UAL Squishfish or BigFish?

Travelin' Man · 02-26-2003, 02:35 AM

I wonder why UAL thinks they can compete with Southwest and JetBlue with their so called Squishfish airline? Why not pull a 180 and create an airline within an airline that would cater to the business travler instead. Thats right, take some 737's and 757's and make them into businessmen specials. Just like Midwest Express.

There is a huge business market still out there and providing an premium limited service could very well be profitable. Lufthansa is doing it with a BBJ from Newark to Hamburg. Midwest Express has been doing it well for many years. So why not UAL? I mean they already have the customer base right? If they price their flights right, it could be huge.

Restructure the existing carrier so lower fares can be possible more often. Increase RJ and air cargo service, and offer something that the other big carriers don't. - A premium product. Time for UAL to be original and stop tryng to be a sheep.

richie154 · 02-26-2003, 03:43 AM

isnt air cargo very profitable? if so, why did UA do away with their Worldwide Cargo division?? maybe they should bring that back...but wait, they already sold all their DC-10F's.

02-26-2003, 12:53 PM

Air cargo is a cash cow. Sometimes if a route isn't profitable due to something like poor ticket sales or low fares, the revenue from cargo can improve the yield. It doesn't always mean an airline will keep the route, though. It depends on a variety of factors, usually the yield has to be high enough for the bean-counters to justify continuing the route.

Scott · 02-26-2003, 03:40 PM

I can't profess to understand some of UA's marketing strategies, but both "businessman's flights" and air cargo was initiated decades ago. During the 1960's they used specially configured Caravelle's and flew them from the ORD hub to east-coast business centers. Lots of steak, cigars, and liquor were consumed on those MEN-ONLY flights. Yes, they actually would refuse female passengers! Air cargo was also a huge dimension, utilizing dedicated DC-8's and 727QC's. The trijets were the -100 variant with a side cargo door, and a removable interior. People by day, boxes at night. Didn't UPS try this a few years ago?

Travelin' Man · 02-26-2003, 04:32 PM

Yes the Caravelle club I hear was quite popular.

I always thought that UAL could be a huge player in the Air Cargo Market. Worldwide Cargo should have worked but using DC-10's was a wrong choice. Instead UAL should convert their older 737, 757, 767, and 747 into freighters. With a variety of jet sizes they can specialize in several markets from domestic to international air freight. UAL should also look at positioning a Worldwide Cargo division under the Atlas Air Cargo business model as well. In fact, UAL should have gone after a company like Altas instead of US Airways

The business class model is feasible. Just look at Midwest Express. Fact is a lot of folks are still flying for business and are willing to pay more for a higher level of service. UAL already has millions of eliete customers and this could be one way to offer a premium service to these customers. Another bent would be to acquire some 747-400 Combi's and make them ultura luxury International cruisers. We are talking long haul flights from SFO - Singapore, LAX - Sydney, etc. We are talking Business and First Class Service only, and replace coach with cargo. These flights would augment existing sservice and again capture some revenue from the premium markets.

JOHN JOHNSON · 02-26-2003, 08:24 PM

I disagree that cargo is consider as "cash cow" and I blame it to the management for being mismanagement due to their lack of senses but to make the money.

Such as "CF or C" like KLM, Martinair, Swissair, and others are using their jumbo jets as "CF" or "C" versions. Depending on the route and United can find it very useful over 757 if they need a 150-200 seat of psgrs and use the cargo in the rear and the below deck. There is so many things that CF or C versions can be very useful. I think with a cerrain airliners are very smart enough to have CF or C version in their fleets despite the season-business and psgr/cargo ratio. If just a pure cargo and it is best to let such as FEDEX, Polar, and others to do the job. I think it is very difficult for any U.S airliner to operate cargo-only while having psgr to operate in order to compete against s.o.b. like SWA, JB, etc. Keep in mind that Lufthansa's story is way different than U.S. airliners. (Not any of many cargoer in Germany) IMO.

By the way welcome back, Travelin' Man! I surely miss such commentary and conspiracy theory of yours. Keep bring such issues..... Sometime fun to watch flamewars between you and UAL loyalists!

02-26-2003, 10:36 PM

I stated that cargo is a cash cow when it's sold in the cargo hold of passenger jets. I don't know about having a designated fleet of cargo jets in a passenger airline fleet as the airline I work for hasn't had pure freighters in its fleet since the 707, so you know how long that's been!

02-26-2003, 02:35 AM	#1
Travelin' Man Insane Collector Join Date: May 2000 Location: Aspen USA!!! Posts: 1,919	UAL Squishfish or BigFish? I wonder why UAL thinks they can compete with Southwest and JetBlue with their so called Squishfish airline? Why not pull a 180 and create an airline within an airline that would cater to the business travler instead. Thats right, take some 737's and 757's and make them into businessmen specials. Just like Midwest Express. There is a huge business market still out there and providing an premium limited service could very well be profitable. Lufthansa is doing it with a BBJ from Newark to Hamburg. Midwest Express has been doing it well for many years. So why not UAL? I mean they already have the customer base right? If they price their flights right, it could be huge. Restructure the existing carrier so lower fares can be possible more often. Increase RJ and air cargo service, and offer something that the other big carriers don't. - A premium product. Time for UAL to be original and stop tryng to be a sheep.

