-04-2003, 12:48 AM	#4
Scott Insane Collector Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Escondido, Ca. USA Age: 50 Posts: 2,763	Hey T-Man: If UALsprtofSEA2 and I can get you a seat at the top, will you require an $18,000 per month suite at the Four Seasons Chicago??? __________________ Fly the Friendly Skies of United uniTED takes wing Feb 12, 2004

03-04-2003, 01:20 PM	#7
Travelin' Man Insane Collector Join Date: May 2000 Location: Aspen USA!!! Posts: 1,919	Re: Picture this. My question what type of aircraft will you get rid of it? I would dump the Airbus fleet to JetBlue or Frontier at a discount, and take the writeoff. What type of aircraft you will keep? I would increase the 757-200 fleet with new orders for the 757-300 as well. Fewer flights with increased capacity. I would also go with the 737NG to replace the Airbus fleet. This means 737-600, 700, & 800's. The 767 would be maintained and replaced eventually with the 7e7 models. I would also look at the 717 for smaller RJ type routes. I would also look at the 777-300 to replace some 747-400 routes. I would and most likely convert older 757's and 767's and some 737's into Worldwide Cargo freighters. Face it, a company that was once called Boeing Air Transport will return to its heritage with a larger Boeing fleet. Plus Phil would cut some good deals right now, so why not. Massive lay-off? Well the fat will be trimmed starting from the top down. The goal is to instill a new corporate culture. Starting off, I would require that all managers work at least 5 - 10 hours a week on the front lines. This means customer service, baggage handeling, line work, flying the planes, FA, and mechanical positions. No one is exempt. If I have to dump the lavs or de-ice, then I will do that. This is a team and we all have to do our share. Will give managers real insight as to how to run the company better. As to massive lay-offs. Well my thoughts are that it is managements responsibility to ensure that there is enough work to keep folks employed. It is a two way street. I would do my level best to keep jobs, but folks are going to have to earn the right to keep them as well. No more hiding behind union rules. There will be no "that is not my job crap." If something needs to be done then it gets done. Customer service will be top priority. I would also set out to retain long term employees and let them know that they are valued. My goal would be to make it very hard to get a job at UAL because there is little turn-over. Union busting? If we work as a team then keeping the Unions would be fine. From what I understand, the Unions are more then willing to work with the company in order to save it. I would hope that the Unions would be the biggest assett that the company can rely on. I would hope that they would take an innovative position as well and be less ridgid on rules and regulations. How can you change the way UAL's business is to be operate under your era? I would try to bring back the fun in flying again. I would instill that customers need to be treated like people and not like cattle. Every customer would be valued from the 100k FF to the college student flying on a $100 ticket. The experience would start from the momemt a passenger arrived at the airport to the time they left. Facilities would be upgraded, new systems from checkin to boarding would be incorporated. In flight service would be increased as well. Individual seat monitors, internet service, and comfortable seats would be installed. I would also upgrade UAL's international service to a level of Singapore, Virgin, and British Airways. I would expand International service to the Middle East, India, and Africa. I would also target Eastern European markets like Moscow, Warsaw, and Budapest. I would rely less on the Star Alliance and build the airline from within. I would also keep prices as low as possible and not rip off certain customers just because it is easy. Other areas that I would focus on would be establishing the Worldwide Cargo division. I would look at acquiring Atlas Air as well as other operators and consolidating them into one global concern. Using UAL's fleet and maintenance facilities would present a tremendous new business opportunity. I would look at establishing a business class carrier on shuttle type routes. Like Washington D.C. - Chicago, LAX-SFO, SFO-SEA, DEN-ORD, etc. High frequency using 737-700's with all business class service. These flights would be priced reasonably and would offer an alternative to the upgrade game. I would diversify the company into areas like private airport management (like BAA), third party aircraft maintenance and overhaul, and contract flight crew training. Like Boeing, the new UAL will be a diverse company that would be more then just an airline. This would ensure the long term survival even in down markets.

03-05-2003, 01:36 PM	#9
Sean1999 Ram Air TA Senior Collector Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 249	Shoot sign me up as T-man's #2 guy. I do not even need an office I believe upper management should be on the front lines showing the employees and customers that they do care. That means spending time in different cities every week working the ramp loading and unloading bags, working the ticket counter, helping serve drinks on flights, ect... Also the salary what a joke pay someone what 800k a year to sit in and office and say he runs an airline, give me $80k a year and call me a V.P. and I would be happy to work from the WHQ every day. It's time to return United to it's roots return United to what they were known for service and quality and Bring back the "Friendly Skies" Sean __________________ United Airlines Historian and Memorabilia Collector WAHS Member Last edited by Sean1999 Ram Air TA; 03-05-2003 at 01:39 PM.

