Boeing 717

ruben · 12-26-2001, 12:19 AM

Does anyone know the faith of this program in Long Beach?
I had heard that Boeing will likely shut down the 717 very soon.

Sentinel Chicken · 12-26-2001, 09:53 AM

Ruben, I've read that at the last minute Boeing has decided to keep the 717 production line open, but at a much reduced level. They consulted with current customers and potential customers as well, and much to their surprise there's still quite a bit of interest, particularly from the DC-9/MD-80 operators, in future 717 purchases if travel picks up as expected through 2002.

I'm suspecting that a major carrier will likely be announcing a 717 order sometime in 2002. It usually takes a significantly-sized order to change Boeing's mind. No word yet, though, on who's got Boeing changing their mind.

Cadavre on a stick · 12-26-2001, 03:29 PM

Ruben, I believe the "faith" of the program in Long Beach is Roman Catholic. I heard the workers there don't eat meat on Friday during Lent and they go to confession before receiving eucharist.

Sentinel Chicken · 12-26-2001, 03:32 PM

And production goals that are not met are punished with a ruler across the knuckles.

15 years in the Catholic school system, including college. Sister Mary Katherine, man could she swing a yardstick. If she had a Louisville Slugger in her hands she could have given Barry Bonds a run for the money......

tdh8192 · 12-27-2001, 10:45 AM

Some of the most sadistic somesabitches I've ever met in life were Catholic nuns. I don't know if that lifestyle attracts people like that or turns them into that, but they were cruel people, let me tell you. Good riddance to the Catholic church, I say.

Oh, and on the 717 topic, I say great news!

Wingman · 12-27-2001, 01:47 PM

Unfortunately, I believe that the B717 is the wrong aircraft at the wrong time.

Like I said in another thread, with the new products that are being introduced by Embraer and Bombardier, I think the B717 may be history sooner rather than later.

Tony Sepanski · 12-27-2001, 07:55 PM

But it does look like it's going to be with us sooner, anyway. Customers must have done one heck of a reverse-sales job to Boeing to get them to keep it....there must be some big future orders in the wings to convince management to keep the line open. With the current regime in place, nothing with a slightly 'dim' future is being allowed to remain on the books.

----

Sister Marion -- 2nd grade - Holy Rosary Elementary School. Sadistic she-b*tch from hell. Later in life I learned she was 'asked not to return' after the school year. When's the last time you heard about a nun getting FIRED from a Catholic school teaching assignment for sadism??

Sentinel Chicken · 12-27-2001, 10:23 PM

I think we'll be seeing more of the 717 in the future. Although Wingman has a point that the larger RJs coming from Bombardier (CRJ700/900), Embraer (ERJ170/190), and Fairchild/Dornier (728JET) do encroach upon the market for the 717 from the capacity standpoint, there's an important distinction from the 717 and those new larger RJs- they're STILL regional jets and the 717 isn't considered a regional jet by the pilots unions. As such, an airline here in the US can only have so many RJs thanks to scope clauses. Why does the US matter? Simple, North America, particularly the US market, is the single biggest market for commercial airframe manufacturers. A significant portion of the total passenger air-miles flown in the entire world is right here in the US.

As such, an airline here in the US looking to cut back on capacity, add frequency, or open new markets can opt for the 717 without running afoul the scope clauses in the pilot contracts. The 717 is a mainline jet, pure and simple, that offers some of the cost-effectiveness and lower capacities of the larger RJs.

Midwest Express and AirTran went with the 717 as well as an upgrade from the venerable ol' DC-9. Current DC-9 operators looking for improved economics without drastic changes and current MD-80/90 operators looking for a cut in capacity as well as improved economics might find the 717 the right airplane. When AirTran put the 717 into service, they saw their fuel costs drop nearly 30% and they aren't shy to point out where that savings came from- the 717.

Airlines today have cut capacity by cutting back frequency on routes. Inevitably, though, consumer demand is going to push them to add frequency again as air travel picks up. Adding a smaller aircraft than what was there before might be a cost-effective way to do it, and doing it with the 717 keeps you clear of scope clauses.

*And as for those nuns, I did know one really cool nun, who was my pre-med advisor in college. She'd been a professor at my college some 30 years and had been sending graduates to medical schools for so long, she was prepping the children of doctors she'd helped get into med school years ago. She was soft spoken yet firm and always had words of encouragement as she sat and talked with you before an interview with a medical school. She died the year after I got into med school, so that made my class her last one. Bummer, she could down a beer with the best of us as well.

Travelin' Man · 12-27-2001, 10:53 PM

Maybe the new Hawaiian Airlines will order 20 or more new 717's to replace the 732 fleet of Aloha?

