Alliances

justin · 02-10-2002, 02:32 PM

In the last 10 year the nirvana of the whole airline world has seemed to be the alliance, and most big players have been scrambling around trying to get into an alliance. Star, Skyteam, One World, KLM/NW and Qualifier the famous ones. The logic has been to survive an airline needs to position itself in an alliance, but is it a pile of garbage? Recent months have shown good, well managed airlines well focused on their market survive and prosper (SW, Ryanair to name two) whether or not they have an alliance, while inept management will sink an airline even if they're in the worlds most powerful alliance (Ansett, Air New Zealand). I feel management have looked at the alliance as an alternative to good old fashioned efficient operation and sound finances and giving the customer what they want, as if the alliance was a panacea that would take them into another reality where profits would spiral up and they were shielded from economic realities. Star Alliance didn't prevent UAL running into a financial mess, now I know Star is not to blame for UAL's mess, but given that management have been using long term survival and viability as reliant on the alliance system does it not seem that theory has more holes than a Swiss cheese? There seems to be no relationship between the financial performance of airlines in or out of alliances, so is the system over hyped and empty? Anybody elses opinion?

Justin

AAMD11 · 03-24-2002, 08:52 AM

Well I just know the basics, and Oneworld would be my Alliance since I am an AA flyer. Oneworld consists of the worlds greatest airlines, true that Star has some good ones like LH, but you cant go wrong with the Kings of the sky like AA, BA, and QF.

Stanman · 03-24-2002, 09:27 AM

Alliances are a marketing tool which airlines in general use to provide more connections and more destinations to mainly business and full fare economy travelers than they would otherwise. Depending on how one uses an alliance it can save some money on some routes where two alliance members essentially code share a particular route. i.e. ANA/United on NRT-LAX and a few others. You'll also see UA and some other Star Alliance on a Thai flight. While being in an alliance is no guarantee of success, it also helps ally a weaker airline with other airlines to provide possibly more market share than they might otherwise have.

The airlines could also do code shares as well to increase market and decrease cost but those are usually done on an individual basis and might take more planning.

If you happen to fly apex or less than full fare economy, the star alliance doesn't seem to hold many benefits in terms of travelling to particular destinations since an airline usually only discounts the routes it actually serves. It does make it easier to earn more mileage frequent flyer miles however. Whether you'll ever actually get to use those miles is another question.

justin · 04-06-2002, 07:44 AM

What I find interesting is that outside codeshares and alliances, many airlines will still sell a through ticket and issue boarding cards at the point of departure for flights involving another airline. For instance, I often fly a route where I change between BA and LH, and it's not a problem even though they're in different alliances. My own opinion the alliance is potentially a good idea, BUT, it is dangerous when it makes management think they live in a dream world where they don't have to worry about such insignificant things as operating efficiency, good service etc.

Justin

Scott · 04-06-2002, 04:45 PM

Take a look at alliances through the prism of another decade or so. I believe they are a public relations and political prelude to increased cross-border equity and cabotage. Cabotage would permit a "foreign" carrier to fly segments wholly within the borders of another sovereign state. Examples include UA flying local traffic between Frankfurt and Munich, LH operating San Francisco to Chicago. U.S. labor views this as a major challenge, as the domestic market is a large proportion of the global venue. I guarantee this to be a major source of contention over the next few years.

02-10-2002, 02:32 PM	#1
justin Insane Collector Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 2,005	Alliances In the last 10 year the nirvana of the whole airline world has seemed to be the alliance, and most big players have been scrambling around trying to get into an alliance. Star, Skyteam, One World, KLM/NW and Qualifier the famous ones. The logic has been to survive an airline needs to position itself in an alliance, but is it a pile of garbage? Recent months have shown good, well managed airlines well focused on their market survive and prosper (SW, Ryanair to name two) whether or not they have an alliance, while inept management will sink an airline even if they're in the worlds most powerful alliance (Ansett, Air New Zealand). I feel management have looked at the alliance as an alternative to good old fashioned efficient operation and sound finances and giving the customer what they want, as if the alliance was a panacea that would take them into another reality where profits would spiral up and they were shielded from economic realities. Star Alliance didn't prevent UAL running into a financial mess, now I know Star is not to blame for UAL's mess, but given that management have been using long term survival and viability as reliant on the alliance system does it not seem that theory has more holes than a Swiss cheese? There seems to be no relationship between the financial performance of airlines in or out of alliances, so is the system over hyped and empty? Anybody elses opinion? Justin

03-24-2002, 08:52 AM	#2
AAMD11 Master Collector Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Coruscant Posts: 707	yo Well I just know the basics, and Oneworld would be my Alliance since I am an AA flyer. Oneworld consists of the worlds greatest airlines, true that Star has some good ones like LH, but you cant go wrong with the Kings of the sky like AA, BA, and QF. __________________ American Airlines An airline proud to bear the name, American A mi no me importas tu ni veinte como tu, yo sigo siempre en el goce...El del ritmo no eras tu

04-06-2002, 04:45 PM	#5
Scott Insane Collector Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Escondido, Ca. USA Age: 50 Posts: 2,763	Take a look at alliances through the prism of another decade or so. I believe they are a public relations and political prelude to increased cross-border equity and cabotage. Cabotage would permit a "foreign" carrier to fly segments wholly within the borders of another sovereign state. Examples include UA flying local traffic between Frankfurt and Munich, LH operating San Francisco to Chicago. U.S. labor views this as a major challenge, as the domestic market is a large proportion of the global venue. I guarantee this to be a major source of contention over the next few years. __________________ Fly the Friendly Skies of United uniTED takes wing Feb 12, 2004

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03-24-2002, 09:27 AM	#3
Stanman Senior Collector Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Waxahachie, Texas, USA Posts: 426	Alliances are a marketing tool which airlines in general use to provide more connections and more destinations to mainly business and full fare economy travelers than they would otherwise. Depending on how one uses an alliance it can save some money on some routes where two alliance members essentially code share a particular route. i.e. ANA/United on NRT-LAX and a few others. You'll also see UA and some other Star Alliance on a Thai flight. While being in an alliance is no guarantee of success, it also helps ally a weaker airline with other airlines to provide possibly more market share than they might otherwise have. The airlines could also do code shares as well to increase market and decrease cost but those are usually done on an individual basis and might take more planning. If you happen to fly apex or less than full fare economy, the star alliance doesn't seem to hold many benefits in terms of travelling to particular destinations since an airline usually only discounts the routes it actually serves. It does make it easier to earn more mileage frequent flyer miles however. Whether you'll ever actually get to use those miles is another question.

04-06-2002, 07:44 AM	#4
justin Insane Collector Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 2,005	What I find interesting is that outside codeshares and alliances, many airlines will still sell a through ticket and issue boarding cards at the point of departure for flights involving another airline. For instance, I often fly a route where I change between BA and LH, and it's not a problem even though they're in different alliances. My own opinion the alliance is potentially a good idea, BUT, it is dangerous when it makes management think they live in a dream world where they don't have to worry about such insignificant things as operating efficiency, good service etc. Justin