Frontier Jet Breaks Washington Flight Ban

Sean1999 Ram Air TA · 04-02-2002, 12:27 PM

http://news.airwise.com/display/stor...017743112.html

A US passenger jet broke air security regulations and flew over the White House after leaving Washington's Reagan National Airport, the Federal Aviation Administration has confirmed.

The incident, which happened Monday and involved a Frontier Airlines Boeing 737, has been blamed on an error by the pilot.

The plane, en route to Denver, flew through airspace over central Washington which has been restricted and patrolled by military fighter aircraft since last year's terrorist attacks.

After being contacted by controllers the Frontier pilot acknowledged his navigational mistake but was allowed to continue the flight.

The FAA said Flight 819 missed a turning point shortly after take-off and was monitored by security agencies.

NEADC9 · 04-02-2002, 03:43 PM

Oooops!

I recently flew out of there and most aircraft make a sharp left turn immediately after take off to avoid the "No-Fly Zone"

I would imagine the conversation in the cockpit went something like this!

Ah Captain, did you know there is an F-16 off our starboard wing!

TL925 · 04-02-2002, 09:07 PM

I have no idea what sort of air defense Washington has, but if the plane really did fly over the White House, and although it was accidental, how long would it take to have theoretically nose dived into any of DC's landmarks. I couldn't imagine more than a minute. Although the plane was being monitered, could they have reacted if the plane had done that? I'm not saying they should have shot the plane down, but can anything like the 11th really be prevented with planes taking off from Raegan?

Jeff H · 04-03-2002, 12:01 AM

.....that every single one of those flights either into or out of DCA has a Federal Air Marshall on it. And furthermore, you pass over all the landmarks not 30 seconds from actual take-off - there's not a whole lot of time.

So in order for a terrorist to take over the plane, he would have to overpower the Air Marshall, take over the cockpit during taxi, and then succesfully/taxi control the plane on the ground without raising any suspicion with the control tower. Yeah, the September 11 perp's were reasonably well trained pilots, but I don't think any of them could have accomplished all that without being noticed.

So at the risk of sounding overconfident, I am not incredibly worried about an aircraft out of DCA being taken over.

TL925 · 04-03-2002, 12:59 AM

It's actually a somewhat funny story to tell now, although it was somewhat nerveracking when it actuall occured. When I was flying back to DC on America West after spending Thanksgiving at home last Novermber, we were circling around DC for a while. The pilot was telling us repeatedly that the reason we were circling around was due to weather, which was not too hard to believe since it was raining outside.
After circling around for forty-five minutes, we were told by the pilot that we were being diverted to Dulles due to the weather. This was somewhat suprising to the passengers since Dulles is not all too far from National. However, once landing at Dulles, we were definitely suprised to be taxied to a remote part of the airport where we were soon surrounded by police cars and FBI SUV's...a somewhat interesting sight for a "weather" diversion. The pilot came on again saying he did not know what was happening, but that the FBI would be boarding the plane. After searching the plane and apparently being satisfied, the FBI left the plane at around 2:00 (3 hours after departure, and it's a 1 hour flight). We were then told by the pilot that we would immediatly fly back to National now that things were cleared up.

