AA tightens the screw on former TWA employees (Once again)

Bill G · 03-21-2002, 08:16 PM

This information comes from a very reliable source as she lives under the same roof as I do and happens to be employed by a government agency with the initials of FAA.
The big wigs of AA have told the local FAA office that they will be down sizing the STL base to 100 aircraft. As we all know the 717's are going soon, next will be TWA's 767-300. AA will keep 30 TWA 757's and only 70 TWA MD-80's. More TWA agents, pilots, flight attendants, etc will be furloughed. While of course all AA employees will be spared.
Pretty dang sad, as a former TWA employee, I sure feel for all my friends who are still there. They just never seem to get a break.

Bill G

Scott · 03-21-2002, 08:43 PM

Very sad, Bill. We don't call AA the "sky nazis" or the "master race" without good cause.

AAMD11 · 03-24-2002, 08:24 AM

You guys do not think of the big picture. If it were not for AA ALL TWA employees would of been in the street, you could say AA saved TWA employes asses. They knew that something like this would happen, come on the airline was about to die and AA was the only airline brave enough to buy TWA. So if it were not for AA ALL TWA employees would of been in the line for food stamps, but thanx to AA most of them still have a job. I am sorry but I do not like when people bash AA.

Bill G · 03-24-2002, 11:14 AM

Then you better get used to it. AA screwed the TWA employess like they did the Reno Air and Air Cal employees. It's one thing for a company to merge, but it's another to treat ALL employees fairly. Yeah, we see the big picture all right and it's not a good one.

Bill G

AAMD11 · 03-24-2002, 12:23 PM

Thats your problem, I really dont give a rats ***. I can care less to what happens or what happened to TWA, Air Cal, or RenoAir employees.

aircanada · 03-24-2002, 02:16 PM

The problem AA and TWA are going through is similar to that of Air Canada and Canadain airlines where problems and fights are occuring because of the takeover,I think for both airlines AA and Air canada the employees should put all this behind and worktogether as one to make there current airline even better despite there feelings,and I also think management should treat all employes equally and fairly.

hope i didn't offend anyone,that's just the way I see it.

Bill G · 03-24-2002, 02:26 PM

Laughing over your reply AAMD11. You just proved my point!!!!

Bill G

Ozz · 03-24-2002, 03:00 PM

AAMD11, I imagine you'd be wailing a different song if for instance UA bought AA, downsized and turfed 60% of AA's employees while relegating the rest to the bottom of the senority list.
To say that you don't give a rat's ass about TWA, Reno or Air Cal's people gives the sky nazi title some credibility.

BTW Mapleflot used government money to kill Canadian then proceeded to screw the employees after bragging about how they saved them, a whole different senario.

Sentinel Chicken · 03-24-2002, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AAMD11
Thats your problem, I really dont give a rats ***. I can care less to what happens or what happened to TWA, Air Cal, or RenoAir employees.

That's a boneheaded comment, AAMD11. I spend a signficant part of my day interacting with the employees and families of not just American but other airlines as well as my town is heavily populated by airline employees due to the proximity of DFW- from the majors in the area like Delta and Southwest to airlines you wouldn't think of right away as having employees in the DFW area, like Northwest, Continental or United. All airline employees I have come to learn, no matter their beefs with management, put in their all to make their contribution to the airline and its day to day operations. And those who come from airlines that were acquired have plenty to add their new parent airline. I had the pleasure of knowing many TWA employees when I used to work in Kansas City and it would be folly to think that American isn't any better with them amongst their ranks now. Pull your head out of your ass, son. The world's a much bigger place when you do.

I quote William Patterson, founder of United Airlines and corporate legend- in 1933 he was running Boeing Air Transport and had just purchased Varney Air Lines and he was given a list of Varney employees to lay off. He responed "The personnel are three-quarters of an airline's assets. These people must be worth something or they wouldn't have built Varney up to be worth the $2 million we paid for it."

ROCK CHALK JAYHAWK!

