Worst Airline C.E.O. of all time

SonicCruiser · 12-28-2001, 03:49 PM

Okay people,

Please submit your nominations for the worst airline C.E.O. of all
time. Please state your opinions (like I have to ask for those!) as
to why you feel that way.

Would welcome names other than the obvious ones we have
all heard so much about such as:
Lorenzo
Carty
Goodwin
Ichan
the guy from Swissair (forgot his name)
Wolf
Gangwal
Ferris etc...

release the dogs..!

AlphaSigOU · 12-28-2001, 04:49 PM

Top of my list:

Francisco A. (Frank) Lorenzo - Murdered one airline (Eastern), left another one beaten up to within an inch of its life (Continental), while chewing up two airlines in the process (PeoplExpress, Frontier).

Carl Icahn - Took TWA to the cleaners and shook 'em down for all they were worth. Heroic attempt by Capt. Compton notwithstanding, they were already on the ropes when a certain AAirline bought up what was left at fire sale prices.

Stephen Wolf - Master of buying up airlines and then throwing them out like so much used toilet paper - but not before he has all the planes painted blue (his favorite color).

Bob Crandall - Predatory tactics (just this side of legal) to eliminate competition was his way of life. Who's for lunch? (Chairman Herb at Southwest already served him his just dessert of simulated whale sh*t (a big tub of chocolate pudding with a tiny Sea World of Texas souvenir spoon).)

The management at Pan Am - Glorious results of bonehead moves to stay competitive in a deregulated market (such as paying way too much to acquire National). Delta takes one look at them and runs for the hills.

Scott · 12-28-2001, 05:21 PM

Great bios, Chuck! Too hard to pick a "favorite" villain. Perhaps Goodwin at UAL? Lots to consider from all constituencies: Wall street despised him for "caving" in to ALPA and awarding pilots a record contract. Labor loathed his rudderless leadership both prior to and after 9-11. Conspiracy theorists link him to a Wolf-inspired plot to "take down" UAL. And the "perish" letter caused all involved to circle the wagons and cast Jimmy into oblivion.
For more insight into the cast of characters, "Hard Landing" by Tom Petzinger is a must-read. I've said it here before, this is a fabulous book. No doubt an updated version is on the authors' mind!

Sentinel Chicken · 12-28-2001, 05:43 PM

No question 'bout it, Frank Lorenzo ranks as the darkest of evils visited upon the airline industry. Even in light of the rough times of post-deregulation in the 1980s that often called for hard/heavy handed leadership, Frankie outdid them all so well that he's been banned from the airline industry for life. That's a piece of work when the government and the industry as a whole don't want you back. It's too bad Frankie ran Don Burr off, Don Burr had a ideas he called "Precepts" that called for the proper treatment of the employees as a way to build success and profitability. Burr went on to form PeoplExpress and the irony of Continental acquiring them is striking. Some even say that Frankie's heavy handed treatment of Frontier led to it's former president, Al Feldman, to commit suicide. The old Frontier folks say that the day Al Feldman took his life he took the soul of the airline with him.

Carl Icahn ranks a distant second to Lorenzo thanks to his Karabu ticketing agreement that he saddled TWA with like a dead albatross around the neck. Talk about dealing with the devil, he clearly took advantage of TWA at a dire point in their history and had it not been for Karabu, Compton might have had a fighting chance. When I was practicing in Kansas City, I got the chance to take care of a more than a handful of TWA employees and I must say I was quite impressed with the fighting spirit they displayed to keep their airline going.

Hard Landing was one of the most entertaining books I've read in a while and quite the revealing look at the airline industry's boardrooms.

AlphaSigOU · 12-28-2001, 06:22 PM

Hafta agree with ya, Dr. Chicken - Thomas Petzinger's book, Hard Landing is highly recommended, and part of my aviation library.

Frank Borman wasn't too bad at Eastern, until he got into the p*ssing contest with the IAM and its local president, whose name I don't remember offhand. (Charlie White, right?)
'Destroying the airline in order to save it' by selling out to Lorenzo didn't help matters much, either.

Sentinel Chicken · 12-28-2001, 06:59 PM

Charlie Bryan was the head of the IAM at Eastern and was a well-known anti-management zealot. However, that's not necessarily the proximate cause of Eastern's downfall, though the militancy he inspired at Eastern sure wasn't expected by Frankie. He was planning to break the unions as he had done at Continental, but he didn't anticipate that the Eastern's unions had learned from the unions at Contintental. Toss in a real firebrand like Bryan, and the stage was set with two opposing forces led by equally passionate/obstinate leaders (Frankie vs. Charlie).