TL925 · 04-03-2002, 01:04 AM

It's actually a somewhat funny story to tell now, although it was somewhat nerveracking when it actuall occured. When I was flying back to DC on America West after spending Thanksgiving at home last Novermber, we were circling around DC for a while. The pilot was telling us repeatedly that the reason we were circling around was due to weather, which was not too hard to believe since it was raining outside.
After circling around for forty-five minutes, we were told by the pilot that we were being diverted to Dulles due to the weather. This was somewhat suprising to the passengers since Dulles is not all too far from National. However, once landing at Dulles, we were definitely suprised to be taxied to a remote part of the airport where we were soon surrounded by police cars and FBI SUV's...a somewhat interesting sight for a "weather" diversion. The pilot came on again saying he did not know what was happening, but that the FBI would be boarding the plane. After searching the plane and apparently being satisfied, the FBI left the plane at around 2:00 (3 hours after departure, and it's a 1 hour flight). We were then told by the pilot that we would immediatly fly back to National now that things were cleared up.
However, since America West does not fly out of Dulles, we the airline had to contract Delta to service the plane, which ended up taking another 2 hours due to the "complexity" of the papers and payments. And at 5:30, our flight finally arrived at DCA. Definitely an interesting story.
A friend of mine works for America West, and eventually I found out what happened on our flight. Apparently Post Sept 11th, flights into DCA are required to punch in a code changed daily which tells the tower at DCA that everything on board is OK. Our pilot just happened to forget and tried to play the odds by guessing a code...too bad it wasn't right. Hence the entire situation on the flight. I am not angry at the airline since the security measures were newly implemented, but I just think passengers deserve to have a better idea of what's going on in the future (even if it makes the pilot look like an idiot:-))

TL925 · 04-03-2002, 01:04 AM

sorry about that double post there, must have hit enter at the wrong place

Clip · 04-03-2002, 01:46 AM

Not ALL flights into and out of DCA carry Sky Marshals, but there are numerous other security measures in place that are exclusive to that airport. Many DCA flights, however, carry more than one Sky Marshal. You can be sure that DCA flights are the safest, from a security standpoint, in the country. It would, however, take a matter of seconds for a departing aircraft to stray from its course and fly through restricted airspace, as did that Frontier aircraft. Even prior to September 11, pilots would get their knuckles rapped for flying through a restricted area -- even if they lost an engine on climb-out and opted not to turn up river for safety reasons. Now, at least, noise abatement requirements have been lifted, and pilots don't have to cut back power after take-off. That makes those tight turns after take-off a little bit safer, and it gets those aircraft away from DC a little faster.

04-02-2002, 12:27 PM	#1
Sean1999 Ram Air TA Senior Collector Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 249	Frontier Jet Breaks Washington Flight Ban http://news.airwise.com/display/stor...017743112.html A US passenger jet broke air security regulations and flew over the White House after leaving Washington's Reagan National Airport, the Federal Aviation Administration has confirmed. The incident, which happened Monday and involved a Frontier Airlines Boeing 737, has been blamed on an error by the pilot. The plane, en route to Denver, flew through airspace over central Washington which has been restricted and patrolled by military fighter aircraft since last year's terrorist attacks. After being contacted by controllers the Frontier pilot acknowledged his navigational mistake but was allowed to continue the flight. The FAA said Flight 819 missed a turning point shortly after take-off and was monitored by security agencies.

04-03-2002, 12:01 AM	#4
Jeff H Collector Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Vienna, VA Age: 31 Posts: 131	Well, you've gotta consider.... .....that every single one of those flights either into or out of DCA has a Federal Air Marshall on it. And furthermore, you pass over all the landmarks not 30 seconds from actual take-off - there's not a whole lot of time. So in order for a terrorist to take over the plane, he would have to overpower the Air Marshall, take over the cockpit during taxi, and then succesfully/taxi control the plane on the ground without raising any suspicion with the control tower. Yeah, the September 11 perp's were reasonably well trained pilots, but I don't think any of them could have accomplished all that without being noticed. So at the risk of sounding overconfident, I am not incredibly worried about an aircraft out of DCA being taken over.

04-03-2002, 01:46 AM	#8
Clip Model Goddess Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Portland, Oregon Age: 37 Posts: 1,313	Not ALL flights into and out of DCA carry Sky Marshals, but there are numerous other security measures in place that are exclusive to that airport. Many DCA flights, however, carry more than one Sky Marshal. You can be sure that DCA flights are the safest, from a security standpoint, in the country. It would, however, take a matter of seconds for a departing aircraft to stray from its course and fly through restricted airspace, as did that Frontier aircraft. Even prior to September 11, pilots would get their knuckles rapped for flying through a restricted area -- even if they lost an engine on climb-out and opted not to turn up river for safety reasons. Now, at least, noise abatement requirements have been lifted, and pilots don't have to cut back power after take-off. That makes those tight turns after take-off a little bit safer, and it gets those aircraft away from DC a little faster. __________________ Jet Delta's Big Flies