03-07-2003, 01:13 AM	#13
Scott Insane Collector Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Escondido, Ca. USA Age: 50 Posts: 2,763	T-Man, you the Man! I agree with most of your analysis, especially the item about ditching the Airbuses. Really don't want to go to A-320 school. Guppies rule! __________________ Fly the Friendly Skies of United uniTED takes wing Feb 12, 2004

03-03-2003, 11:44 PM	#3
Travelin' Man Insane Collector Join Date: May 2000 Location: Aspen USA!!! Posts: 1,919	I would love to take over the CEO role of UAL but that ain't gonna' to happen. First Tilton is wasting a lot of time and resources trying to get everyone to like him. Sure he is a swell guy but he don't know jack about flying. Really, do you think he has flown the airlines in the last 20 years? Nope. He was crusing around in his Gulfstream G-IV paid for by Texaco or Enron. I bet the last time Tilton paid for an airline ticket was around the time Pan Am introduced the 747. Face it, UAL needs a leader that can make decisions, and make them quickly. First order of business is to clean house and get some real talent at corporate HQ. This means getting experienced airline professionals from within the company and fresh blood from great companies like Virgin Atlantic, Southwest, KLM, British Airways, JetBlue, Delta, KLM, Lufthansa, and Alaska Airlines. The new leader needs to take a few of his key managers and the key union reps and go somewhere remote for a week of face to face negotions and planning. Yep, lock everyone in a room for a week and you would be surprised at what you would get. Next step is to present a new plan that will bring UAL out of bankruptcy and to the top ASAP. Really, isn't it strange that UAL hasn't disclosed their reorg plan yet. How much time do they really need? I think this plan should have been presented several months ago. Also the Board should be fired and replaced with real leaders. They should be investigated by the SEC for their actions during the past few years. Yep, UAL needs a leader that can play hardball with creditors, labor, and the government. One that can instill confidence in the employees and customers while bringing innovation to an industry that is in desperate need of it.

03-05-2003, 03:45 PM	#10
Travelin' Man Insane Collector Join Date: May 2000 Location: Aspen USA!!! Posts: 1,919	Oh don't get me wrong. I would demand a hefty salary package. Only difference would be that it would be PERFORMANCE based. I am thinking a base salary of $750,000 with a PERFORMANCE bonus between $100 - $2 million. Of course the bonus would work both ways. If I really sucked at the job (which I most likely would), I would have to pay back to the company 25% of my base salary. Face it I have bills to pay and why work for free when Tilton is getting a nice fat no performance package? As to playing hardball with creditors...Well they like to squeeze your nuts when you are negotiating for a loan, even when that are a offering it to you, so why not have some fun and squeeze their nuts for a change. Face it, UAL is in a position to call the terms. Sure they borrowed the money, and they will pay it back. Only now they can negotiate terms that won't break the company. Oh yeah, one more thing if I was CEO of United...I would paint one 777-200 in the Star's 'n Bar's livery. Now how cool would that be?

03-06-2003, 10:28 PM	#12
Presidential Guest Posts: n/a	how the heck do you lose $382.1 in one month .. thank god for those business fares otherwise it would have been $407 million.

03-07-2003, 12:04 PM	#14
Travelin' Man Insane Collector Join Date: May 2000 Location: Aspen USA!!! Posts: 1,919	Well correct me is I am wrong, but from what I hear from UAL employees is that they just hate the A320's from the line crews, to the mechaniacs and yes even the pilots. I also understand that althought UAL saved money on the planes on purchase, they are costing more to maintain and operate then expected. But the customers are getting that all important extra inch width in the cabin, so it must be worth it. Fact is the A320 program is an old and poor attempt for Airbus to compete with the 737. Fact is a 30 year old 732 is a much better plane then the Airbus A320 ever will be. Why, well 30 years and still flying says it all. I doubt we will ever see any A320 still flying after 20 years! The 737NG is a better program and with the choices of the 600 - 800 series, makes better sense for an airline. I also think the 717 is a good fit for many short UAL routes as well. No need to go overboard with the RJ's. Sure they are great, but they lack in many areas. Mainly performance. I say a CRJ-700 yesterday in Aspen. Big plane small engines. Not my cup of tea. I think that the new UAL should work out a new fleet program that boldly states that all mainline aircraft are made in America. I think it is right for UAL to help put back to work US Aerospace workers. Why, well this will only help the economy which will translate into good business.

