justin

How does livery and marketing image really affechow people fly? Airlines pay $100,000's of dollars to consultants for these things and how important is it, really? How many people here really make decisions on tbased on aircraft livery, is it even a consideration? I can only speak for myself, but for me there are three basic questions I ask when booking a flight;

1) who flies to where I need to go (the most important question!)

2) of the airlines that fly where I am going, which ones do I consider to have a good safety culture and high standards

3) of the airlines that I consider sound, who is the cheapest

Where there are several airlines that meet my criteria and have a similar ticket price then I look at cabin service, I prefer to use British carriers (apart from VS) and equipment (I prefer the 767 and A330/340 for long haul), but I can honestly say that airline livery and marketing is irrelevant. Does anybody here use these things as a consideration when booking flights? I ask this as considering the financial state of airlines and the money they waste on image makeovers (half of which result in sometmuch worse anyway!) I think this is a prime area to cut costs as to me it's just money wasted.

Justin

NYCAAer

I think most people take into consideration only one thing- low fares. That's why Southwest, JetBlue, AirTran, EasyJet & Ryanair are all doing so well.

Most major carriers in the U.S. are the same- the same dirty planes, the same bad food if there is any at all, the same indifferent staff. At least if you fly a low-fare carrier, you might actually be treated like a human being- for like half the price.

HannibalHays

Product branding, image and identity is critical in todays markets... Names, colors, symbols and trademarks are psychologically imperative in conferring safety, quality dependability and even comfort When a product offers to take human beings several miles above the earth at hundreds of miles an hour they need to convey a reassuring impression!

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Scott

justin

I know that's the marketing theory, but nobody I know takes any notice at all of those things, almost all my friends just buy the cheapest ticket irrespective of any other factors. I work for a multi-national company buying 10,000's of long haul tickets for staff every year and their only two considerations are route availability and price. The airline industry has been pretty good at brainwashing us all into thinking airlines are the gold standard of safety so almost nobody now questions air safety and are happy to buy tickets with any airline anyway. Personally I don't buy that and there are major differences in safety cultures, but often the ones with the great image are ones that in my own opinion are dangerous. I once observed a major international airline who wins a LOT of awards for service trying to bend an Airbus wing to line up the spars and stringers with bags of lead shot, it may have a good image but I'd never fly them. Just yesterday my wife bought a ticket (well she selected a ticket which I paid for!!) to Asia and she immediately just asked for the cheapest quote without thinking of anything else even though I told her KLM are garbage and it was better to pay an extra 30-50 pounds for Air France or Lufthansa. I really think all these image makeovers are a complete waste of money, but that's just my opinion.

Justin

HannibalHays

Exactly... not on a concious level, it's not suppose to.
But those elements do significantly impact most of your (and my) purchasing decisions. I apply such techniques frequently on advertising design and photography assignments for major US corporations...

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Scott

justin

agree that marketing works when it comes to home wear, clothes, food, drinks, electronics, cars etc., but in the case of airlines I still think it's pointless. Just now I'm thinking of buying a hi-fi (or upgrading) and must admit that marketing is very much a factor as I'd be lying if I said advertising and sales brochures had no effect, but with air travel if I am going to somewhere like Abidjan, Malabo, Pointe Noir etc. the choices are so limited I essentially have only one or two options anyway. Flying inside the UK or Europe since I it's only one hour and most airlines are safe I just ask my agent who is cheapest, end of story. When buying something we are going to live with there are many factors involved, including image, reputation and what one might describe as brand kudos, but an air ticket is a means to an end and a throwaway item, as long as you get there who cares about the rest? Obviously we all want comfort, safety and reliability, but many people are even too fussy about that if it's cheap,

Justin

NYCAAer

Justin-

Your wife is flying to somewhere in Asia & she's going on KLM. Why not BA? There's really that much difference in the fares? I'm surprised Air France & Lufthansa were 50-60 quid more than KLM. Don't they compete on price? And what about Emirates or Singapore, who are known to be good. Are their fares higher, too? I've never understood how airlines do their fare pricing anyway. I think the public thinks the same thing.

justin

Hi Kevin,

our local airport is Newcastle, this limits us to BA, AF, KL and LH basically for international flights (plus codeshare partners), if she went down to London there are many more options but it's a 4 hour train ride to London Euston, taxi over to Padington then the Heathrow Express out to LHR, you're looking at £100 extra at least plus a 5 hour+ journey so it's better to use NCL. KLM were £620, AF and LH both about £650-660 and BA £750. I think BA are more expensive as they don't fly to Jakarta so you go with Qantas from Singapore to Jakarta. To me, if you're going to pay £620 you may as well pay £650 and use a decent airline (AF flights to Asia are pretty good) rather than a POS airline like KLM, but if my wife wants to save me money I won't argue too long From London she could use a lot of airlines, but fares aren't actually that much cheaper considering the inconvenience. My company has an account with BA and I love flying BA but I wouldn't pay an extra £100 for the experience, I'd rather spend that £100 on other things I've flown a few of the Asian carriers including CX and SQ and honestly think they are no better than BA, AF, LH etc. these days, now the main European airlines do offer pretty good service. I love ANA livery (it's one of my all time favourites) but the only reason I've flown ANA (and JAL) to Japan is because my company paid for the ticket, and their ONLY concerns are route availability and price Take care!

Justin

NYCAAer

My friend Yvonne is from Newcastle, but lives in Hounslow & works for AA at Heathrow. She goes home often to visit family, but I had no idea what you have to go through to get to LHR from NCL. What a nightmare! I'm not sure how she gets to NCL by air- possibly EasyJet? Of course, that would be out of Luton- another inconvenience if you're in transit.

Sorry to hear BA no longer serves Jakarta. When I think of BA, I always think of them as being the one true global carrier of the world.

Newcastle Brown Ale rules!!! Bon voyage to your wife!

justin

Can't beat Newcastle Brown, ha!!! I fly on the NCL-LHR route quite a lot to connect to BA flights to the mid East and Africa and it is a much, much better route than KLM through AMS, but only if somebody else is paying, ha ha! I live in Carlisle, about 100Km. West of NCL so it's still quite a trip, but the Virgin Trains service down to London from Carlisle is just dreadful, it's a nightmare Take care!

Justin