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04-02-2002, 03:43 PM	#2
NEADC9 Insane Collector Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Franklin, MA Posts: 981	Oooops! I recently flew out of there and most aircraft make a sharp left turn immediately after take off to avoid the "No-Fly Zone" I would imagine the conversation in the cockpit went something like this! Ah Captain, did you know there is an F-16 off our starboard wing!

04-02-2002, 09:07 PM	#3
TL925 Master Collector Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: London Age: 26 Posts: 529	I have no idea what sort of air defense Washington has, but if the plane really did fly over the White House, and although it was accidental, how long would it take to have theoretically nose dived into any of DC's landmarks. I couldn't imagine more than a minute. Although the plane was being monitered, could they have reacted if the plane had done that? I'm not saying they should have shot the plane down, but can anything like the 11th really be prevented with planes taking off from Raegan?

04-03-2002, 12:59 AM	#5
TL925 Master Collector Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: London Age: 26 Posts: 529	It's actually a somewhat funny story to tell now, although it was somewhat nerveracking when it actuall occured. When I was flying back to DC on America West after spending Thanksgiving at home last Novermber, we were circling around DC for a while. The pilot was telling us repeatedly that the reason we were circling around was due to weather, which was not too hard to believe since it was raining outside. After circling around for forty-five minutes, we were told by the pilot that we were being diverted to Dulles due to the weather. This was somewhat suprising to the passengers since Dulles is not all too far from National. However, once landing at Dulles, we were definitely suprised to be taxied to a remote part of the airport where we were soon surrounded by police cars and FBI SUV's...a somewhat interesting sight for a "weather" diversion. The pilot came on again saying he did not know what was happening, but that the FBI would be boarding the plane. After searching the plane and apparently being satisfied, the FBI left the plane at around 2:00 (3 hours after departure, and it's a 1 hour flight). We were then told by the pilot that we would immediatly fly back to National now that things were cleared up.

04-03-2002, 01:04 AM	#6
TL925 Master Collector Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: London Age: 26 Posts: 529	It's actually a somewhat funny story to tell now, although it was somewhat nerveracking when it actuall occured. When I was flying back to DC on America West after spending Thanksgiving at home last Novermber, we were circling around DC for a while. The pilot was telling us repeatedly that the reason we were circling around was due to weather, which was not too hard to believe since it was raining outside. After circling around for forty-five minutes, we were told by the pilot that we were being diverted to Dulles due to the weather. This was somewhat suprising to the passengers since Dulles is not all too far from National. However, once landing at Dulles, we were definitely suprised to be taxied to a remote part of the airport where we were soon surrounded by police cars and FBI SUV's...a somewhat interesting sight for a "weather" diversion. The pilot came on again saying he did not know what was happening, but that the FBI would be boarding the plane. After searching the plane and apparently being satisfied, the FBI left the plane at around 2:00 (3 hours after departure, and it's a 1 hour flight). We were then told by the pilot that we would immediatly fly back to National now that things were cleared up. However, since America West does not fly out of Dulles, we the airline had to contract Delta to service the plane, which ended up taking another 2 hours due to the "complexity" of the papers and payments. And at 5:30, our flight finally arrived at DCA. Definitely an interesting story. A friend of mine works for America West, and eventually I found out what happened on our flight. Apparently Post Sept 11th, flights into DCA are required to punch in a code changed daily which tells the tower at DCA that everything on board is OK. Our pilot just happened to forget and tried to play the odds by guessing a code...too bad it wasn't right. Hence the entire situation on the flight. I am not angry at the airline since the security measures were newly implemented, but I just think passengers deserve to have a better idea of what's going on in the future (even if it makes the pilot look like an idiot:-))