02-26-2003, 03:43 AM	#2
richie154 Retired Hookah Master Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Valley of Heart's Delight Age: 24 Posts: 3,719	isnt air cargo very profitable? if so, why did UA do away with their Worldwide Cargo division?? maybe they should bring that back...but wait, they already sold all their DC-10F's. __________________ The Devil can cite Scripture for his purpose. An evil soul producing holy witness is like a villian with a smiling cheek, a goodly apple rotten at the heart. Oh, what a goodly outside falsehood hath! Private Pilot: 10/20/2005 Private Multi Engine: 05/09/2008 The more things change, the more Mesa still sucks.

02-26-2003, 03:40 PM	#4
Scott Insane Collector Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Escondido, Ca. USA Age: 50 Posts: 2,763	I can't profess to understand some of UA's marketing strategies, but both "businessman's flights" and air cargo was initiated decades ago. During the 1960's they used specially configured Caravelle's and flew them from the ORD hub to east-coast business centers. Lots of steak, cigars, and liquor were consumed on those MEN-ONLY flights. Yes, they actually would refuse female passengers! Air cargo was also a huge dimension, utilizing dedicated DC-8's and 727QC's. The trijets were the -100 variant with a side cargo door, and a removable interior. People by day, boxes at night. Didn't UPS try this a few years ago? __________________ Fly the Friendly Skies of United uniTED takes wing Feb 12, 2004

02-26-2003, 08:24 PM	#6
JOHN JOHNSON Mysterious Collector Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 4,196	Cash cow? I disagree that cargo is consider as "cash cow" and I blame it to the management for being mismanagement due to their lack of senses but to make the money. Such as "CF or C" like KLM, Martinair, Swissair, and others are using their jumbo jets as "CF" or "C" versions. Depending on the route and United can find it very useful over 757 if they need a 150-200 seat of psgrs and use the cargo in the rear and the below deck. There is so many things that CF or C versions can be very useful. I think with a cerrain airliners are very smart enough to have CF or C version in their fleets despite the season-business and psgr/cargo ratio. If just a pure cargo and it is best to let such as FEDEX, Polar, and others to do the job. I think it is very difficult for any U.S airliner to operate cargo-only while having psgr to operate in order to compete against s.o.b. like SWA, JB, etc. Keep in mind that Lufthansa's story is way different than U.S. airliners. (Not any of many cargoer in Germany) IMO. By the way welcome back, Travelin' Man! I surely miss such commentary and conspiracy theory of yours. Keep bring such issues..... Sometime fun to watch flamewars between you and UAL loyalists! __________________ Who should I consider? Dumbocrat Clinton or Ruptublican Johnny Mc Cain? Jimmy Mc Donald Help me! Last edited by JOHN JOHNSON; 02-26-2003 at 08:27 PM.

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02-26-2003, 12:53 PM	#3
NYCAAer Guest Posts: n/a	Air cargo is a cash cow. Sometimes if a route isn't profitable due to something like poor ticket sales or low fares, the revenue from cargo can improve the yield. It doesn't always mean an airline will keep the route, though. It depends on a variety of factors, usually the yield has to be high enough for the bean-counters to justify continuing the route.

02-26-2003, 04:32 PM	#5
Travelin' Man Insane Collector Join Date: May 2000 Location: Aspen USA!!! Posts: 1,919	Yes the Caravelle club I hear was quite popular. I always thought that UAL could be a huge player in the Air Cargo Market. Worldwide Cargo should have worked but using DC-10's was a wrong choice. Instead UAL should convert their older 737, 757, 767, and 747 into freighters. With a variety of jet sizes they can specialize in several markets from domestic to international air freight. UAL should also look at positioning a Worldwide Cargo division under the Atlas Air Cargo business model as well. In fact, UAL should have gone after a company like Altas instead of US Airways The business class model is feasible. Just look at Midwest Express. Fact is a lot of folks are still flying for business and are willing to pay more for a higher level of service. UAL already has millions of eliete customers and this could be one way to offer a premium service to these customers. Another bent would be to acquire some 747-400 Combi's and make them ultura luxury International cruisers. We are talking long haul flights from SFO - Singapore, LAX - Sydney, etc. We are talking Business and First Class Service only, and replace coach with cargo. These flights would augment existing sservice and again capture some revenue from the premium markets.

02-26-2003, 10:36 PM	#7
NYCAAer Guest Posts: n/a	I stated that cargo is a cash cow when it's sold in the cargo hold of passenger jets. I don't know about having a designated fleet of cargo jets in a passenger airline fleet as the airline I work for hasn't had pure freighters in its fleet since the 707, so you know how long that's been!