03-24-2002, 08:23 PM

Good observations Doc. Merging is a messy venture that doesn't always turn out right. Okay, so now AA has three midwest hubs that are strategically placed to serve all east-west flow markets, but at what cost? This conversation could quickly go in the toilet (if it hasn't already) if you start pointing fingers. But there are some points that should be addressed. I'm not going to comment on them, but I want you guys to read them and hear what you think:

1) Union seniority: AA wants to protect their union groups and not "demote" them by integrating seniority lists equally. AA could claim the spoils of war go to the victor, and they can also accuse APA of forcing them to preserve AA jobs at the cost of TW.

2) Redundancy: not all positions are necessary following a merger because not all assets are retained. AA already reduced JFK service, will phase out 717s in the coming months, and plans to return other aircraft to their lessors. Therefore, you don't need all the rampers, gate agents, pilots, flight attendants and mechanics that the two companies previously employed. As for the management side, they aren't immune to the downsize bug as well. You don't need two pricing departments or scheduling groups, so some people have to go, be it an analyst or director. I think management cuts might be a bit more objective (they keep the best people), but I could be mistaken.

3) Costs: if you cut only the lowest ranking union labor the airline's unit cost will skyrocket. If AA furloughed the lowest seniorty employees from both companies they'd be left with some serious cost issues because the average pilot or FA or mechanic rate just rose dramatically. AA's treatment of TW labor groups could be an attempt to keep costs in check.

My impression of the TW workers, based upon the ones I've met is quite possitive. Just because the company was doomed (you can't run a hub airline with just one hub) doesn't mean the employees weren't top notch. Why did the company fail? Pillaging by the likes of Icahn, selling off valuable assets to stay afloat (LHR), and paying higher costs for aircraft, fuel, insurance, etc. because of their bad credit rating is what killed them. I think AAMD11 is being a bit harsh, but at the same time I do see his point: he works (presumably) for AA, the acquirer. Why should he lose his job when his company is the dominant one? That's not to say that TW has nothing to offer, but what is the happy medium?

AAMD11 · 03-24-2002, 09:37 PM

BE GONE!!!!

Scott · 03-25-2002, 01:01 AM

AAMD11, you're on track to make friends and influence collectors on this forum! I don't take affront to what you post, but how you express yourself. Are you a poor stepson of Bob Crandall?
And BTW, the MD-11 "be gone" from AA. Why don't you "be gone" from DAC?

, loser!

AAMD11 · 03-25-2002, 02:26 AM

Open up for now!!!!!!!

KevinO · 03-25-2002, 12:10 PM

After reading this, "AA" in "AAMD11" does not stand for "American Airlines" it stands for "Arrogant A**hole." Have some compassion you freak, if you were in TWA's shoes you would not be talking out of your a** like you are now.

Chansen · 03-25-2002, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scott
Very sad, Bill. We don't call AA the "sky nazis" or the "master race" without good cause.

I hate to see good people loose their jobs!

Clip · 03-25-2002, 07:26 PM

Lovely. An 18-year-old "student" discussing people's careers and futures, as if he knows anything about either. Fool. Bill G has forgotten more about aviation than you will ever know.

Tony Sepanski · 03-25-2002, 08:04 PM

Clip, I think you've been overly generous in characterizing AA-whatever as an "18 year old student". It's my impression he's among the thousands of pathetic youngsters who inhabit the internet these days with nothing to say, nothing to contribute and no future to look forward to.

I do appreciate the thread that this has spurred, however. It does make monetary sense, what AA is doing. However, is it Right?

Bill G · 03-26-2002, 12:36 AM

The bad news concerning AA and their treatment of former Ozark and TWA employees just dosen't end.
You may remember late last year in a post regarding AA taking away the pass benefits for those of us who took an early retirement package. My pass benefits on TWA were taken away by AA without notice two weeks after being told by AA they would be honored.
Today I received notification from AA that they will not honor my Ozark pension plan. When I finally got through to someone from AA, I was told I was pretty much S.O.L. concerning the money that I was due to receive when I retired.
Somehow this just dosen't seem legal to me, let alone fair. Anyone in the forum with a legal background know anything that can be done in this matter.
BTW, if your 18 and a smart ***, you need not bother to reply to this. Trust me on this one.