At Continental Frankie took advantage of a loophole in the bankruptcy laws that allowed him to abrogate the union contracts. Unfortunately for him, Congress plugged that hole by the time he took over at Eastern. He might have broken the machinists' union alone, but he didn't count on the pilots and FAs honoring the picket lines. Like a classic greedy corporate raiding dumba**, Frankie didn't deal, he went to court. And lost. And got branded "UNFIT TO RUN AN AIRLINE".

But there's still a debate to this day whether or not Charlie Bryan contributed to Eastern's fall. I don't think so, despite his militancy (hell, he even freaked out the other IAM leadership), but having him at the helm of the IAM when Frankie came to town was like tossing 50 gallons of Jet-A on a fire.

DavidMich · 12-28-2001, 08:44 PM

Hey don't forget our good buddy Ron Allen

(you Delta kats know whut i mean)

Jeremy · 12-28-2001, 09:00 PM

This is easy!
I am not sure of the spelling but I vote for Ed Beauvais from America Worst and Western Pacific.
This guy can't keep airlines going. He has good ideas and then blows them!
I remeber this guy talking about how Japan is the market of the future, Yeah! Maybe Tokyo, but not PHX-HNL-NGO on an old 747-200.
Another guy which I am not sure of the spelling is Sid Sedyki from Grand Airways. I believe he is banned from running another airline in the U.S.

DFW · 12-28-2001, 09:33 PM

Hey alpha sig, how in the world can you include Crandall in this list of losers?!

American would not be what it is today if it wasn't for him!!! He did a hell of a job at AA. Maybe he wasn't the nicest of guys, but he was a freakin' genius. He turned American into one of the best global airlines, if not the best.

hernan · 12-28-2001, 09:40 PM

The clowns from us airways.

Ozz · 12-28-2001, 09:50 PM

Bob "The Knob" Milton chief anal orifice of Mapleflot for his predatory practices and the destruction of the airline industry in Canada.

AlphaSigOU · 12-29-2001, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DFW
Hey alpha sig, how in the world can you include Crandall in this list of losers?!

American would not be what it is today if it wasn't for him!!! He did a hell of a job at AA. Maybe he wasn't the nicest of guys, but he was a freakin' genius. He turned American into one of the best global airlines, if not the best.

Actually, Crandall did a hell of a job keeping AA running into the powerhouse it is today, though his tactics left much to be desired. As the Japanese say, 'business is war', and he sure knew how to fight a war. True, he shouldn't really be lumped with the other 'losers' except for that particular trait.

Scott · 12-29-2001, 04:52 PM

Huh huh huh ya talking 'bout my buddy Beavis, not Beauvais from America West? Huh huh uh huh. He's never gonna score!

DavidMich · 12-30-2001, 12:34 PM

heh heh m heh, shutup Fartknocker! heh heh heh, i get all the chicks, heh heh Damm i'm smooth! heh heh

carmy · 12-31-2001, 01:12 AM

What about the Air NZ guy, Gary Toomey or something. He sure screwed up Ansett big time. At least that's what I hear.

Sean1999 Ram Air TA · 12-31-2001, 12:24 PM

Such a nice list and soo many nice guys to choose from

I would have to say

Ferris in the 80's, Wolf in the early 90's, and Dip**** Goodwin in the late 90's to 01.

Q-What do all 3 of these clowns have in common

A- All 3 tried to and failed to Sink UAL

And if history repeats itself UAL once again will recover after the damage each one of these A$$holes did to UAL

Sean

AlphaSigOU · 12-31-2001, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sean1999 Ram Air TA
Such a nice list and soo many nice guys to choose from

I would have to say

Ferris in the 80's, Wolf in the early 90's, and Dip**** Goodwin in the late 90's to 01.

Q-What do all 3 of these clowns have in common

A- All 3 tried to and failed to Sink UAL

And if history repeats itself UAL once again will recover after the damage each one of these A$$holes did to UAL

'Pat' Patterson's probably spinning in his grave to see United Airlines (which he founded) in such a sorry state that it is today. UAL will eventually recover in the long run.

niels · 01-03-2002, 03:41 PM

Ed Acker should be on the list.......

