United's low-cost division?

02-09-2003, 10:21 PM

Anyone hear anything more from UAL about its planned low-cost carrier? Rumor has it that it will fly out of ORD. UAL has been sluggish to reveal anything about it since unveiling the proposal to the unions & the media.

I've heard the pilots & flight attendants are lukewarm to the idea.This is sure to stir up the same controversy as Song.

Scott · 02-10-2003, 03:20 AM

Well, it has a name! Would you believe "Starfish"? The prefix of "star" is logical, as in Star Alliance. But "fish"? Any analogy to a fish or water does not conjure positive images for an airline!
Oh well, they forgot to ask me, or any other employee.
The stated mode of employment for the new sub-airline is to hire from the street, presumably the hordes of furloughed UA employees. THIS WILL NOT STAND! These words are not from a militant unionist, as the basic premise does not pass the "smell test", and is not an economic necessity. Nor, IMHO is this how the company actually intends to staff the shuttle replacement. To start, Glenn Tilton claims to value loyalty, and recalls the humble beginnings of UAL and the halcyon days of CEO Patterson. Casting off a sizeable chunk of the operation and destroying employee longevity will not achieve solidarity with management. Further, the training costs of "requalifying" pilots abandoned to the street will be dramatic. The bankruptcy judge will not be impressed by flowery presentations of ultra long-term gains; the creditors are impressed by immediately recognizable savings.
Many of us view management's statements as deliberately demoralizing and splitting with the intent to win a 2-tier wage structure, yet ultimately acquiescing to a single seniority system.
Most of us recognize the dire financial state of the airline, and will endure much sacrifice to preserve jobs.

02-10-2003, 11:59 AM

Starfish? Is that just the name of the project? At AA, there was "Project Gateway," which was the code name for the TWA acquisition until revealed to the public & the employees.

02-10-2003, 12:05 PM

The whole sub-airline idea is stupid in my opinion ... it just distracts from the real work that needs to be done.

Starliner · 02-10-2003, 01:31 PM

I thought I had heard "U2" as a possible name. Anyways, the idea that an airline has to start a low cost carrier just doesn't sound right; it implies something is seriously wrong to start with. I have noticed white United Shuttle 737s coming and going from OKC. I would think they'd want to get that paint scheme gone ASAP.

Travelin' Man · 02-10-2003, 05:11 PM

I really feel sorry for you Scott. I have been waiting to see what Jagoff Tilton had in plan and sure enough, he is letting us all down. There is no way these new airlines within an airline are going to work. UAL is in an excellent position to restructure their airline and come out as a super carrier. Are they doing that? Nope. They are wasting time and resources trying to figure out how to compete with Southwest and JetBlue. Like I said before, this is dumb as these carriers are flush with cash and can beat anyone in a fare war.

I dont want to fly Starfish or Song, I want to fly UAL and Delta! Why lose the history and heritage to some lame *** marketing plan that is shortsighted and stupid. I don't see too many differences between these so called discount carriers and United and Delta's premium product. Frankly, JetBlue is a premium product compared to the services that UAL and Delta offers.

All UAL needs to do is pull first class on most short haul routes, upgrade their cabins and services to that of a JetBlue or better, restructure fares across the board, and treat the customer like they should be treated, and folks will start to fly with them again. This discount carrier is the wrong direction and if it continues, UAL is doomed.

I suggest the Unions replace Tilton and his team ASAP and get some leadership and innovation behind the wheel. If not, I think liquidation is headed sooner rather then later.

02-09-2003, 10:21 PM	#1
NYCAAer Guest Posts: n/a	United's low-cost division? Anyone hear anything more from UAL about its planned low-cost carrier? Rumor has it that it will fly out of ORD. UAL has been sluggish to reveal anything about it since unveiling the proposal to the unions & the media. I've heard the pilots & flight attendants are lukewarm to the idea.This is sure to stir up the same controversy as Song.

02-10-2003, 03:20 AM	#2
Scott Insane Collector Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Escondido, Ca. USA Age: 50 Posts: 2,763	Well, it has a name! Would you believe "Starfish"? The prefix of "star" is logical, as in Star Alliance. But "fish"? Any analogy to a fish or water does not conjure positive images for an airline! Oh well, they forgot to ask me, or any other employee. The stated mode of employment for the new sub-airline is to hire from the street, presumably the hordes of furloughed UA employees. THIS WILL NOT STAND! These words are not from a militant unionist, as the basic premise does not pass the "smell test", and is not an economic necessity. Nor, IMHO is this how the company actually intends to staff the shuttle replacement. To start, Glenn Tilton claims to value loyalty, and recalls the humble beginnings of UAL and the halcyon days of CEO Patterson. Casting off a sizeable chunk of the operation and destroying employee longevity will not achieve solidarity with management. Further, the training costs of "requalifying" pilots abandoned to the street will be dramatic. The bankruptcy judge will not be impressed by flowery presentations of ultra long-term gains; the creditors are impressed by immediately recognizable savings. Many of us view management's statements as deliberately demoralizing and splitting with the intent to win a 2-tier wage structure, yet ultimately acquiescing to a single seniority system. Most of us recognize the dire financial state of the airline, and will endure much sacrifice to preserve jobs. __________________ Fly the Friendly Skies of United uniTED takes wing Feb 12, 2004

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02-10-2003, 11:59 AM	#3
NYCAAer Guest Posts: n/a	Starfish? Is that just the name of the project? At AA, there was "Project Gateway," which was the code name for the TWA acquisition until revealed to the public & the employees.

02-10-2003, 12:05 PM	#4
Presidential Guest Posts: n/a	The whole sub-airline idea is stupid in my opinion ... it just distracts from the real work that needs to be done.

02-10-2003, 01:31 PM	#5
Starliner Senior Collector Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Norman OK USA Posts: 452	I thought I had heard "U2" as a possible name. Anyways, the idea that an airline has to start a low cost carrier just doesn't sound right; it implies something is seriously wrong to start with. I have noticed white United Shuttle 737s coming and going from OKC. I would think they'd want to get that paint scheme gone ASAP.

02-10-2003, 05:11 PM	#6
Travelin' Man Insane Collector Join Date: May 2000 Location: Aspen USA!!! Posts: 1,919	I really feel sorry for you Scott. I have been waiting to see what Jagoff Tilton had in plan and sure enough, he is letting us all down. There is no way these new airlines within an airline are going to work. UAL is in an excellent position to restructure their airline and come out as a super carrier. Are they doing that? Nope. They are wasting time and resources trying to figure out how to compete with Southwest and JetBlue. Like I said before, this is dumb as these carriers are flush with cash and can beat anyone in a fare war. I dont want to fly Starfish or Song, I want to fly UAL and Delta! Why lose the history and heritage to some lame *** marketing plan that is shortsighted and stupid. I don't see too many differences between these so called discount carriers and United and Delta's premium product. Frankly, JetBlue is a premium product compared to the services that UAL and Delta offers. All UAL needs to do is pull first class on most short haul routes, upgrade their cabins and services to that of a JetBlue or better, restructure fares across the board, and treat the customer like they should be treated, and folks will start to fly with them again. This discount carrier is the wrong direction and if it continues, UAL is doomed. I suggest the Unions replace Tilton and his team ASAP and get some leadership and innovation behind the wheel. If not, I think liquidation is headed sooner rather then later.