Bill G

Ozz · 03-26-2002, 01:11 AM

OK, that's got to be illegal, a pension fund is something you pay into and is not the property of the employer. In Canada the pensions are held by a third party to prevent this kind of BS.
I'll bet a class action suit filed by all the former Ozarki's would get their attention. Who do they think they are anyway, the Teamsters?
I feel for you and your "shipmates".
I hope it works out.

AAMD11 · 03-26-2002, 01:42 AM

I know I am smart.

DavidMich · 03-26-2002, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bill G
The bad news concerning AA and their treatment of former Ozark and TWA employees just dosen't end.
You may remember late last year in a post regarding AA taking away the pass benefits for those of us who took an early retirement package. My pass benefits on TWA were taken away by AA without notice two weeks after being told by AA they would be honored.
Today I received notification from AA that they will not honor my Ozark pension plan. When I finally got through to someone from AA, I was told I was pretty much S.O.L. concerning the money that I was due to receive when I retired.
Somehow this just dosen't seem legal to me, let alone fair. Anyone in the forum with a legal background know anything that can be done in this matter.
BTW, if your 18 and a smart ***, you need not bother to reply to this. Trust me on this one.

Bill G

Bill, if I was you, I'd get me a lawyer.

Sentinel Chicken · 03-26-2002, 09:55 AM

All right, Hector (AAMD11), there's a few things you need to think about-

1. You're not doing your family or friends at American any favors by being an asshole on the forums.
2. It's easy to be a tough guy when you have a computer screen to hide behind.
3. Some of us know who you are personally and will be seeing you again in the future and I seriously doubt you have the stones to talk like you do to me or anyone else here the childish way you do IN PERSON.

Think about that, son, before you post again in future.

ROCK CHALK JAYHAWK!

AAMD11 · 03-26-2002, 10:44 AM

I have met you before, at the C.R.Smith meeting. I will be seeing you again soon. I am not scared of you nor any of the people in here, what can be the worst they can do, just kill me? hahahahahahaha. I am not scared of death. Ill be seeing you the 30th in the meeting. Talk to you there.

Bill G · 03-26-2002, 11:00 AM

Ok, the news is better this morning in regards to the Ozark pension plan. I called several former Ozark flight attendants who are in the same boat I am. One was able to get a little more information out of AA than I was able to.
It is illegal to void out one's pension. What AA has done is change companies of the third party is who handling this account.
MetLife is now handling all former Ozark flight attendant's pension. I called Metlife this morning, my account has been transferred and is intact. Whew!
According to the representative at MetLife they have been swamped with calls from former Ozark employees concerning this matter as the letter AA sent out was as clear as mud and very misleading.
I also found out there is a class action lawsuit against AA by the former OZ and TWA employees who unfairly had their pass benefits taken away from them. I suppose time will tell how this plays out.

Bill G

03-21-2002, 08:16 PM	#1
Bill G Insane Collector Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Springfield, MO Posts: 1,227	AA tightens the screw on former TWA employees (Once again) This information comes from a very reliable source as she lives under the same roof as I do and happens to be employed by a government agency with the initials of FAA. The big wigs of AA have told the local FAA office that they will be down sizing the STL base to 100 aircraft. As we all know the 717's are going soon, next will be TWA's 767-300. AA will keep 30 TWA 757's and only 70 TWA MD-80's. More TWA agents, pilots, flight attendants, etc will be furloughed. While of course all AA employees will be spared. Pretty dang sad, as a former TWA employee, I sure feel for all my friends who are still there. They just never seem to get a break. Bill G __________________ *Ozark Flies Your Way* FEES DON'T FLY AT SOUTHWEST