Wingman · 01-03-2002, 08:57 PM

If you want to get historical about it, then I would add the following names:

1) Harding Lawerance
2) George T. Seawell
3) C.E. Meyer
4) William Franke

What do you think?

______________________________________

WE NEED A TWA B747SP!!!!!

L-1011-200F · 01-04-2002, 12:41 PM

Frank Lorenzo is the winner !!!

-200F

Chansen · 01-04-2002, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by L-1011-200F
Frank Lorenzo is the winner !!!

-200F

I agree that frankly Frank takes the cake on that!

Jeremy · 01-04-2002, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wingman
If you want to get historical about it, then I would add the following names:

1) Harding Lawerance
2) George T. Seawell
3) C.E. Meyer
4) William Franke

What do you think?

______________________________________

WE NEED A TWA B747SP!!!!!

I agree with you on Bill Franke.
He is a good businessman but a terrible people person.

Eureeky · 01-04-2002, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hernan
The clowns from us airways.

I like the way you think guy!

Paul Barkley (former PSA CEO) deserves at least Honorable Mention. Talk about selling out. As soon as Bill Shimp died (last one of the PSA founders I believe), Barkley couldn't position PSA for sale fast enough.

The clowns at USAirways are indeed pure evil. I have never worked for a more un-truthful group in my life. All they wanted from that deal were PSA's MD-80's for their east coast runs and that's about all they actually paid for when they bought PSA. The rest was gravy. Day-one of the merger we were seeing MD-80's all of a sudden being slated to do one way coast-to-coast flights and they were never heard from again. Then began the methodical and deliberate dismantling of everything PSA.

There are many stories... but the thing they hated most was that smile. It pis*ed 'em off royally for some reason.

12-28-2001, 03:49 PM	#1
SonicCruiser Collector Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Greenwood, Indiana, USA Posts: 75	Worst Airline C.E.O. of all time Okay people, Please submit your nominations for the worst airline C.E.O. of all time. Please state your opinions (like I have to ask for those!) as to why you feel that way. Would welcome names other than the obvious ones we have all heard so much about such as: Lorenzo Carty Goodwin Ichan the guy from Swissair (forgot his name) Wolf Gangwal Ferris etc... release the dogs..!

12-28-2001, 04:49 PM	#2
AlphaSigOU Insane Collector Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: Wylie, Texas Age: 43 Posts: 1,419	Top of my list: Francisco A. (Frank) Lorenzo - Murdered one airline (Eastern), left another one beaten up to within an inch of its life (Continental), while chewing up two airlines in the process (PeoplExpress, Frontier). Carl Icahn - Took TWA to the cleaners and shook 'em down for all they were worth. Heroic attempt by Capt. Compton notwithstanding, they were already on the ropes when a certain AAirline bought up what was left at fire sale prices. Stephen Wolf - Master of buying up airlines and then throwing them out like so much used toilet paper - but not before he has all the planes painted blue (his favorite color). Bob Crandall - Predatory tactics (just this side of legal) to eliminate competition was his way of life. Who's for lunch? (Chairman Herb at Southwest already served him his just dessert of simulated whale sht (a big tub of chocolate pudding with a tiny Sea World of Texas souvenir spoon).) The management at Pan Am - Glorious results of bonehead moves to stay competitive in a deregulated market (such as paying way too much to acquire National). Delta takes one look at them and runs for the hills. __________________ Chuck Corway (AlphaSigOU)* *Causa latet vis est notissima* -- the cause is hidden, the results are well known. James Bond: "I'll take the full odds on the ten, two hundred on the hard way, the limit on all the numbers, two hundred and fifty on the eleven, thank you very much." Plenty O'Toole: "Hey! You've played this game before!" James Bond: "Just once." *REMEMBER THE ALAMO!!! REMEMBER PEARL HARBOR!!! REMEMBER SEPTEMBER 11!!!!*