HNL-Chris · 12-28-2001, 03:30 AM

Order twenty 717's to replace the Aloha 732's...not likely. At best four or five. Interisland wing tip to wing tip flying is about to be a thing of the past.

Stanman · 01-04-2002, 05:24 PM

Well I'm glad Boeing decided to keep the 717. Heck they killed off everything else that was good at McDD commercial wise. I also think there's a bright future for the 717. Most of the customers who bought seem very pleased with the aircraft and the fact that they're keeping it open must mean that there's an expected market coming or else they would have found a way to kill it.

By the way Chicken, are you a UD alumni? Amazing school which had a equally even more amazing premed advisor if all the tales are true.

justin · 01-04-2002, 05:32 PM

I think another problem is the A318. Whilst the 717 is essentially a stand alone product, Airbus is doing a hard sell job pitching the A318 to existing baby bus customers, it's quite an advantage. The new super RJ's from Bombardier, Embraer and Fairchild/Dornier could make a major dent in the sales of both Airbus and Boeing, here in Europe at least several airlines are committed to aircraft like the ERJ170 for main line routes.

Justin

Chansen · 01-04-2002, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by HNL-Chris
Order twenty 717's to replace the Aloha 732's...not likely. At best four or five. Interisland wing tip to wing tip flying is about to be a thing of the past.

What about noise regulations even with hushkits the 732 is still loud compared to the 717. Most Islanders will not like that! About four years ago I was at Mauna Lani and a DC-9-50 of Hawaiian's was heading to Hilo I looked up due to noise reverberation from the jets. The same for the 732.

I hope the new Hawaiian or Aloha has a fleet make up of 737-700, 717-200 and 767-300.

The 737-700 can still be used to the Atoll's, Christmas and places like SNA! 767 for bulk routes and 717's for InterIsland

niels · 01-05-2002, 10:46 AM

On another forum there is a report that AA has just parked all the 717s and furloughed the pilots.........

12-26-2001, 12:19 AM	#1
ruben Collector Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Los Angeles, CA USA Posts: 113	Boeing 717 Does anyone know the faith of this program in Long Beach? I had heard that Boeing will likely shut down the 717 very soon.

12-26-2001, 09:53 AM	#2
Sentinel Chicken Go-Getters Go Ozark Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: DFW/THE GREAT STATE OF TEXAS Posts: 4,167	Ruben, I've read that at the last minute Boeing has decided to keep the 717 production line open, but at a much reduced level. They consulted with current customers and potential customers as well, and much to their surprise there's still quite a bit of interest, particularly from the DC-9/MD-80 operators, in future 717 purchases if travel picks up as expected through 2002. I'm suspecting that a major carrier will likely be announcing a 717 order sometime in 2002. It usually takes a significantly-sized order to change Boeing's mind. No word yet, though, on who's got Boeing changing their mind. __________________ *Piss on noise abatement!*

12-26-2001, 03:32 PM	#4
Sentinel Chicken Go-Getters Go Ozark Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: DFW/THE GREAT STATE OF TEXAS Posts: 4,167	And production goals that are not met are punished with a ruler across the knuckles. 15 years in the Catholic school system, including college. Sister Mary Katherine, man could she swing a yardstick. If she had a Louisville Slugger in her hands she could have given Barry Bonds a run for the money...... __________________ *Piss on noise abatement!*

12-27-2001, 10:45 AM	#5
tdh8192 Mmmm... pep'roni pizza Join Date: Apr 2000 Posts: 3,241	Some of the most sadistic somesabitches I've ever met in life were Catholic nuns. I don't know if that lifestyle attracts people like that or turns them into that, but they were cruel people, let me tell you. Good riddance to the Catholic church, I say. Oh, and on the 717 topic, I say great news! __________________ - Tom