03-21-2002, 08:43 PM	#2
Scott Insane Collector Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Escondido, Ca. USA Age: 50 Posts: 2,763	Very sad, Bill. We don't call AA the "sky nazis" or the "master race" without good cause. __________________ Fly the Friendly Skies of United uniTED takes wing Feb 12, 2004

03-24-2002, 08:24 AM	#3
AAMD11 Master Collector Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Coruscant Posts: 707	Sad but they knew. You guys do not think of the big picture. If it were not for AA ALL TWA employees would of been in the street, you could say AA saved TWA employes asses. They knew that something like this would happen, come on the airline was about to die and AA was the only airline brave enough to buy TWA. So if it were not for AA ALL TWA employees would of been in the line for food stamps, but thanx to AA most of them still have a job. I am sorry but I do not like when people bash AA. __________________ American Airlines An airline proud to bear the name, American A mi no me importas tu ni veinte como tu, yo sigo siempre en el goce...El del ritmo no eras tu

03-24-2002, 11:14 AM	#4
Bill G Insane Collector Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Springfield, MO Posts: 1,227	AA Basher Then you better get used to it. AA screwed the TWA employess like they did the Reno Air and Air Cal employees. It's one thing for a company to merge, but it's another to treat ALL employees fairly. Yeah, we see the big picture all right and it's not a good one. Bill G __________________ *Ozark Flies Your Way* FEES DON'T FLY AT SOUTHWEST Last edited by Bill G; 03-24-2002 at 11:16 AM.

03-24-2002, 12:23 PM	#5
AAMD11 Master Collector Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Coruscant Posts: 707	Oh well Thats your problem, I really dont give a rats ***. I can care less to what happens or what happened to TWA, Air Cal, or RenoAir employees. __________________ American Airlines An airline proud to bear the name, American A mi no me importas tu ni veinte como tu, yo sigo siempre en el goce...El del ritmo no eras tu

03-24-2002, 02:16 PM	#6
aircanada Collector Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Toronto Posts: 136	The problem AA and TWA are going through is similar to that of Air Canada and Canadain airlines where problems and fights are occuring because of the takeover,I think for both airlines AA and Air canada the employees should put all this behind and worktogether as one to make there current airline even better despite there feelings,and I also think management should treat all employes equally and fairly. hope i didn't offend anyone,that's just the way I see it. __________________ 767 rules the skies Last edited by aircanada; 03-24-2002 at 02:20 PM.

03-24-2002, 02:26 PM	#7
Bill G Insane Collector Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Springfield, MO Posts: 1,227	Typical Laughing over your reply AAMD11. You just proved my point!!!! Bill G __________________ *Ozark Flies Your Way* FEES DON'T FLY AT SOUTHWEST

03-24-2002, 03:00 PM	#8
Ozz Insane Collector Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Canada (CYVR) Age: 51 Posts: 2,763	AAMD11, I imagine you'd be wailing a different song if for instance UA bought AA, downsized and turfed 60% of AA's employees while relegating the rest to the bottom of the senority list. To say that you don't give a rat's ass about TWA, Reno or Air Cal's people gives the sky nazi title some credibility. BTW Mapleflot used government money to kill Canadian then proceeded to screw the employees after bragging about how they saved them, a whole different senario. __________________ Ozz ORANGE IS BEAUTIFUL *GO WESTJET!!!* We need more CPAir/CDN and don't forget PWA and BA Landor!