12-28-2001, 05:21 PM	#3
Scott Insane Collector Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Escondido, Ca. USA Age: 50 Posts: 2,763	Great bios, Chuck! Too hard to pick a "favorite" villain. Perhaps Goodwin at UAL? Lots to consider from all constituencies: Wall street despised him for "caving" in to ALPA and awarding pilots a record contract. Labor loathed his rudderless leadership both prior to and after 9-11. Conspiracy theorists link him to a Wolf-inspired plot to "take down" UAL. And the "perish" letter caused all involved to circle the wagons and cast Jimmy into oblivion. For more insight into the cast of characters, "Hard Landing" by Tom Petzinger is a must-read. I've said it here before, this is a fabulous book. No doubt an updated version is on the authors' mind! __________________ Fly the Friendly Skies of United uniTED takes wing Feb 12, 2004

12-28-2001, 05:43 PM	#4
Sentinel Chicken Go-Getters Go Ozark Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: DFW/THE GREAT STATE OF TEXAS Posts: 4,167	No question 'bout it, Frank Lorenzo ranks as the darkest of evils visited upon the airline industry. Even in light of the rough times of post-deregulation in the 1980s that often called for hard/heavy handed leadership, Frankie outdid them all so well that he's been banned from the airline industry for life. That's a piece of work when the government and the industry as a whole don't want you back. It's too bad Frankie ran Don Burr off, Don Burr had a ideas he called "Precepts" that called for the proper treatment of the employees as a way to build success and profitability. Burr went on to form PeoplExpress and the irony of Continental acquiring them is striking. Some even say that Frankie's heavy handed treatment of Frontier led to it's former president, Al Feldman, to commit suicide. The old Frontier folks say that the day Al Feldman took his life he took the soul of the airline with him. Carl Icahn ranks a distant second to Lorenzo thanks to his Karabu ticketing agreement that he saddled TWA with like a dead albatross around the neck. Talk about dealing with the devil, he clearly took advantage of TWA at a dire point in their history and had it not been for Karabu, Compton might have had a fighting chance. When I was practicing in Kansas City, I got the chance to take care of a more than a handful of TWA employees and I must say I was quite impressed with the fighting spirit they displayed to keep their airline going. Hard Landing was one of the most entertaining books I've read in a while and quite the revealing look at the airline industry's boardrooms. __________________ *Piss on noise abatement!*

12-28-2001, 06:22 PM	#5
AlphaSigOU Insane Collector Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: Wylie, Texas Age: 43 Posts: 1,419	Hafta agree with ya, Dr. Chicken - Thomas Petzinger's book, Hard Landing is highly recommended, and part of my aviation library. Frank Borman wasn't too bad at Eastern, until he got into the pssing contest with the IAM and its local president, whose name I don't remember offhand. (Charlie White, right?) 'Destroying the airline in order to save it' by selling out to Lorenzo didn't help matters much, either. __________________ Chuck Corway (AlphaSigOU)* *Causa latet vis est notissima* -- the cause is hidden, the results are well known. James Bond: "I'll take the full odds on the ten, two hundred on the hard way, the limit on all the numbers, two hundred and fifty on the eleven, thank you very much." Plenty O'Toole: "Hey! You've played this game before!" James Bond: "Just once." *REMEMBER THE ALAMO!!! REMEMBER PEARL HARBOR!!! REMEMBER SEPTEMBER 11!!!!*

12-28-2001, 06:59 PM	#6
Sentinel Chicken Go-Getters Go Ozark Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: DFW/THE GREAT STATE OF TEXAS Posts: 4,167	Charlie Bryan was the head of the IAM at Eastern and was a well-known anti-management zealot. However, that's not necessarily the proximate cause of Eastern's downfall, though the militancy he inspired at Eastern sure wasn't expected by Frankie. He was planning to break the unions as he had done at Continental, but he didn't anticipate that the Eastern's unions had learned from the unions at Contintental. Toss in a real firebrand like Bryan, and the stage was set with two opposing forces led by equally passionate/obstinate leaders (Frankie vs. Charlie). At Continental Frankie took advantage of a loophole in the bankruptcy laws that allowed him to abrogate the union contracts. Unfortunately for him, Congress plugged that hole by the time he took over at Eastern. He might have broken the machinists' union alone, but he didn't count on the pilots and FAs honoring the picket lines. Like a classic greedy corporate raiding dumba, Frankie didn't deal, he went to court. And lost. And got branded "UNFIT TO RUN AN AIRLINE". But there's still a debate to this day whether or not Charlie Bryan contributed to Eastern's fall. I don't think so, despite his militancy (hell, he even freaked out the other IAM leadership), but having him at the helm of the IAM when Frankie came to town was like tossing 50 gallons of Jet-A on a fire. __________________ Piss on noise abatement!**

12-28-2001, 08:44 PM	#7
DavidMich Registered User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Back in MCO! Posts: 3,626	I used to see this guys name all over the bin walls Hey don't forget our good buddy Ron Allen (you Delta kats know whut i mean) __________________ "So if man is 5, and the devil is 6, then that must make me 7,,,this honky's gone to heaven!"