12-27-2001, 10:23 PM	#8
Sentinel Chicken Go-Getters Go Ozark Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: DFW/THE GREAT STATE OF TEXAS Posts: 4,167	I think we'll be seeing more of the 717 in the future. Although Wingman has a point that the larger RJs coming from Bombardier (CRJ700/900), Embraer (ERJ170/190), and Fairchild/Dornier (728JET) do encroach upon the market for the 717 from the capacity standpoint, there's an important distinction from the 717 and those new larger RJs- they're STILL regional jets and the 717 isn't considered a regional jet by the pilots unions. As such, an airline here in the US can only have so many RJs thanks to scope clauses. Why does the US matter? Simple, North America, particularly the US market, is the single biggest market for commercial airframe manufacturers. A significant portion of the total passenger air-miles flown in the entire world is right here in the US. As such, an airline here in the US looking to cut back on capacity, add frequency, or open new markets can opt for the 717 without running afoul the scope clauses in the pilot contracts. The 717 is a mainline jet, pure and simple, that offers some of the cost-effectiveness and lower capacities of the larger RJs. Midwest Express and AirTran went with the 717 as well as an upgrade from the venerable ol' DC-9. Current DC-9 operators looking for improved economics without drastic changes and current MD-80/90 operators looking for a cut in capacity as well as improved economics might find the 717 the right airplane. When AirTran put the 717 into service, they saw their fuel costs drop nearly 30% and they aren't shy to point out where that savings came from- the 717. Airlines today have cut capacity by cutting back frequency on routes. Inevitably, though, consumer demand is going to push them to add frequency again as air travel picks up. Adding a smaller aircraft than what was there before might be a cost-effective way to do it, and doing it with the 717 keeps you clear of scope clauses. And as for those nuns, I did know one really cool nun, who was my pre-med advisor in college. She'd been a professor at my college some 30 years and had been sending graduates to medical schools for so long, she was prepping the children of doctors she'd helped get into med school years ago. She was soft spoken yet firm and always had words of encouragement as she sat and talked with you before an interview with a medical school. She died the year after I got into med school, so that made my class her last one. Bummer, she could down a beer with the best of us as well. __________________ Piss on noise abatement!*

12-26-2001, 03:29 PM	#3
Cadavre on a stick Master Collector Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Sin Jose, Ca. USA Posts: 632	Ruben, I believe the "faith" of the program in Long Beach is Roman Catholic. I heard the workers there don't eat meat on Friday during Lent and they go to confession before receiving eucharist.

12-27-2001, 01:47 PM	#6
Wingman Registered User Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Bangor, ME Age: 34 Posts: 429	Unfortunately, I believe that the B717 is the wrong aircraft at the wrong time. Like I said in another thread, with the new products that are being introduced by Embraer and Bombardier, I think the B717 may be history sooner rather than later.

12-27-2001, 07:55 PM	#7
Tony Sepanski Master Collector Join Date: May 2000 Location: Seattle, WA, USA Posts: 798	But it does look like it's going to be with us sooner, anyway. Customers must have done one heck of a reverse-sales job to Boeing to get them to keep it....there must be some big future orders in the wings to convince management to keep the line open. With the current regime in place, nothing with a slightly 'dim' future is being allowed to remain on the books. ---- Sister Marion -- 2nd grade - Holy Rosary Elementary School. Sadistic she-b*tch from hell. Later in life I learned she was 'asked not to return' after the school year. When's the last time you heard about a nun getting FIRED from a Catholic school teaching assignment for sadism??

12-27-2001, 10:53 PM	#9
Travelin' Man Insane Collector Join Date: May 2000 Location: Aspen USA!!! Posts: 1,919	Maybe the new Hawaiian Airlines will order 20 or more new 717's to replace the 732 fleet of Aloha?

12-28-2001, 03:30 AM	#10
HNL-Chris Insane Collector Join Date: May 2000 Location: Honolulu, HI/Denver, CO USA Age: 24 Posts: 2,087	HA 717 Order twenty 717's to replace the Aloha 732's...not likely. At best four or five. Interisland wing tip to wing tip flying is about to be a thing of the past. __________________ To visit Chris and Jack's 1/400 & 1/500 photo albums at, Click here or our web site at http://www.hnl-chris.com

01-04-2002, 05:24 PM	#11
Stanman Senior Collector Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Waxahachie, Texas, USA Posts: 426	Well I'm glad Boeing decided to keep the 717. Heck they killed off everything else that was good at McDD commercial wise. I also think there's a bright future for the 717. Most of the customers who bought seem very pleased with the aircraft and the fact that they're keeping it open must mean that there's an expected market coming or else they would have found a way to kill it. By the way Chicken, are you a UD alumni? Amazing school which had a equally even more amazing premed advisor if all the tales are true.

01-04-2002, 05:32 PM	#12
justin Insane Collector Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 2,005	I think another problem is the A318. Whilst the 717 is essentially a stand alone product, Airbus is doing a hard sell job pitching the A318 to existing baby bus customers, it's quite an advantage. The new super RJ's from Bombardier, Embraer and Fairchild/Dornier could make a major dent in the sales of both Airbus and Boeing, here in Europe at least several airlines are committed to aircraft like the ERJ170 for main line routes. Justin

01-05-2002, 10:46 AM	#14
niels Insane Collector Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: , Location, Location Posts: 1,519	On another forum there is a report that AA has just parked all the 717s and furloughed the pilots......... __________________ ---- BWIA West Indies 1:400 final livery MD-83; oldest liveries: Viscount, Viking, DC-3; sandy livery: A321, DC-9-30, -80, 727, 707-138, -220) 1:250 scale? No, thank you. ---------------------------

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