03-24-2002, 08:23 PM	#10
CAL 757-300 Guest Posts: n/a	Good observations Doc. Merging is a messy venture that doesn't always turn out right. Okay, so now AA has three midwest hubs that are strategically placed to serve all east-west flow markets, but at what cost? This conversation could quickly go in the toilet (if it hasn't already) if you start pointing fingers. But there are some points that should be addressed. I'm not going to comment on them, but I want you guys to read them and hear what you think: 1) Union seniority: AA wants to protect their union groups and not "demote" them by integrating seniority lists equally. AA could claim the spoils of war go to the victor, and they can also accuse APA of forcing them to preserve AA jobs at the cost of TW. 2) Redundancy: not all positions are necessary following a merger because not all assets are retained. AA already reduced JFK service, will phase out 717s in the coming months, and plans to return other aircraft to their lessors. Therefore, you don't need all the rampers, gate agents, pilots, flight attendants and mechanics that the two companies previously employed. As for the management side, they aren't immune to the downsize bug as well. You don't need two pricing departments or scheduling groups, so some people have to go, be it an analyst or director. I think management cuts might be a bit more objective (they keep the best people), but I could be mistaken. 3) Costs: if you cut only the lowest ranking union labor the airline's unit cost will skyrocket. If AA furloughed the lowest seniorty employees from both companies they'd be left with some serious cost issues because the average pilot or FA or mechanic rate just rose dramatically. AA's treatment of TW labor groups could be an attempt to keep costs in check. My impression of the TW workers, based upon the ones I've met is quite possitive. Just because the company was doomed (you can't run a hub airline with just one hub) doesn't mean the employees weren't top notch. Why did the company fail? Pillaging by the likes of Icahn, selling off valuable assets to stay afloat (LHR), and paying higher costs for aircraft, fuel, insurance, etc. because of their bad credit rating is what killed them. I think AAMD11 is being a bit harsh, but at the same time I do see his point: he works (presumably) for AA, the acquirer. Why should he lose his job when his company is the dominant one? That's not to say that TW has nothing to offer, but what is the happy medium?

03-24-2002, 09:37 PM	#11
AAMD11 Master Collector Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Coruscant Posts: 707	Thats nice Keep it up! I have more important things to attend to, like whooping *** BE GONE!!!! __________________ American Airlines An airline proud to bear the name, American A mi no me importas tu ni veinte como tu, yo sigo siempre en el goce...El del ritmo no eras tu

03-25-2002, 01:01 AM	#12
Scott Insane Collector Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Escondido, Ca. USA Age: 50 Posts: 2,763	AAMD11, you're on track to make friends and influence collectors on this forum! I don't take affront to what you post, but how you express yourself. Are you a poor stepson of Bob Crandall? And BTW, the MD-11 "be gone" from AA. Why don't you "be gone" from DAC? , loser! __________________ Fly the Friendly Skies of United uniTED takes wing Feb 12, 2004

03-25-2002, 02:26 AM	#13
AAMD11 Master Collector Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Coruscant Posts: 707	Open up for now!!!!!!! __________________ American Airlines An airline proud to bear the name, American A mi no me importas tu ni veinte como tu, yo sigo siempre en el goce...El del ritmo no eras tu

03-25-2002, 12:10 PM	#14
KevinO Senior Collector Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: St. Peters, MO, USA Age: 36 Posts: 183	After reading this, "AA" in "AAMD11" does not stand for "American Airlines" it stands for "Arrogant Ahole." Have some compassion you freak, if you were in TWA's shoes you would not be talking out of your a like you are now.

03-25-2002, 07:26 PM	#16
Clip Model Goddess Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Portland, Oregon Age: 37 Posts: 1,313	Lovely. An 18-year-old "student" discussing people's careers and futures, as if he knows anything about either. Fool. Bill G has forgotten more about aviation than you will ever know. __________________ Jet Delta's Big Flies

03-25-2002, 08:04 PM	#17
Tony Sepanski Master Collector Join Date: May 2000 Location: Seattle, WA, USA Posts: 798	Clip, I think you've been overly generous in characterizing AA-whatever as an "18 year old student". It's my impression he's among the thousands of pathetic youngsters who inhabit the internet these days with nothing to say, nothing to contribute and no future to look forward to. I do appreciate the thread that this has spurred, however. It does make monetary sense, what AA is doing. However, is it Right?