03-07-2003, 10:39 PM	#15
UALsprtofSEA2 Master Collector Join Date: May 2000 Location: Chicago Age: 45 Posts: 895	Why the RJ aren't that great In the summer of 2001 UAL changed alot of flights to Atlantic Coast routes from United mainlainers. One of the routes was ORD to ORF which United used a 737-300. I had one of the afternoon flights for a few months and we put on well over 130 bags everyday. After the change to Atlantic Coast(not sure of the aircraft type) they were never able to put all the bags on the flight day in and day out. I talked to one of the AC rampers that use to work with UAL before the layoffs after 9/11. He said that everyday they held off dozens of bags because there was no space on the aircraft to put them on. As we say at United........"thats the United Way"!!!!!!!!! But, at the same time we still were flying into HPN from ORD putting on about 30 bags every flight. Were is the logic?????? Scott __________________ 737-200 United Airlines(bl/gry) Midway(80s) 727-100 Flying Tigers,UPS,Emery,DHL, TWA 727-200 ATA, Delta Shuttle,Carnival,Sunworld(WL's). 747-300 Swissair(80's livery), KLM combi (90's livery). 757-200 UAL(sb), Eastern(reg. tail) 767-200 United(any), Delta(any),TWA(red stripes),Airborne Express, All Nippon,Kuwait,LOT,Varig(any). DC-10's Swissair(all), ATA

03-08-2003, 01:18 AM	#16
Scott Insane Collector Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Escondido, Ca. USA Age: 50 Posts: 2,763	Guess who else hates the RJ's? The funeral industry!! Can't fit a coffin in the Embraer or Canadairs. Many pilots seem to like the A-320 once oriented with the Airbus way of life. It's probably just the sexy female automated voice system! The mechanics, however, call the 'bus the "Scud". __________________ Fly the Friendly Skies of United uniTED takes wing Feb 12, 2004

03-08-2003, 05:28 AM	#18
justin Insane Collector Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 2,005	I think there are real arguments in favour of standardising on Boeing, but to dismiss the A320 as rubbish is unfair. most of my friends at BA like the A320 family, there was a lot of worried people when BA selected the A319/320 after so many years of 737 and 757 operations, but according to my friends they're every bit as good as the Boeing machines and they have became very popular over at BA. Also to infer that Airbus have a lower build quality is wrong, they're a quality aircraft every bit as good as Boeing. I think we all have our favourites and most of it is based on personal preference, national pride, aesthetics etc. which is all fair enough. Justin

03-08-2003, 10:54 AM	#19
Travelin' Man Insane Collector Join Date: May 2000 Location: Aspen USA!!! Posts: 1,919	Yes the Airbus isn't the end of the world, but as far as I am concerned, I think they are a piss poor excuse for a company. Making a profit isn't as important to them as trying to take jobs away from American Aerospace workers. Airbus hides behind government subdisies and now the EU. Remember the GE Honeywell merger, scared the crap out of Airbus. My main reason to dump the A320 program is to standardize the fleet with aircraft made in the USA. Also, the 737NG has more options overall and overall better performance. I mean dose anyone really like the A321? What a dog.

03-08-2003, 11:39 AM	#20
justin Insane Collector Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 2,005	Actually I agree with a lot of the criticisms about Airbus funding and the political element, particularly with regard to France. What I get tired of is people dismissing the technical achievements of Airbus because they don't like the company. To be fair, Boeing are not exactly pure as fresh snow when it comes to using the US government to help secure foreign orders, and get a lot of state funding for R&D which directly aids their civil aircraft programs. Both companies have distorted the market by offering huge discounts and incentives to attract orders, to the detriment of some airlines. Justin

03-10-2003, 11:17 PM	#21
Scott Insane Collector Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Escondido, Ca. USA Age: 50 Posts: 2,763	T-Man, have you ridden in a UA 777 or 744 with the first class "suite" pod-seats? I just dead-headed in one and thought they were fabulous. DEN-SFO wasn't long enough to savor the features. __________________ Fly the Friendly Skies of United uniTED takes wing Feb 12, 2004

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