12-28-2001, 09:00 PM	#8
Jeremy Master Collector Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: BAA Indianapolis Posts: 583	This is easy! I am not sure of the spelling but I vote for Ed Beauvais from America Worst and Western Pacific. This guy can't keep airlines going. He has good ideas and then blows them! I remeber this guy talking about how Japan is the market of the future, Yeah! Maybe Tokyo, but not PHX-HNL-NGO on an old 747-200. Another guy which I am not sure of the spelling is Sid Sedyki from Grand Airways. I believe he is banned from running another airline in the U.S. __________________ One Nation under God There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth

12-28-2001, 09:33 PM	#9
DFW Senior Collector Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: BEDFORD, TX USA Age: 33 Posts: 179	Hey alpha sig, how in the world can you include Crandall in this list of losers?! American would not be what it is today if it wasn't for him!!! He did a hell of a job at AA. Maybe he wasn't the nicest of guys, but he was a freakin' genius. He turned American into one of the best global airlines, if not the best. __________________ WE NEED: MUSE AIR, TEXAS INTERNATIONAL, AND MORE BRANIFF!!!

12-28-2001, 09:40 PM	#10
hernan Senior Collector Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: CAROLINA,PUERTO RICO Age: 42 Posts: 426	The clowns from us airways. __________________ FLY SOUTHWEST. THE ONLY WAY TO FLY ! COLLECT STAR JETS. THE BEST MODELS!

12-28-2001, 09:50 PM	#11
Ozz Insane Collector Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Canada (CYVR) Age: 51 Posts: 2,763	Bob "The Knob" Milton chief anal orifice of Mapleflot for his predatory practices and the destruction of the airline industry in Canada.

12-29-2001, 04:52 PM	#13
Scott Insane Collector Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Escondido, Ca. USA Age: 50 Posts: 2,763	Huh huh huh ya talking 'bout my buddy Beavis, not Beauvais from America West? Huh huh uh huh. He's never gonna score! __________________ Fly the Friendly Skies of United uniTED takes wing Feb 12, 2004

12-30-2001, 12:34 PM	#14
DavidMich Registered User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Back in MCO! Posts: 3,626	heh heh m heh, shutup Fartknocker! heh heh heh, i get all the chicks, heh heh Damm i'm smooth! heh heh __________________ "So if man is 5, and the devil is 6, then that must make me 7,,,this honky's gone to heaven!"

12-31-2001, 01:12 AM	#15
carmy Senior Collector Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Singapore Posts: 216	What about the Air NZ guy, Gary Toomey or something. He sure screwed up Ansett big time. At least that's what I hear. __________________ http://wingssingapore.cjb.net

12-31-2001, 12:24 PM	#16
Sean1999 Ram Air TA Senior Collector Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 249	Such a nice list and soo many nice guys to choose from I would have to say Ferris in the 80's, Wolf in the early 90's, and Dip**** Goodwin in the late 90's to 01. Q-What do all 3 of these clowns have in common A- All 3 tried to and failed to Sink UAL And if history repeats itself UAL once again will recover after the damage each one of these A$$holes did to UAL Sean

01-03-2002, 03:41 PM	#18
niels Insane Collector Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: , Location, Location Posts: 1,519	Ed Acker should be on the list....... __________________ ---- BWIA West Indies 1:400 final livery MD-83; oldest liveries: Viscount, Viking, DC-3; sandy livery: A321, DC-9-30, -80, 727, 707-138, -220) 1:250 scale? No, thank you. ---------------------------

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01-03-2002, 08:57 PM	#19
Wingman Registered User Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Bangor, ME Age: 34 Posts: 429	If you want to get historical about it, then I would add the following names: 1) Harding Lawerance 2) George T. Seawell 3) C.E. Meyer 4) William Franke What do you think? ______________________________________ WE NEED A TWA B747SP!!!!!

01-04-2002, 12:41 PM	#20
L-1011-200F Collector Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 55	Frank Lorenzo is the winner !!! -200F