03-26-2002, 12:36 AM	#18
Bill G Insane Collector Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Springfield, MO Posts: 1,227	Here we go again The bad news concerning AA and their treatment of former Ozark and TWA employees just dosen't end. You may remember late last year in a post regarding AA taking away the pass benefits for those of us who took an early retirement package. My pass benefits on TWA were taken away by AA without notice two weeks after being told by AA they would be honored. Today I received notification from AA that they will not honor my Ozark pension plan. When I finally got through to someone from AA, I was told I was pretty much S.O.L. concerning the money that I was due to receive when I retired. Somehow this just dosen't seem legal to me, let alone fair. Anyone in the forum with a legal background know anything that can be done in this matter. BTW, if your 18 and a smart *, you need not bother to reply to this. Trust me on this one. Bill G __________________ Ozark Flies Your Way** FEES DON'T FLY AT SOUTHWEST Last edited by Bill G; 03-26-2002 at 12:41 AM.

03-26-2002, 01:11 AM	#19
Ozz Insane Collector Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Canada (CYVR) Age: 51 Posts: 2,763	OK, that's got to be illegal, a pension fund is something you pay into and is not the property of the employer. In Canada the pensions are held by a third party to prevent this kind of BS. I'll bet a class action suit filed by all the former Ozarki's would get their attention. Who do they think they are anyway, the Teamsters? I feel for you and your "shipmates". I hope it works out. __________________ Ozz ORANGE IS BEAUTIFUL *GO WESTJET!!!* We need more CPAir/CDN and don't forget PWA and BA Landor!

03-26-2002, 01:42 AM	#20
AAMD11 Master Collector Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Coruscant Posts: 707	Hahahahahahahaha!!!!!!! I know I am smart. __________________ American Airlines An airline proud to bear the name, American A mi no me importas tu ni veinte como tu, yo sigo siempre en el goce...El del ritmo no eras tu

03-26-2002, 09:55 AM	#22
Sentinel Chicken Go-Getters Go Ozark Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: DFW/THE GREAT STATE OF TEXAS Posts: 4,167	All right, Hector (AAMD11), there's a few things you need to think about- 1. You're not doing your family or friends at American any favors by being an asshole on the forums. 2. It's easy to be a tough guy when you have a computer screen to hide behind. 3. Some of us know who you are personally and will be seeing you again in the future and I seriously doubt you have the stones to talk like you do to me or anyone else here the childish way you do IN PERSON. Think about that, son, before you post again in future. ROCK CHALK JAYHAWK! __________________ *Piss on noise abatement!*

03-26-2002, 10:44 AM	#23
AAMD11 Master Collector Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Coruscant Posts: 707	Sentinel Chicken I have met you before, at the C.R.Smith meeting. I will be seeing you again soon. I am not scared of you nor any of the people in here, what can be the worst they can do, just kill me? hahahahahahaha. I am not scared of death. Ill be seeing you the 30th in the meeting. Talk to you there. __________________ American Airlines An airline proud to bear the name, American A mi no me importas tu ni veinte como tu, yo sigo siempre en el goce...El del ritmo no eras tu

03-26-2002, 11:00 AM	#24
Bill G Insane Collector Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Springfield, MO Posts: 1,227	Ozark pension plan Ok, the news is better this morning in regards to the Ozark pension plan. I called several former Ozark flight attendants who are in the same boat I am. One was able to get a little more information out of AA than I was able to. It is illegal to void out one's pension. What AA has done is change companies of the third party is who handling this account. MetLife is now handling all former Ozark flight attendant's pension. I called Metlife this morning, my account has been transferred and is intact. Whew! According to the representative at MetLife they have been swamped with calls from former Ozark employees concerning this matter as the letter AA sent out was as clear as mud and very misleading. I also found out there is a class action lawsuit against AA by the former OZ and TWA employees who unfairly had their pass benefits taken away from them. I suppose time will tell how this plays out. Bill G __________________ *Ozark Flies Your Way* FEES DON'T FLY AT SOUTHWEST Last edited by Bill G; 03-26-2002 at 11:05 AM.